MTL will be a better product than Raptor, I agree. I think It will be better than Phoenix too in some things and comparable in others.
Well the projection slides said otherwise, and so far there has nothing that supports a higher performance gain.
True. If Intel screws-up ARL, it's actually over for them. They'll lose all respect and may never bounce back. Well, truth is, they don't command much respect even now. And parts like RPL-R only makes things even worse.
Well, the projection slides were discussed before as it was generally agreed upon that it may not reflect final performance as it lacks context.
During his time at Intel:
There have been zero slides that substantiate your claim so far. The only slides we have are from Igor and an user in this forums. Everything else's, including our alleged resident leaker's info, are only farts in the wind.
Unfortunately for you, people in this forum are usually well informed and don't deal with farts.
Well unfortunately, the general consensus both here and twitter is rather bleak toward arrow lake. And ease off on the animosity, I'm merely saying what's circling around. And if you want to talk about leaks from lenovo I'm all ears.
I’d be happy to talk leaks out of Lenovo but far as I know those leaks don’t contain any solid info. As far as twitter I completely disregard majority of the info since most of the prominent leakers are AMD super fans.
Well Siliconfly keeps insisting on higher performance gain even though all existing evidence plus leaks indicate otherwise. If you read my posts they are actually grounded in reality.
None of the ARL leaks so far are credible enough to be taken seriously. They either lack context or mere speculations or are not trustworthy enough. Same goes with the "leakers". Always trace the leaks to the source.
That leaked Intel slide seemed pretty legit, even if it was using a PL2 value (250W) that we now know won't be in the final product (more likely to be PL2 = 177W).
That looks more to me like a TSMC silicon limitation. If Intel could push it to 250W, why wouldn't it?
"Respect"? Respect of the niche DIY builders community? The rest of the whole x86 market is commanded by OEMs/hyperscalers with their massive orders. Intel will be fine since it can always flood the market with *something*.
That leaked slide did look legit, yet AFAIK it lacked context: we did not know if the ARL estimate was final target. It was still a problem though, as ARL needs to be a generational upgrade like ADL was.
Not only a node limitation, but also possibly a tile design limitation. Monolithic designs handle heat dissipation better, on top of that the tiled design may be subject to influence from thermal effects (expansion, contraction) which may impose further temperature limits. All this can (not will) lead to reduced efficiency in heat dissipation, leading to a lower max power target.
We don't know if that slide pertained to N3B or 20a compute tiles.
Possibly because some exec out there wanted reassurance they are on track. You put the buggy early ES estimate to reassure some nervous manager they won't miss they next holiday bonus. It's all speculation though, like many other partial leaks about ES performance it helps us set the lower bound for performance, helps us very little with the upper bound.
ARL should have looked better @ 177W relative to RPL. In fact it should get better and better as it moves down the power curve.
Well that's the rub, in a lot of media venues Arrow Lake-S @ 177W will be compared to Raptor Lake-S @ 250W. And that's not fair in a lot of ways, but such is the state of tech journalism.
It is possible if Intel was confident that there was no way AMD could surpass their "world class engineering". Internally, they probably figured that ADL would demolish AMD and before it could get up again, the meagre 10% IPC uplift of ARL would finish them off and send them back into the sad Bulldozer era of embarrassing struggles. ADL/ARL designs were finalized years before Intel could even imagine something like Zen 3 eating their lunch. Now the same thing is supposed to repeat with Zen 5 and later on, with Zen 7.
Idea/draft level design starts usually 4-6 years before release. So even at that super high level stage, Intel knew exactly the performance of Rome and the AMD roadmap.
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