Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[eek2121]

IMO the article is garbage anyways because they are attempting to frame this as MCM vs monolithic, but it isn’t, it is purely about die size and die characteristics. Do you think if I take my custom design to TSMC they are going to ask me if it is MCM or not? No, they are going to give me a quote and call it a day.

Intel and AMD both know the cost + benefits of both approaches. We see the direction they are going in.

 

[cortexa99]

Still A0. And it's still far away from 6Ghz rumor

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540262023145000960

these guys test it

Raptor Lake抢先驾到，13代酷睿CPU前瞻测试！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

ES的测试成绩不作准，仅供参考。, 视频播放量 116712、弹幕量 321、点赞数 2653、投硬币枚数 175、收藏人数 271、转发人数 334, 视频作者 超能网, 作者简介 超能网, 科技生活第一站...

www.bilibili.com

 

[nicalandia]

Still A0. And it's still far away from 6Ghz rumor

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540262023145000960

these guys test it

Raptor Lake抢先驾到，13代酷睿CPU前瞻测试！_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

ES的测试成绩不作准，仅供参考。, 视频播放量 116712、弹幕量 321、点赞数 2653、投硬币枚数 175、收藏人数 271、转发人数 334, 视频作者 超能网, 作者简介 超能网, 科技生活第一站...

www.bilibili.com

13th Gen Core Raptor Lake Performance Preview
20% increase in multi-thread performance at the same frequency of 3.8 Ghz

[视频]13代酷睿Raptor Lake性能预览：同频下多线程性能提升20% - 超能网

超能网（Expreview）专注于为主流科技产品提供全新视角的资讯，专注于100%高价值原创内容的创造，专注于最真实的体验式报道。

www.expreview.com

"In terms of games, the performance of the 13th generation ES seems to be slightly weaker than the 12th generation of the same frequency, but most of the gaps are small and within the error range. "

 

[dullard]

13th Gen Core Raptor Lake Performance Preview
20% increase in multi-thread performance at the same frequency of 3.8 Ghz
View attachment 63506

[视频]13代酷睿Raptor Lake性能预览：同频下多线程性能提升20% - 超能网

超能网（Expreview）专注于为主流科技产品提供全新视角的资讯，专注于100%高价值原创内容的创造，专注于最真实的体验式报道。

www.expreview.com

"In terms of games, the performance of the 13th generation ES seems to be slightly weaker than the 12th generation of the same frequency, but most of the gaps are small and within the error range. "

Since I can't read much of that, is it comparing 65 W Raptor Lake to 125 W Alder Lake?

 

[nicalandia]

Since I can't read much of that, is it comparing 65 W Raptor Lake to 125 W Alder Lake?

No, it's comparing 12900K vs 13900K ES(A0) at ISO Speed(not ISO Power) of 3.8 Ghz to make IPC comparisons.

 

[igor_kavinski]

No, it's comparing 12900K vs 13900K ES(A0) at ISO Speed(not ISO Power) of 3.8 Ghz to make IPC comparisons.

If final silicon performs like that, boy is Intel in trouble!

 

[nicalandia]

If final silicon performs like that, boy is Intel in trouble!

Well if they push this CPU(13900K) to 5.5 Ghz All core this beast will be pumping 38,000 Points in CBR23 and that is what is expected from a stock 7950X as well(38,000 points) but with much better thermals and OC headroom, also the gaming performance should be in favor of the 7950X

 

[igor_kavinski]

Intel processors are the most popular CPUs for desktops and laptops in the world.

You left out expensive, power hungry and mostly non-upgradable. And oh yeah, don't offer affordable ECC RAM setup option. Most important, lacking in performance per dollar and TCO for use cases involving lots of threads and PCIe lanes.

 

[dullard]

Geekbench 5

Rapydmark using the High setting
RapydMark for Windows (frikiscape.com)

Any other benchmarks that you would be interested in running for comparison with your older hardware.

I'll put benchmarks in the Alder Lake thread when I get a chance. They will depend a lot on cooling performance of the machine, since that is a big issue with tiny computers. Initial benchmark tests before I have had the chance to clean up the HP junk or optimize anything: 7x to 13x faster than the computer that I was replacing (Lenovo Q190 with i3-2365M).

 

[scannall]

Intel processors are the most popular CPUs for desktops and laptops in the world. They're offered in a range of model families, with names like Core, Xeon, Pentium, and Celeron. They come in multiple generations like 9th, 10th, and 11th, also called Coffee Lake, Comet/Ice Lake, and Rocket/Tiger Lake.

Seriously? You want your very first post on a tech forum to be that?

 

[IntelUser2000]

You can also add to that that ASML has yet to build a production 450mm machine and neither Intel nor TSCM will be fielding one before the end of the decade... So their 25 mm x 32 mm 800 mm^2 Monolithic die is just a pipe dream

As someone else said, wafer sizes aren't a limit.

Nvidia already made a chip that's more than 850mm2 in size. So, only they'll be potentially in trouble?

The article does illustrate that it's not a straight porting or simply breaking up monolithic dies. It's possible a poorly executed design might end up having that issue.

If final silicon performs like that, boy is Intel in trouble!

Yea so a good chance that it's not final silicon.

 

[Vattila]

[@nelisonOnta] You want your very first post on a tech forum to be that?

The user name is an anagram of "loneOnanist", so it is probably a self-occupied troll.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The user name is an anagram of "loneOnanist", so it is probably a self-occupied troll.

I keep learning new stuff here that I never knew in 40 years on this planet!

 

[lightmanek]

I thought he is an Intel PR AI machine which escaped their lab.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I thought he is an Intel PR AI machine which escaped their lab.

Not escaped. Let loose more likely.

 

[pakotlar]

No, it's comparing 12900K vs 13900K ES(A0) at ISO Speed(not ISO Power) of 3.8 Ghz to make IPC comparisons.

Not true, base speeds are different (<<50% alder lake), boost is same only on P-cores, but again will be different in practice because of power limit differences.

“””
Do note that the P-Cores for this engineering sample ran at a base clock of 1.4 GHz and a max boost clock of 3.8 GHz (P-Cores) while the E-Cores were split with 2 clusters running at 2.8 GHz and the other 2 clusters running at 1.0 GHz so we can already see some inconsistency in the clock speeds … In terms of performance, the single-core performance of Intel's Raptor Lake Core i9-13900 CPU is slower than the Alder Lake Core i9-12900K chip. This is because the Alder Lake CPU also has the full backing of an optimized BIOS and a higher TDP limit versus the Non-K Raptor Lake chip. And also, as said before, the clock speeds for the Raptor Lake CPU aren't stable.
“””
- https://wccftech.com/intel-raptor-l...aster-than-core-i9-12900k-in-multi-threading/

 

[Markfw]

*** Quote removed as user is no longer here. ***

 

[DrMrLordX]

If final silicon performs like that, boy is Intel in trouble!

Eh. It's an ES. Sure they fixed them both to 3.8 GHz but something tells me the Raptor Lake isn't going to perform that way in an identical test at release.

You left out expensive, power hungry and mostly non-upgradable. And oh yeah, don't offer affordable ECC RAM setup option. Most important, lacking in performance per dollar and TCO for use cases involving lots of threads and PCIe lanes.

Seriously? You want your very first post on a tech forum to be that?

You're probably replying to a bot or astroturfer.

 

[nicalandia]

Yep, but Sapphire Rapid is at least 3 years away. Stuff could change.

Amazing.. about 6 Years Away from 2017....

 

[moinmoin]

View attachment 63654

Amazing.. about 6 Years Away from 2017....

Honestly the amount of years isn't what gets me. It's that SPR once was supposed to be leaner.

 

[nicalandia]

Honestly the amount of years isn't what gets me. It's that SPR once was supposed to be leaner.

Well Sapphire Rapids vs ROME than Sapphire Rapids vs Genoa. It's a different ball game

It got Fatter with New and "Unnecessary" instructions(trying to carve niche market?). It's larger than it's desktop counterpart and it's bee delayed.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It's that SPR once was supposed to be leaner.

It's all AMD's fault! They scared Intel into over-engineering SPR

And the delays! How can they release anything on schedule with AMD constantly beating them to the punch? AMD needs to slow down

 

[nicalandia]

And the delays! How can they release anything on schedule with AMD constantly beating them to the punch? AMD needs to slow down

If anything AMD has been slowed down due to the Pandemic and the Pandemic induced Chip shortages. This in turn has helped Intel to keep market share lead even if their CPUs are lacking on TCO and Performance metrics.

 

[Markfw]

Question: We have seen a lot of dies and a couple of ES chips, but when will we see any real retail silicon from Intel, server, desktop or HEDT ?

 

[IntelUser2000]

My current expectation of client chips based on reliable leakers(read: NOT MLID, RGT, Adored)

Intel 7
Raptorlake-S: October 2022
Raptorlake-P/H: Jan 2023

Intel 4

Meteorlake-S Low/Mid: Q1 2024
Meteorlake-M 5W: Mid 2023
Meteorlake-P/H: Jan 2024

Intel 20A
Arrowlake-S: Mar 2024