Wasn't both?
Who wants a new slower cpu because it has one Ghz less?
One way to improve yield is to reduce frequency and/or increase voltage (which also increases power draw).
Wasn't both?
Who wants a new slower cpu because it has one Ghz less?
Are you saying their parametric yields were fine but their functional yields were in the gutter?Frequency hasn't really been the problem, it's always been about yield. Of course if you are actually intending to sell the product, you need to make sure you get enough chips that can pass the validation.
Are you saying their parametric yields were fine but their functional yields were in the gutter?
This article, over 3 years old, is still quite relevant: https://www.pcmag.com/news/intels-10nm-process-its-more-than-just-chip-scaling:The problem was clearly both clock and yield issue. I mean Intel expected themselves from the beginning that the first 10(+) version has a much worse performance than 14++ and only the second 10+(+) is on par with 14++, as a result ICL-U singlethread wasn't better than CML-U. Possibly there is still a small performance gap but It looks quite good for TGL-H when TGL-U can boost up to 4.8 Ghz even if it's a TVB boost, we should see a 5.0 Ghz boost next year.
(I did find it interesting—and a little worrisome—that, although these charts show the 10nm nodes clearly requiring less power than the 14nm nodes, they suggest that the first 10nm nodes will not offer as much performance as the latest 14nm ones.)
Interesting article.This article, over 3 years old, is still quite relevant:
Interesting article.
I doubt the 15% better performance of 10nm++ vs 14nm++ will ever happen.
TGL is still only 4 cores. We'll see how far it can take us.@LightningZ71 No it won't. It was just month ago Renoir started selling. Cezanne will happen similar time next year. Tigerlake has 8-9 months before it has to go against it.
Yea I don't trust their drivers or lower level optimisation, I think it will get better with gen 12..but I still think it will under punch for its weight compared to Vega 8...in real games at least.@french toast The problem is leaks are showing Alderlake being an 8+8 product.
If they chose to, they could make a version of Alderlake with 2x 8+8 cores. But 8 Golden Cove cores are already very large on 10nm, and realistically I think they need 7nm to do so. 2x 180mm2 dies are really pushing it, and it'll need an GMIO(Graphics, Memory, IO) die on top of that. Besides, they'll lose a lot of memory latency advantages by moving to a chiplet unlike AMD.
If Xe iGPU is fast as they claim then it'll beat Renoir significantly in graphics(30-50%).
But I'm not confident of their GPU team. See I don't think its just drivers. We initially blamed graphics for X3000, but it just had crappy geometry hardware and occlusion capabilities. Those are merely high-level features they lacked. Now imagine what low level details are behind/missing on Gen 11, or possibly even Gen 12?
Whether its lack of proper leadership, company culture or experience, they are 3rd tier. It's not like in CPUs where they faltered once but came back. They NEVER had leadership in graphics.
That clockspeed may only be attainable (for longer than 3 milliseconds) in the 28W TDP configuration.Yea I don't trust their drivers or lower level optimisation, I think it will get better with gen 12..but I still think it will under punch for its weight compared to Vega 8...in real games at least.
Eventually they will catch up enough, they keep throwing money at the issue and grabbing engineers, over time the gap will be small.
I honestly think Intel's 10nm +(+) process is at the very LEAST equal to TSMC N7Pin perf/watt- if not better, a giant core like willow Cove with heaps of cache and AVX 512 Floating point units pushing to 4.8ghz in a 15w 'tdp'?.. that's very impressive indeed (if true.)
Now yields and density are firmly in TSMC's corner with N7P, else we wouldn't be stuck on 4 cores and no desktop 10nm.
Eventually they will catch up enough, they keep throwing money at the issue and grabbing engineers, over time the gap will be small.
I honestly think Intel's 10nm +(+) process is at the very LEAST equal to TSMC N7Pin perf/watt- if not better, a giant core like willow Cove with heaps of cache and AVX 512 Floating point units pushing to 4.8ghz in a 15w 'tdp'?.. that's very impressive indeed (if true.)
Intel reminds me of old Nokia in some respects, although Intel has a ha bit of making silly money even when they are not on their game.Intel has lot of money, but their execution sucks, and is not consistent. Also they have a lot of drama.
Some articles were saying that the fault is due to their culture, and its a result of the influence of its most significant CEO, Andy Grove. It points out while such culture worked under him, it doesn't with others. When a CEO is such a superstar I think the rest of the company starts droning on, and when he leaves it becomes directionless.
For a single core its not much of a perf/watt issue. U chips have top frequencies not different from 95W desktop chips.
I still think it is impressive either way, Sunny Cove sucked with clocks.. Quite an improvement if you ask me.That clockspeed may only be attainable (for longer than 3 milliseconds) in the 28W TDP configuration.
Intel reminds me of old Nokia in some respects, although Intel has a ha bit of making silly money even when they are not on their game.
It's a great improvement compared to not sucking, I completely agree.I still think it is impressive either way, Sunny Cove sucked with clocks.. Quite an improvement if you ask me.
It's a great improvement compared to not sucking, I completely agree.
They need to open up Optane DIMMs to work on all platforms.
Wow! I wonder how long it will take for us to find out if he just decided to leave Intel or actually had a personal issue. 2 years is a bit on the short side, even for Keller.It looks like Jim Keller has resigned from Intel:
This caught me by surprise. I wonder what this speaks of their future products (Ocean Cove etc.).
In he's last interview it seams he was giving some 'internal messages' like that one of the how to manage people, and the one of that an design only should lasts for 5 years and you have to do a new one after, and that 10 years is too much.It looks like Jim Keller has resigned from Intel: