Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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uzzi38 said:
Given the naming scheme (-PS) this is just gonna be a socketed version of MTL 6+8 I'd bet.
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It does seem like that is going to be true. Pretty much meshes with all the other rumors along the years. Not full desktop, but not laptop only either. Just put the laptop chip onto a socket for SFF desktops.
 
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AMDK11

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Jul 15, 2019
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CPU-Z incorrectly reads L3 capacity, core and thread counts.

GraniteRapids(Intel 3)

Each compute tile has physically 42(40 active) RedwoodCove cores/84 threads with L2 84MB (2 MB per core) + L3 168 MB (4 MB per core). L2+L3 252MB.

GraniteRapids-SP with 2 active compute tiles (LGA4677)
Physically 84(80 active, L2 160MB + 330MB(?)) RedwoodCove cores/168 threads with L2 168MB + L3 336MB. L2+L3 504MB

GraniteRapids-AP with 3 active compute tiles (LGA7529)
Physically 126(120 active, L2 240MB + L3 480MB) RedwoodCove cores/252 threads with L2 252MB + L3 504MB. L2+L3 756MB.
 
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ashFTW

ashFTW

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Sep 21, 2020
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Intel E-core Xeon line:

Sierra Forest 2024 (Intel 3) -> Clearwater Forest 2025 (Intel 18A) -> Cooper Forest 2027? (Intel 14A?)
 
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trivik12

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Jan 26, 2006
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SiliconFly said:
Looks like a mindless joke from a silly website. Sheldon -> Cooper? Douglas -> Adams?
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It came from phoronix article that references some submissions to Linux. That said its possible someone did it as a placeholder joke.

Intel "Family 6" CPU Era Coming To An End Soon: Code Suggests Cooper Forest & Adams Lake - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com www.phoronix.com


Beyond the comments of this happening "soon-ish", in cleaning up the Intel CPU ID Linux code, there are some examples that cite new CPUs in other families may be Douglas Cove / Adams Lake and Intel Sheldonmont / Cooper Forest.

The Douglas Cove and Sheldonmont core names are new disclosures unless random placeholders as are Adams Lake and Cooper Forest though they jive with Intel naming conventions. After Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake is Panther Lake, so the possibility of Adams Lake would be at least 2026 if that's indeed a real codename and would be succeeding Panther Lake. Meanwhile after the Xeon E Sierra Forest is Clearwater Forest, so Cooper Forest could potentially be the successor to Clearwater Forest. Meanwhile, based on earlier Intel Linux kernel patches, it's already known Clearwater Forest will be Family 6 Model 221 and Lunar Lake will be Family 6 Model 189. So at least through those generations Family 6 is keeping up.
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DavidC1

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Dec 29, 2023
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DrMrLordX said:
Is it going to be another situation like Cascade Lake-AP?
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It should be much more common(though that's not saying much) as the -SP is using the same basic tile setup, just less of it compared to -AP. Whereas Cascadelake was a totally different thing and not even socketable.
 
DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

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DavidC1 said:
Whereas Cascadelake was a totally different thing and not even socketable.
Click to expand...
That's why I was asking. CascadeLake-AP was a messy solution. If Granite Rapids-AP is just -SP with one more tile then it shouldn't present the same problems. Kind of makes me wonder why they're even bothering with the -AP designation for that product instead of allowing -SP to scale up to 120c.
 
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DavidC1

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DrMrLordX said:
That's why I was asking. CascadeLake-AP was a messy solution. If Granite Rapids-AP is just -SP with one more tile then it shouldn't present the same problems. Kind of makes me wonder why they're even bothering with the -AP designation for that product instead of allowing -SP to scale up to 120c.
Click to expand...
They're not the same socket though. The -AP socket is much larger at 7K pins while -SP is similar at 4k pins. The whole package is much larger and the -AP goes up to 500W while -SP stops at 360W.
 
ashFTW

ashFTW

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Sep 21, 2020
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DrMrLordX said:
That's why I was asking. CascadeLake-AP was a messy solution. If Granite Rapids-AP is just -SP with one more tile then it shouldn't present the same problems. Kind of makes me wonder why they're even bothering with the -AP designation for that product instead of allowing -SP to scale up to 120c.
Click to expand...

DavidC1 said:
They're not the same socket though. The -AP socket is much larger at 7K pins while -SP is similar at 4k pins. The whole package is much larger and the -AP goes up to 500W while -SP stops at 360W.
Click to expand...
Additionally, the Birch Stream (BS) SP socket supports 8 memory channels, while the AP supports 12. Intel sees the need for two different sockets for market segmentation reasons. BS supports both Granite Rapids (GR) and Sierra Forest (SF).

Each of the GR compute chiplet has 4 memory channels. The GR-SP contains two such chiplets, while the AP has three. Each GR compute chiplet supports up to 40 P cores.

Each of the SF compute chiplet has 8 memory channels. The SF-SP will have up to 144 E cores max using one compute chiplet, while the AP version will have up to 288 using two of these. Four memory channels on SF-AP compute chiplets are unused.

GR-AP, GR-SP, and SF-SP shown below (from HotChips ‘23):

IMG_2404.jpeg
 
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DavidC1

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ashFTW said:
Additionally, the Birch Stream (BS) SP socket supports 8 memory channels, while the AP supports 12. Intel sees the need for two different sockets for market segmentation reasons. BS supports both Granite Rapids (GR) and Sierra Forest (SF).
Click to expand...
Good point overall.

But I'd like to point out that because -SP already establishes the Tile setup, and -AP is merely an expansion of that, it's different from Cascade Lake - AP where it was a knee-jerk reaction to being severely behind the competition and ended up being a wholly different product altogether.

The AP version of Cascadelake also had more memory channels as well. 6 channels each for a total of 12. The TDP nearly doubled going from 205W on -SP to -400W on -AP, so it was just two cores on an MCM. On top of that it was BGA, so no upgradability. 400W, $10,000 chip, with no prospect of upgrading. It was an attractive product with MANY customers for sure!

If you need the extra cores, then the -AP will work better than -SP as the communication between cores happen through a much faster and lower latency EMIB interconnect versus UPI between two sockets.

This also reminds me of the Extreme Edition client chips which were Xeon MPs in the client socketed form factor and didn't last.
 
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DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

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DavidC1 said:
If you need the extra cores, then the -AP will work better than -SP as the communication between cores happen through a much faster and lower latency EMIB interconnect versus UPI between two sockets.
Click to expand...
That was perhaps the worst part about Cascade Lake-AP. Though I did not notice that Granite Rapids-AP used a larger socket and different platform. Interesting.
 
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