Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[coercitiv]

I think the internet as a whole is a hive mind that’s heavily tilted towards AMD as evidenced by what happened today. I’m literally the only person out of the ~10 people that commented in this thread that’s pointed out that they have a point about AMD’s mobile naming scheme being misleading (despite being a flawed messenger). I mean.. The first digit signifies the year it was “released” despite some of these SKUs containing Zen 2 chips that launched in 2019.

I think you're trying to fix something that ain't broken: in this forum AMD got the full treatment for their nonsensical mobile naming scheme. You're (probably) the only person in this thread who had yet to complain about it, the rest were done months ago.

Ironically, the reason AMD did not get roasted more thoroughly is the fact that Intel already had a bad naming scheme in their mobile lineup (especially during ICL/TGL era). It got so bad when they launched Tiger Lake that Intel managed to mention "4800U" more than "1185G7":

Also, you've been told already that Intel uses the same marketing trick in both their mobile and desktop lineups, even their more recent ones. You can argue the new gen chips offer better performance, but the same can be said about AMD's offering (at least in general): when they recycle older chips they usually position them lower in the stack and/or enable more compute.

Nobody here likes what AMD does with respect to naming. It's deceptive for the average consumer and annoying even for enthusiasts. What we don't like even more than that is one snake oil salesman calling out the other one. Pot calling the kettle black if you will.

Spoiler: This is textbook FUD: fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I'm glad the higher Intel execs still have a head on their shoulders and got this contained rather quickly. It would have been better if it did not get out at all, but I guess this is the price to pay if you want to make your organization more flexible and delegate more - sometimes mistakes will happen.

 

[SiliconFly]

I wonder what they will then name it?

Core Truths+? Enhanced Core Truths? Core Truths-Refresh?

Hmmm... 🤔

Core Truths 2.0 - Enhanced Super Truths

 

[DrMrLordX]

Can someone cite a worse example than calling a 2/4 CPU an i7?

Not offhand.

 

[Schmide]

Wow I thought the snake oil and car salesmen were 3rd party parities of the campaign. Never underestimate the dumb.

 

[Thunder 57]

Tech Jesus has a video out!

Watching it now but pretty awesome so far.

 

[Thunder 57]

Wow. Just destroyed Intel. That video also had slides that I am pretty sure I did not see by the time I got around to it.

 

[cebri1]

https://x.com/InstLatX64/status/1731986201349931213?s=20

 

[DrMrLordX]

Wow. Just destroyed Intel. That video also had slides that I am pretty sure I did not see by the time I got around to it.

How much did it cost them to put together that slide deck? Money not well-spent.

 

[Timorous]

AMD shares paid for the down payment on my first home. I think I can objectively view both brands for what they are.

I think the internet as a whole is a hive mind that’s heavily tilted towards AMD as evidenced by what happened today. I’m literally the only person out of the ~10 people that commented in this thread that’s pointed out that they have a point about AMD’s mobile naming scheme being misleading (despite being a flawed messenger). I mean.. The first digit signifies the year it was “released” despite some of these SKUs containing Zen 2 chips that launched in 2019.

If Apple pointed out that the camera on the Samsung Galaxy was marketed with images captured with professional cameras - would that be valid? Or does Apple get piled on and forced to remove the marketing material because something something iPhone 15 (non-pro) is basically a refreshed iPhone 14?

Neither the 7320U or 7520U contain Zen 2 chips that were released in 2019.... They are new designs using DDR5 and RDNA2 on 6nm. Yes the core zen architecture is older but in a 4c config they are pretty good at low wattages. This is evidenced by the performance difference between a steam deck and the ROG ally when both running at 15W. The Rog Ally should obliterate the steam deck with its 8c 16t Zen 4 + 12CU RDNA3 GPU compared to the deck OLEDs 4c 8t Zen 2 part with 8CU RDNA2 yet it does not. Yes the Rog Ally is often faster when running at 800p but the delta is closer to 20% with plenty of cases where performance is practically the same.

Also with the naming scheme the generation of Zen is included, it is there for all to see. Sure you can have complaints that the 7330U is a faster part than the 7520U and really that sort of thing should be tidied up, ya know by making the 7520U a Ryzen 3 7420U and then the 7330U becomes a 7430U and is faster and has a bigger number.

Intel also do the exact same thing. The 13600K is RPL but the 13600 is actually ADL and you would not know at all from looking at the name or the core count. In fact you have to check the L2 cache to see it because even in Intel Ark they obfuscate the actual underlying architecture. Or what about the 13400F, some steppings are RPL and other steppings are ADL. That is clear as mud.

AMDs mobile CPU naming scheme may not be perfect but at least that info is presented to the buyer.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yes the core zen architecture is older but in a 4c config they are pretty good at low wattages.

More importantly, they are cheap, at least from a manufacturing PoV. They do what OEMs want for their machines.

 

[Geddagod]

Neither the 7320U or 7520U contain Zen 2 chips that were released in 2019.... They are new designs using DDR5 and RDNA2 on 6nm. Yes the core zen architecture is older but in a 4c config they are pretty good at low wattages. This is evidenced by the performance difference between a steam deck and the ROG ally when both running at 15W. The Rog Ally should obliterate the steam deck with its 8c 16t Zen 4 + 12CU RDNA3 GPU compared to the deck OLEDs 4c 8t Zen 2 part with 8CU RDNA2 yet it does not. Yes the Rog Ally is often faster when running at 800p but the delta is closer to 20% with plenty of cases where performance is practically the same.

Also with the naming scheme the generation of Zen is included, it is there for all to see. Sure you can have complaints that the 7330U is a faster part than the 7520U and really that sort of thing should be tidied up, ya know by making the 7520U a Ryzen 3 7420U and then the 7330U becomes a 7430U and is faster and has a bigger number.

Intel also do the exact same thing. The 13600K is RPL but the 13600 is actually ADL and you would not know at all from looking at the name or the core count. In fact you have to check the L2 cache to see it because even in Intel Ark they obfuscate the actual underlying architecture. Or what about the 13400F, some steppings are RPL and other steppings are ADL. That is clear as mud.

AMDs mobile CPU naming scheme may not be perfect but at least that info is presented to the buyer.

AMD's mobile CPU naming scheme is much worse than Intel's current scheme. If Intel were following AMD's scheme, they would be calling CML chips "14th gen" and calling it a day. And sure you have the architecture number included in the naming scheme for AMD, but tf are general consumers going to do with that? The reality is, most people will follow the naming scheme that they have used their entire life- look at the first couple numbers for how new and shiny it is, aka 13th gen or 12th gen, or for AMD 8000 series or 7000 series, and then the sku it is in, i7 or i5 or i3.

It's insanely misleading to put the year name as the leading digit for your numbering system. Intel's system might not be objectively good either, and honestly is prob more confusing than AMD's scheme, but it certainly isn't as misleading, or tbh worse, than the scheme AMD is putting out.

And honestly, I think if the biggest complaint with Intel's naming scheme that consumers are going to whine about is RPL using ADL dies, when RPL silicon itself is like a tiny improvement over ADL, it's very telling that the naming scheme isn't that big of a deal.

People dislike Intel's marketing about AMD's naming scheme because they are being hypocrites about it, not because AMD's naming scheme is actually good.

 

[Abwx]

AMD's mobile CPU naming scheme is much worse than Intel's current scheme. If Intel were following AMD's scheme, they would be calling CML chips "14th gen" and calling it a day. And sure you have the architecture number included in the naming scheme for AMD, but tf are general consumers going to do with that? The reality is, most people will follow the naming scheme that they have used their entire life- look at the first couple numbers for how new and shiny it is, aka 13th gen or 12th gen, or for AMD 8000 series or 7000 series, and then the sku it is in, i7 or i5 or i3.

It's insanely misleading to put the year name as the leading digit for your numbering system. Intel's system might not be objectively good either, and honestly is prob more confusing than AMD's scheme, but it certainly isn't as misleading, or tbh worse, than the scheme AMD is putting out.

And honestly, I think if the biggest complaint with Intel's naming scheme that consumers are going to whine about is RPL using ADL dies, when RPL silicon itself is like a tiny improvement over ADL, it's very telling that the naming scheme isn't that big of a deal.

People dislike Intel's marketing about AMD's naming scheme because they are being hypocrites about it, not because AMD's naming scheme is actually good.

With AMD scheme at least you know if it s Zen 2, 3 or 4, for the rest you know when buying a laptop how many cores there s on the APU, that s always specified.

What about intel, is their 14th gen full line up that different from the 13th..?.
No, you ll see some 14th gen that are recycled 13th gen and no way to know about it.

And we dont even talk of branding the half legged e cores as full cores in their marketing material, at this point that s almost a fraud.

 

[Thunder 57]

...People dislike Intel's marketing about AMD's naming scheme because they are being hypocrites about it, not because AMD's naming scheme is actually good.

Show me anyone who has said the system is good. I commented on how it was a total joke when I saw they were handing out wheels to determine specs.

 

[SiliconFly]

Fascinating! This week is fun week.

Intel started it, AMD was already in it and now Apple joins the gang!

All new snake oil. New used car salesman. And all this from our beloved Apple: 8GB Mac vs 16GB Intel Laptop

Apple did actually make the foolish claim that their 8GB Macs are better than 16GB PCs and people who buy 8GB Macs don't need more RAM.

 

[Geddagod]

With AMD scheme at lesat you know if it s Zen 2, 3 or 4, for the rest you know when buying a laptop how many cores there s on the APU, that s always specified.

Non hardware inclined people aren't knowledgeable enough to care, hardware inclined people could easily just also put in the effort to google it lmao.

What about intel, is their 14th gen full line up that different from the 13th..?.
No, you ll see some 14th gen that are recycled 13th gen and no way to know about it.

This is easily way less deceitful than selling modified Zen 2 products as part of a brand new generation. "Refresh" generations as a whole are just way less hurtful to a consumer as what AMD's current mobile naming scheme allows.

And we dont even talk of branding the half legged e cores as full cores in their marketing material, at this point that s almost a fraud.

Don't know why people whine about this when like every major retailer who sells RPL/ADL desktop chips puts the P and E core breakdown right beside the higher core count as well.
Bestbuy:

Amazon:

Newegg:

And AMD uses -C cores mobile processors. Looks like they aren't differentiating it either though?
Anyway, if it bothers you so much that Inttel is counting... cores as cores? Then maybe you can startt a class action law suit on it. I have a 12900h, can't wait to get the money that's rightfully owed to me cuz Intel misled me, that dastardly company shakes fist into the sky

Fraud my butt lmaoo

Show me anyone who has said the system is good.

... uh I literally said that's what people aren't saying? Did you not see the "not" infront of that statement?
And honestly, idk, if your so pressed about the way I ended my paragraph, why didn't you @Timorous and ask him "who said AMD's naming system is perfect" when he said:

AMDs mobile CPU naming scheme may not be perfect but at least that info is presented to the buyer.

?

 

[Thunder 57]

Non hardware inclined people aren't knowledgeable enough to care, hardware inclined people could easily just also put in the effort to google it lmao.

This is easily way less deceitful than selling modified Zen 2 products as part of a brand new generation. "Refresh" generations as a whole are just way less hurtful to a consumer as what AMD's current mobile naming scheme allows.

Don't know why people whine about this when like every major retailer who sells RPL/ADL desktop chips puts the P and E core breakdown right beside the higher core count as well.
Bestbuy:
View attachment 89986
Amazon:
View attachment 89985
Newegg:
View attachment 89987
And AMD uses -C cores mobile processors. Looks like they aren't differentiating it either though?
Anyway, if it bothers you so much that Inttel is counting... cores as cores? Then maybe you can startt a class action law suit on it. I have a 12900h, can't wait to get the money that's rightfully owed to me cuz Intel misled me, that dastardly company shakes fist into the sky

Fraud my butt lmaoo


... uh I literally said that's what people aren't saying? Did you not see the "not" infront of that statement?
And honestly, idk, if your so pressed about the way I ended my paragraph, why didn't you @Timorous and ask him "who said AMD's naming system is perfect" when he said:

?

Misread that. It sounded like you were saying that people bashed Intel but liked AMD's scheme. The hypocrite part if you will.

 

[Abwx]

Non hardware inclined people aren't knowledgeable enough to care, hardware inclined people could easily just also put in the effort to google it lmao.

This is easily way less deceitful than selling modified Zen 2 products as part of a brand new generation. "Refresh" generations as a whole are just way less hurtful to a consumer as what AMD's current mobile naming scheme allows.

You mean that s like selling ADL N with only e cores..?..

AMD often used lower perf chips for its lower segment, in this case that s not a 4000 series Zen 2 but a new design, whatever if it use a 3 years old uarch.

Don't know why people whine about this when like every major retailer who sells RPL/ADL desktop chips puts the P and E core breakdown right beside the higher core count as well.

But they dont say what is the (big) difference between P an E because as you stated :

Non hardware inclined people aren't knowledgeable enough to care, hardware inclined people could easily just also put in the effort to google it lmao.

And AMD uses -C cores mobile processors. Looks like they aren't differentiating it either though?
Anyway, if it bothers you so much that Inttel is counting... cores as cores? Then maybe you can startt a class action law suit on it. I have a 12900h, can't wait to get the money that's rightfully owed to me cuz Intel misled me, that dastardly company shakes fist into the sky

Fraud my butt lmaoo




?

As said they dont say that E cores are weaker ones, AMD c cores on the other hand have same perf as regular Zen 4 cores, they are used in MT when the chips couldnt clock at high frequencies even if these were only regular Z 4 cores.

Anyway it s curious that Intel launched this deffamation campaign while they rather should be concentrated on their soon to come new design, something telle me that it wont cut the mustard, otherwise their marketing dpt would be currently yelling from the roofs that they have some wonder on hands...

 

[lightisgood]

Clearly, MI300 is poor product.
In next year, Gaudi 3 should be the top of AI chip or only competing product for B100.

Pat canceled Rialto Bridge and concentrated enargy on AI chip.
This is one of the win for Pat as CEO.

 

[Geddagod]

You mean that s like selling ADL N with only e cores..?..

It's almost as if they label those parts specifically as "N100" with the N literally infront of the numbers lmao

AMD often used lower perf chips for its lower segment, in this case that s not a 4000 series Zen 2 but a new design, whatever if it use a 3 years old uarch

That's fine. But people will go "wow look at this brand new 7000 series CPU, must be great, and it's an i5 tier too wow, and it ends up being Zen 2 lol

But they dont say what is the (big) difference between P an E because as you stated :

My bad the listing isn't 12900k (8 Performance cores with AVX-512 and larger area and higher clocks + 16 E-cores with no private L2, less performance per core with greater perf/area and shares a ringbus stop).
This isn't the gotcha you think it is bud.

As said they dont say that E cores are weaker ones,

Not in the tittle, but oh wow, lets scroll down a tiny bit:
Amazon:

Newegg:

Bestbuy doesn't have one AFAIK, but literally on the buying page for the other two, it's listed below. Bestbuy in general just doesn't give as many specs/advertising of the info of the processer as these other two retailers tbh.
But again, go file a class action lawsuit if you think this is so much worse lol. This is fraud right?

AMD c cores on the other hand have same perf as regular Zen 4 cores, they are used in MT when the chips couldnt clock at high frequencies even if these were only regular Z 4 cores.

Oh if you want to use that argument, the -C cores actually have higher perf/watt in those power levels. So why won't AMD let consumers know they stuck 4 substandard cores with 2 high perf/watt small cores in their CPUs? What frauds /s

Anyway it s curious that Intel launched this deffamation campaign while they rather should be concentrated on their soon to come new design, something telle me that it wont cut the mustard, otherwise their marketing dpt would be currently yelling from the roofs that they have some wonder on hands...

The only thing that is telling you MTL won't "cut the mustard" is your mommy Su vigil in your bedroom 🤡 lmaooo

 

[Geddagod]

Clearly, MI300 is poor product.

Bro what are you on lol

In next year, Gaudi 3 should be the top of AI chip or only competing product for B100.

LMAOOO

Pat canceled Rialto Bridge and concentrated enargy on AI chip.

LMAOOOOOOO

This is one of the win for Pat as CEO.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
be fr

 

[Hitman928]

Clearly, MI300 is poor product.
In next year, Gaudi 3 should be the top of AI chip or only competing product for B100.

Pat canceled Rialto Bridge and concentrated enargy on AI chip.
This is one of the win for Pat as CEO.

You do realize that

1) Gaudi2 is way behind H100 for training.
2) MI300X can scale much better than both.

Right?

 

[Geddagod]

Has to be bait lol

 

[Abwx]

That's fine. But people will go "wow look at this brand new 7000 series CPU, must be great, and it's an i5 tier too wow, and it ends up being Zen 2 lol

That s only for 4C/8T SKUs, so in cheap laptops whose not that much is expected.

Oh if you want to use that argument, the -C cores actually have higher perf/watt in those power levels. So why won't AMD let consumers know they stuck 4 substandard cores with 2 high perf/watt small cores in their CPUs? What frauds /s

What Inel is doing is as if AMD stuck Zen 2 without SMT and Zen 4 cores within a same SKU, think about it...

The only thing that is telling you MTL won't "cut the mustard" is your mommy Su vigil in your bedroom 🤡 lmaooo

Guess that i did hit a nerve...
If MTL was that wonderfull we would know about it currently, Intel s marketing dpt would be occupied spreading infos about the thing rather than smearing AMD, seems that they are keeping mum on the subject for a good reason, if MLID is half right then it will barely match a 7840U/HS, the graph he displayed show 25-30% better perf/Watt at isoperf for MTL in respect of a 13900H...

 

[Timorous]

AMD's mobile CPU naming scheme is much worse than Intel's current scheme. If Intel were following AMD's scheme, they would be calling CML chips "14th gen" and calling it a day. And sure you have the architecture number included in the naming scheme for AMD, but tf are general consumers going to do with that? The reality is, most people will follow the naming scheme that they have used their entire life- look at the first couple numbers for how new and shiny it is, aka 13th gen or 12th gen, or for AMD 8000 series or 7000 series, and then the sku it is in, i7 or i5 or i3.

It's insanely misleading to put the year name as the leading digit for your numbering system. Intel's system might not be objectively good either, and honestly is prob more confusing than AMD's scheme, but it certainly isn't as misleading, or tbh worse, than the scheme AMD is putting out.

And honestly, I think if the biggest complaint with Intel's naming scheme that consumers are going to whine about is RPL using ADL dies, when RPL silicon itself is like a tiny improvement over ADL, it's very telling that the naming scheme isn't that big of a deal.

People dislike Intel's marketing about AMD's naming scheme because they are being hypocrites about it, not because AMD's naming scheme is actually good.

General consumers will get sold a product by a sales rep in a store or they will ask their tech literate family member to help them choose something for their needs.

More tech literate people will know the difference just like they know the difference between the S95B and S95C and S90C. Or that going above the 77" G3 is pointless.

Intel obfuscates the architecture used in their products. The 13400KF uses both RPL and ADL and it depends on the stepping as to which you get, just like the 55 and 65 S90C use both Gen1 and Gen2 QD Oled screens, luck of the draw determines which one you get. That is far worse than AMD informing the consumer through the product name which Zen is in the chip. Sure you can argue if it should be the 3rd digit or not and you can argue that no 4c8t part should be Ryzen 5 and you have something valid, but calling it worse than what Intel do is just total nonsense.

 

[Geddagod]

That s only for 4C/8T SKUs, so in cheap laptops whose not that much is expected.

Ye, AMD is only screwing the poor folk. That's fine.

What Inel is doing is as if AMD stuck Zen 2 without SMT and Zen 4 cores within a same SKU, think about it...

Why think about hypothetical hybrid setups? AMD is already releasing hybrid products without differentiating the cores.

Guess that i did hit a nerve...

Nah I'm playing

If MTL was that wonderfull we would know about it currently,

It's almost as if the product hasn't launched yet.

Intel s marketing dpt would be occupied spreading infos about the thing rather than smearing AMD

You know, the timing also coincides when AMD is going to do a major refresh with the new "8000" series since we are coming into 2024.

seems that they are keeping mum on the subject for a good reason,

Because it hasn't launched yet?

if MLID is half right then it will barely match a 7840U/HS, the graph he displayed show 25-30% better perf/Watt at isoperf for MTL in respect of a 13900H...

Even if you take the 13700h graph and shift it by 20% from the node itself you aren't getting anything much better than matching Zen 4 in perf/watt for reasonable TDPs.

Intel obfuscates the architecture used in their products. The 13400KF uses both RPL and ADL and it depends on the stepping as to which you get,

Holy moly the 5% difference in performance between steppings is making me so mad grrrr

hat is far worse than AMD informing the consumer through the product name which Zen is in the chip.

Can't wait to buy 7000 series Zen 2 products right along side... also 7000 series Zen 4 products.

but calling it worse than what Intel do is just total nonsense.

It is far, far worse. If your best argument is that Intel 7 dies are being snuck into Intel 7+ skus... then you don't have much to stand on.