Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[msj10]

Because a similar thing with Panther Cove happened with Ocean Cove, where they canned the architecture and started work on a new one. And if that precedent with Ocean Cove continues, the new 'cove', cougar cove, would look to be just a minor update of lion cove, maybe on a new node.

that story from MLID about panther cove being cancelled and replaced by cougar cove doesn't really seem real. I think panther lake was always supposed to use cougar cove, raichu already leaked it last year. Panther cove is still probably coming after cougar.

I think @Exist50 said sometime ago that both Royal core and Panther Cove might coexist with each other so maybe we are going to have 3 microarchitectures in one product with Royal being the "Extra big core", Panther cove being the big core and atom the little core just like ARM CPUs.

 

[Geddagod]

that story from MLID about panther cove being cancelled and replaced by cougar cove doesn't really seem real. I think panther lake was always supposed to use cougar cove, raichu already leaked it last year. Panther cove is still probably coming after cougar.

I think @Exist50 said sometime ago that both Royal core and Panther Cove might coexist with each other so maybe we are going to have 3 microarchitectures in one product with Royal being the "Extra big core", Panther cove being the big core and atom the little core just like ARM CPUs.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590761980838936576

I thought this meant that Panther Cove at one point did exist, but it got replaced with Cougar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[aigomorla]

i don't recall him ever being so sad about intel like you have.

Thats because i had a professional relationship with them though a authorized distributor.
I was given Engineering Sample chips for testing purpose, and allowed to post them on social media forums before youtube and ticktok got popular.
I was given CPU's like this.
Cherry picked goodness, yes... why people thought ES were so great, because most of the review samples were cherry picked.


You can tell which was i picked out as the super cherry...
Hint... its the Lapped one.

So yeah i am quite very sad, that once great company is where its at.
Example of what happens when you think your too big to fail, and then you get sloppy and lazy.

 

[A///]

Thats because i had a professional relationship with them though a authorized distributor.
I was given Engineering Sample chips for testing purpose, and allowed to post them on social media forums before youtube and ticktok got popular.
I was given CPU's like this.
Cherry picked goodness, yes... why people thought ES were so great, because most of the review samples were cherry picked.
View attachment 81312

You can tell which was i picked out as the super cherry...
Hint... its the Lapped one.

So yeah i am quite very sad, that once great company is where its at.
Example of what happens when you think your too big to fail, and then you get sloppy and lazy.

I misread and thought you said buildzoid, and now I'm confused if we're discussing amd or intel because both have fallen down from their great periods at least once. I know those are intel cpus... give them time. amd wasn't exactly hot stuff afte core dropped. it was a long slow suffer until ryzen brought them back. overpaying for ati didn't help but in hind sight it helped them keep the lights on with their console revenue. if intel didn't have outstanding supply contracts their q figures would be worse.

 

[A///]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1590761980838936576

I thought this meant that Panther Cove at one point did exist, but it got replaced with Cougar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

those i take seriously as code names but beast lake? it sounds like hired a pot smoking 14 yo as a marketing director for future launches.

 

[Geddagod]

Intel Innovation 2023 set for September 19, Raptor Lake Refresh launch? - VideoCardz.com

Intel sets a date for the Innovation 2023 event for September 29 The Innovation is not strictly a product showcase event. The company has set a goal to gain interest from developers (hardware and software), architecture, technology managers, researchers, and influencers. It is not a typical...

videocardz.com

Honestly sounds like the perfect time to announce MTL as well. If launch of laptops is in Q4, announcing the product in Q3 (maybe even to just hit internal deadlines who knows) doesn't sound too far fetched.

 

[A///]

Intel Innovation 2023 set for September 19, Raptor Lake Refresh launch? - VideoCardz.com

Intel sets a date for the Innovation 2023 event for September 29 The Innovation is not strictly a product showcase event. The company has set a goal to gain interest from developers (hardware and software), architecture, technology managers, researchers, and influencers. It is not a typical...

videocardz.com

Honestly sounds like the perfect time to announce MTL as well. If launch of laptops is in Q4, announcing the product in Q3 (maybe even to just hit internal deadlines who knows) doesn't sound too far fetched.

if ya can't make back 2 school sales then holiday sales for the chumps ahem customers out there wanting a new laptop to use their facebook and the twitter then that's gonna be your shot.

 

[Exist50]

Question- when companies scrap previous architectures, do they start work on a new architecture or do they grab a simultaneous architecture in the works? Do companies like Intel develop multiple architectures during the path finding phase and then run them through sims to find the most feasible one?

There's no set procedure, but usually when a company does a "grounds up" new architecture, it's because they have a couple of "big ideas" they want to make reality. When such projects are canceled, it's because the investment into those is not judged to be worth the effort, however right or wrong that may be, and in those cases they tend to fall back to iterations of some existing architecture. Companies may, on rare occasion, simulate two different architecture baselines where large differences exist (usually between two different teams), but I'm not aware of any company that regularly develops multiple independent and mutually exclusive architectures.

Because a similar thing with Panther Cove happened with Ocean Cove, where they canned the architecture and started work on a new one. And if that precedent with Ocean Cove continues, the new 'cove', cougar cove, would look to be just a minor update of lion cove, maybe on a new node.

Ah, I see the confusion here. Panther Cove wasn't canceled. It was delayed a year, and Cougar Cove added as a filler/tick gen to take its place. On a related topic, I doubt both Royal and Core can coexist in the long run. There's only enough room for one, and given Intel's history, that's likely to be a nasty political fight. Maybe why Phelps left, for all I know.

 

[Exist50]

cmon exist, give us the juicy details mate.

Ah, but where's the fun in that? Nah, better for all involved if no one takes me seriously. Then I'd need an anime profile pic, and it's all downhill from there.

those i take seriously as code names but beast lake? it sounds like hired a pot smoking 14 yo as a marketing director for future launches.

Better than the name they originally had for Arrow Lake. Wonder if Raichu knows that one. But even if the Beast Lake name is real, the nature of that SoC seems to be harder to pin down, at least for me. Reasonably sure it means Royal, but core count, platform, etc? No clue.

 

[A///]

Ah, but where's the fun in that? But nah, better for all involved if no one takes me seriously. Then I'd need an anime profile pic, and it's all downhill from there.

i suspect posting anime women with big ole milkers and heart shaped vaginas wouldn't fly on this here board nope.

Better than the name they originally had for Arrow Lake. Wonder if Raichu knows that one. But even if the Beast Lake name is real, the nature of that SoC seems to be harder to pin down, at least for me. Reasonably sure it means Royal, but core count, platform, etc? No clue.

this has me curious... ill look into it. Beast lake's name for me seems childish but maybe this was intel's prerogative to throw leakers and their kinfolk followers off the trail. it's no red herring and not security by obfuscation but privacy through stupidity maybe. if royal = beast then it makes sense because as i said to you weeks ago in another thread that the royal core name stopped showing up online about 2 years ago. beast lake is the first unconfonfirmed core name since then that's come up, and prior to rachu's tweet I'd never seen beast lake mentioned online, or was that mlid's brain spazzing out to seem relevant. although based on old very much unconfirmed rumors about royal core it makes the cod ename beast lake have credence based on the earlier reported but highly unconfirmed royal core capabiilities.

 

[mikk]

If Beast Leake can be Royal Core what about Nova Lake? Wasn't it supposed to be the first Royal Core generation?

 

[A///]

If Beast Leake can be Royal Core what about Nova Lake? Wasn't it supposed to be the first Royal Core generation?

nova lake ceased showing up on outlook slides late 21 early 22. i said this to someone on here a few weeks ago, i do not know if it has showed up since then or been mentioned aka name dropped online because i dunno how to keep track of that kind of stuff but it would have shown up here.

 

[mikk]

nova lake ceased showing up on outlook slides late 21 early 22. i said this to someone on here a few weeks ago, i do not know if it has showed up since then or been mentioned aka name dropped online because i dunno how to keep track of that kind of stuff but it would have shown up here.

Nova Lake was supposed to come with Panther Cove cores. Exist50 told Panther Cove wasn't cancelled but Cougar Cove added as a filler/tick gen. Maybe it's coming after Cougar Cove. We don't really know what is coming after Panther Lake. We don't know the LGA 1851 successor and so on.

 

[A///]

Nova Lake was supposed to come with Panther Cove cores. Exist50 told Panther Cove wasn't cancelled but Cougar Cove added as a filler/tick gen. Maybe it's coming after Cougar Cove. We don't really know what is coming after Panther Lake. We don't know the LGA 1851 successor and so on.

I had some old bookmarks on leaked gens. I don't remember cougar cove but I deleted those bookmarks while doing some digital cleaning and I don't remember it. Lunar was canceled wasn't it?

 

[Exist50]

royal = beast then it makes sense because as i said to you weeks ago in another thread that the royal core name stopped showing up online about 2 years ago. beast lake is the first unconfonfirmed core name since then that's come up

The "Lakes" are the SoCs, not the core name. So you'd see something like Beast Lake = a SoC containing Royal and other things.

If Beast Leake can be Royal Core what about Nova Lake? Wasn't it supposed to be the first Royal Core generation?

Presumably the Nova Lake branded parts would be Panther Cove + ??? Atom, and Beast Lake either Royal + ??? Atom, or possibly Royal + Panther Cove + ??? Atom. In practice, they'd probably just have a different compute die between the two.

Though there are some kind of concerning implications to doing both. Not going "all in" on something like Royal for the first gen is reasonable enough, but if they're going to do both, does the budget exist when they're slashing everything else? I worry Beast Lake might be on the chopping block.

Lunar was canceled wasn't it?

Lunar Lake is very much still a thing. Think they even have silicon back for it, but not 100% on that.

 

[Geddagod]

Lunar Lake is very much still a thing. Think they even have silicon back for it, but not 100% on that.

They announced LNL tape out at the start of this year.

 

[igor_kavinski]

i was victim to one of those many years ago. i hold no grudge, karmas doing them right in. not x86 less complexity

So you said no to the second job offer from them? I always thought it was the first one you declined.

 

[Hulk]

40% IPC increase ST from one generation to the next these days is high altitude pastry. There I said it.

 

[A///]

So you said no to the second job offer from them? I always thought it was the first one you declined.

You misread. The blue company offer was about 20 years ago that I ditched high and dry ignored calls and emails because I took a better position at another company and moved cross country to Georgia with my then wife. This was before intel's comeback streak.

the lay off was at a non x86 company that ends in com. I know that's a broad swath of companies but you're a smart bloke. You'll figure it out. I've never been employed by intel, amd or via. x86 has never been interesting to me.

I don't agree with georgia's state politics nor did I then, but by golly it's a beautiful state once you're outside the city limits. dying and going to heaven that.

 

[A///]

They announced LNL tape out at the start of this year.

A specific date range would be nice. this tracks with the off topic conversation I had with exist not long ago or was it you. to my mind it might have been a month ago but knowing how poor I am with keeping track of the time it could have been 6 months ago.

 

[igor_kavinski]

So Arrow Lake will face off against Zen 5 and then later on, Beast Lake is poised to take on Zen 6?

 

[A///]

the rumor i remember reading late last year was zen 5 in the first half of 2024. idk intel's release schedule it may not be a late 2024 release. intel used to release desktop parts in the middle of the year or earlier. zen 5 is allgedly a new design but being out of the pandemic now helps with timelines. lunar and panther are supposed to come after arrow from what i remember and now that we know neither are cancelled anymore or never were to begin with i'd expect those before the beast lake. i dunno if it was panther or lunar that were mobile only. intel could do a short lived generation like 7th was until 8th popped up.

 

[ondma]

So Arrow Lake will face off against Zen 5 and then later on, Beast Lake is poised to take on Zen 6?

Hopefully. Somehow, I feel a lot more confident that AMD will deliver Zen 5 and 6 on time and meeting expected performance gains than I do about Intel, especially with RL refresh replacing ML S and with all the layoffs. Assuming Zen 5 comes out before Arrow, Intel is going to be in a very bad position until Arrow Lake (hopefully) will allow them to catch up or move ahead temporarily.

 

[aigomorla]

Welp... im sort of lost after seeing these:

New world Record:

Intel's Xeon W9-3495X processor claims world record - NextComputing - Purpose-Built Computer Solutions

Via https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-breaks-cinebench-r23-world-record-with-its-super-powerful-sapphire-rapids-chip Intel’s Xeon W9-3495X 56-core workstation processor has claimed a new world record in rendering using the Cinebench R23 benchmark. Despite having 8 fewer cores and 16 fewer...

solutions.nextcomputing.com

5ghz overclock:

SkatterBencher #61: Intel Xeon w5-3435X Overclocked to 5200 MHz - SkatterBencher

We overclock the Intel Xeon w5-3435X up to 5200 MHz with the ASUS Pro WS W790E-Sage SE motherboard and EK-Pro water cooling.

skatterbencher.com

And yeah before people start calling foul on exotic cooling... might i remind people that unless your running stock, i pretty much guarantee people will be running a custom LCS on a 3000 dollar core system, and not end it on a noctua or a AIO.

@Shmee I told ya that 3400 series was a beast... dont even bother looking at the 2400 series which is basically like a lexus with raptor lake being the toyota.

 

[nicalandia]

Welp... im sort of lost after seeing these:

New world Record:

Intel's Xeon W9-3495X processor claims world record - NextComputing - Purpose-Built Computer Solutions

Via https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-breaks-cinebench-r23-world-record-with-its-super-powerful-sapphire-rapids-chip Intel’s Xeon W9-3495X 56-core workstation processor has claimed a new world record in rendering using the Cinebench R23 benchmark. Despite having 8 fewer cores and 16 fewer...

solutions.nextcomputing.com

5ghz overclock:

SkatterBencher #61: Intel Xeon w5-3435X Overclocked to 5200 MHz - SkatterBencher

We overclock the Intel Xeon w5-3435X up to 5200 MHz with the ASUS Pro WS W790E-Sage SE motherboard and EK-Pro water cooling.

skatterbencher.com

And yeah before people start calling foul on exotic cooling... might i remind people that unless your running stock, i pretty much guarantee people will be running a custom LCS on a 3000 dollar core system, and not end it on a noctua or a AIO.

@Shmee I told ya that 3400 series was a beast... dont even bother looking at the 2400 series which is basically like a lexus with raptor lake being the toyota.

Water cooled stock Server Genoa can do 120,000 points. Sapphire Rapids HEDT is a Joke at stock. Zen4 Threadripper will break 200,000 points no problem




Want to talk about AMD and their exploits?
Post in an AMD titled thread.
Not here.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director