coercitiv
Diamond Member
- Jan 24, 2014
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More money for less performance at a higher power draw.
Saylick
Diamond Member
- Sep 10, 2012
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Idk what Intel is smoking to price their top dog 60C SKU at ~1.4x the price of the top Genoa 96C SKU when it uses more power and is only more performant in very specific workloads.
Doubt any real customer will pay those prices, even for AMD.
Saylick
Diamond Member
- Sep 10, 2012
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True, there's always going to be bulk sales discounts to hyperscalers, but the MSRPs don't look favorable in a heads to heads comparison.
Note: I revised my earlier post. It's closer to 1.4x in MSRP difference, not >1.5x, for flagship vs flagship. $17k vs. $12k. For similar core counts, 64C Genoa vs 60C SPR, it's $17k vs. $9k.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2017
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And those very specific workloads are what Intel focuses on for this gen. Note that the design of SPR essentially predates the resurrection of the competition so the focus was on adding unique selling points on top of previous gens for which they could ask premium money, akin to AVX-512 before. And Intel did go all out with a lot of new accelerators, all for very specific workloads. History just wasn't kind to this repeatedly delayed roadmap. 🤷
They can provide more volume which seems to be a major headache for those who want AMD server CPUs. So most companies will be forced to swallow the bitter Xeon pill or wait months or years for Epyc CPUs to become available.
To be honest, I am surprised on how good it's performing, but it's a hard sell when compared to the 64C Genoa part.
Performance is allover the place, but what surprises me is the AVX-512 Performance, AMD is beating them really bad.
For general purpose 3D Rendering like Blender, The 8490H is a match for the Milan-X Part
The geometric mean results for CPUs like this aren't very useful as they will include several single or lightly threaded tests and tests where the specific accelerators in the Xeon chips are used. When you look at benchmarks that are more in line with typical use cases for these high core count server CPUs, SPR falls more in line with expectations (i.e. a bit above Milan while using more power but no where near Genoa). Still, Intel needed this jump badly. This will at least let them be competitive with AMD's lower offerings in general (though they'll have to give crazy price breaks) and let them be the clear winner where the accelerators play a role (niche but they can at least claim dominance there). Still some rough waters ahead for Intel's data center group, but SPR will keep them in the game for a bit.
This is the chart
Genoa 9554 64C/128T 2S vs SPR-SP 8490H 2S
Look at that, That OpenVINO is making things more competitive because it's the only CPU Benchmark on this test that can take advantage of the Intel AMX
But even with that the 9554 comes ahead, So $17,000 vs $9,000. It's a Hard Sell for Intel.
Genoa 9554 64C/128T 2S vs SPR-SP 8490H 2S
Look at that, That OpenVINO is making things more competitive because it's the only CPU Benchmark on this test that can take advantage of the Intel AMX
But even with that the 9554 comes ahead, So $17,000 vs $9,000. It's a Hard Sell for Intel.
Will this still be the case in 2023? I'm genuinely curious. I have been hoping that AMD would take data center market share much faster than they have in the past. Granted, COVID screwed up the supply chain and AMD could not gain market share faster despite selling everything it made.
Going forward, with the supply chain constraint easing, AMD should be able to take market share from Intel faster. Also, I have seen rumors that SP will only ramp later in the year despite the fact that it is launching today.
BTW, does anybody know if Intel's accelerator features (QAT, DSA, DLB and IAA) are something you can add to AMD platform using a discrete accelerator card? I'm not as concerned about AI acceleration since any serious AI training & inferencing still requires NVidia GPUs. Just curious.
I don't think wafers should be a bottleneck anymore. However, that doesn't mean AMD can provide infinite supply. You still have IC packaging/assembly, testing, product packaging/shipping, etc. AMD has to have the infrastructure at every stage to support higher volumes. I believe they will continue to increase their supply volume and continue to eat away at Intel's server market share, but it won't be like flipping a switch from 15% market supply to 50%. I also expect Intel to continue to be very aggressive in pricing and partnership pressure to keep people on Intel as much as possible. They won't be able to go as far in this regard as they have in the past, but they can do enough to slow AMD's progress a bit, even if AMD could offer infinite supply.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
- Jun 1, 2017
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AMD already stated several times before that wafers are no longer the bottleneck, substrate is and that's being worked on for quite some time. I just wonder for how long until it's officially called as resolved. Sony announcing that PS5 shortages are officially over may be a hint of things to come.
Thanks! Found this interesting link: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/i...rease-investments-in-packaging-and-substrates
It's mind boggling how dependent even Intel is on external suppliers.
More data, this includes more general apps(also the OpenVino AMX)
That High Speed 32C/64T Genoa it's a powerful beast, I suspect that the 32C/64T ThreadRipper Version with Higher Clocks will be even more impressive
That High Speed 32C/64T Genoa it's a powerful beast, I suspect that the 32C/64T ThreadRipper Version with Higher Clocks will be even more impressive
Markfw
Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
- May 16, 2002
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If you exclude the VINO benchmarks using Intel written software on Intel proprietary hardware, even the 64 core Genoa smacks SR around, and at half the power and half the price. Then there is the 96 core Genoa and then the 128 core Bergamo.
As I said before Game over......
As I said before Game over......
DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
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Has Intel proven they can ship Sapphire Rapids at the same volume levels that they did Cascade Lake-SP when it launched? Ice Lake-SP was a disaster in that regard.
Ice Lake is only now beginning to sell in the UAE region. Last month we got a quote from our vendor for a 3rd gen scalable Xeon server. However, management not understanding how lucky they got, decided to not avail it and are going to go with Azure Cloud, where they are giving us Cascade Lake VMs. Don't ask how mad I feel.
DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
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DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
- 21,632
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