Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Exist50]

The specific mentions of Atom indicates to me that it's an older much more power/die efficient core like Silvermont. It's efficient enough to use in phone modems and it's completely x86 compatible as we know.

Nah, I think it's 2x Crestmont. ISA compatibility is enough of a headache without introducing a CPU that doesn't even support AVX. Just not viable.

 

[A///]

Is Intel still planing on bringing AVX512 to their mainstream line?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Nah, I think it's 2x Crestmont. ISA compatibility is enough of a headache without introducing a CPU that doesn't even support AVX. Just not viable.

You seem to have good sources but I am gonna guess in this case it may be more of a speculation than not.

Goldmont class cores are more than powerful enough for chipset duties and Crestmont is overkill. For example the Silvermont used in integration clocked well below 1GHz. Silvermont and it's derivatives are also proven in that they were able to make x86 devices with ARM-like low power, while they abandoned that in successors.

If you are using a core almost entirely for the purpose of taming power management, AVX won't be needed. The issue with battery life on Intel platforms is that while it can go to super low idle(2W, display on), it takes an amazing effort to make it happen. So what happens in regular Intel platforms is that the true idle power is closer to 4W+. The talk about KEI and efficient x86 core sounds like it's needed to achieve the much better battery life on par with ARM notebooks.

 

[Exist50]

You seem to have good sources but I am gonna guess in this case it may be more of a speculation than not.

Goldmont class cores are more than powerful enough for chipset duties and Crestmont is overkill. For example the Silvermont used in integration clocked well below 1GHz. Silvermont and it's derivatives are also proven in that they were able to make x86 devices with ARM-like low power, while they abandoned that in successors.

If you are using a core almost entirely for the purpose of taming power management, AVX won't be needed. The issue with battery life on Intel platforms is that while it can go to super low idle(2W, display on), it takes an amazing effort to make it happen. So what happens in regular Intel platforms is that the true idle power is closer to 4W+. The talk about KEI and efficient x86 core sounds like it's needed to achieve the much better battery life on par with ARM notebooks.

I'm not 100% confident that it's exactly 2x Crestmont, since my information pre-dates Crestmont in general, but I'm confident it's no less than 2x Gracemont.

And you seem to be looking at it like a microcontroller, but I think it's meant as a general purpose application processor. Like, you could watch a youtube video without ever waking the compute tile. But that means it has to be software compatible with the other cores. Might be a real pain for Arrow Lake in particular. So to answer A///'s question above, I don't expect AVX-512 to be making a comeback anytime soon.

 

[IntelUser2000]

And you seem to be looking at it like a microcontroller, but I think it's meant as a general purpose application processor. Like, you could watch a youtube video without ever waking the compute tile. But that means it has to be software compatible with the other cores. Might be a real pain for Arrow Lake in particular.

That almost sounds like a 3rd hybrid cluster for light application duties. Sounds like a minefield to me. The reason I thought a simpler CPU would work is because on a typical system you aren't just running a browser with a video. It also isn't because you have too many tabs open. It's that there's a rogue thread or driver that refuses to cooperate.

And it's so common because that's how complex the Windows ecosystem is.
-Obscure Chinese SSD vs a well known SSD from a good manufacturer
-Needing a driver version that's not available on the manufacturer support site but may be available using driver retrieval software(which often is shady).
-The driver/firmware of the hardware is simply buggy. And since it's something like a webcam or a fingerprint device, you can't do anything about it.

So ideally if a dedicated core can do all that without needing a special driver then you can keep the main core in the lowest C state when necessary. And you don't need it powerful enough to run even a browser.

Also specifically regarding Intel I believe their off-die PCH is hampering them. As an IDM they are also concerned with maximizing their fabs so moving the main chips to a full SoC would mean loss of utilization. In their eyes they needed EMIB/Foveros before dealing with this despite them likely realizing they need a form of on-die chipset.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That almost sounds like a 3rd hybrid cluster for light application duties. Sounds like a minefield to me.

Let's hope not. That would be silly.

 

[nicalandia]

According to this Leak Raptor Lake will bring Higher Boost than 12900KS, Perhaps 13900K wil have 5.8 Ghz boost and 13900KS 6 Ghz? I could see those numbers to fight with 5+ Ghz Zen4

Intel Core i9-13900K: Nueva info indica velocidades de hasta @ 5,8 GHz

Intel Raptor Lake parece seguir la estela de sus predecesores, con un i9-13900K alcanzando los 5.8 GHz de velocidad de reloj.

www.profesionalreview.com

Intel's Next-Gen Raptor Lake Flagship CPU Rumored to Run at 5.8GHz

Intel is rumored to be doing what Intel does best with Raptor Lake: cranking clock speeds to the moon.

www.extremetech.com

 

[Exist50]

Let's hope not. That would be silly.

Well for better or worse, that's my understanding of what it is. I don't think it's a bad idea in theory... but I worry about the ISA implications.

According to this Leak Raptor Lake will bring Higher Boost than 12900KS, Perhaps 13900K wil have 5.8 Ghz boost and 13900KS 6 Ghz? I could see those numbers to fight with 5+ Ghz Zen4

I have significant doubts that they can hit those speeds on Intel 7. Zen 4 will have a much better chance.

 

[deasd]

RaptorLake-P 14 cores leaked By Userbenchmark

Intel Raptor Lake-P 14 Core ES Mobility CPU Spotted, Faster Than Alder Lake Core i9-12900HK Flagship CPU

Intel Raptor Lake-P 14 Core Mobility CPU has been benchmarked and the ES chip is faster than the fastest Alder Lake Mobility CPU already.

wccftech.com

Now UserBenchmark is known for its bias against AMD's CPUs so we are not going to compare the performance of the leaked Raptor Lake part against any Ryzen CPUs but instead use Intel's own Alder Lake CPUs for comparison. The benchmark database includes results for Core i9-12900HK which has the same 14 core and 20 thread CPU config and runs at a higher base clock of 2.9 GHz and boost clock of 4.3 GHz.

It's the first time I hear Userbenchmark is bias against AMD though, any bad track records?

 

[Mopetar]

It's the first time I hear Userbenchmark is bias against AMD though, any bad track records?

Go read some of their CPU summaries. The recent 5800X3D is pretty good. There are even some of their Intel CPU summaries where they spend more time whining about AMD biased reviewers than talking about the Intel CPU in question. Even the r/intel subreddit has banned them from being posted there.

 

[nicalandia]

It's the first time I hear Userbenchmark is bias against AMD though, any bad track records?

Have you been living under a rock for the past 6 Years? Userbenchmark has been banned as a reputable source by most outlets

 

[deasd]

Go read some of their CPU summaries. The recent 5800X3D is pretty good. There are even some of their Intel CPU summaries where they spend more time whining about AMD biased reviewers than talking about the Intel CPU in question. Even the r/intel subreddit has banned them from being posted there.

oh yea I just read their comment about 5800X3D. facepalm

Have you been living under a rock for the past 6 Years? Userbenchmark has been banned as a reputable source by most outlets

I'm outsider but I also never take Userbenchmark as reliable site(much worse than geekbench), but it's fresh to me that a big site like WCCFtech call other site BIAS which makes me laugh and curious if it would cause any drama lol.

(off topic....)

 

[Exist50]

RaptorLake-P 14 cores leaked By Userbenchmark

Intel Raptor Lake-P 14 Core ES Mobility CPU Spotted, Faster Than Alder Lake Core i9-12900HK Flagship CPU

Intel Raptor Lake-P 14 Core Mobility CPU has been benchmarked and the ES chip is faster than the fastest Alder Lake Mobility CPU already.

wccftech.com

View attachment 60162

View attachment 60163




It's the first time I hear Userbenchmark is bias against AMD though, any bad track records?

They change their suite and scoring system constantly to target whatever Intel happens to be doing the best in. Examples include decreasing or even eliminating the weighting of multicore results, and adding a whole category for just memory latency.

 

[moinmoin]

It's the first time I hear Userbenchmark is bias against AMD though, any bad track records?

They are the laughing stock among benchmark sites.

Some threads for your entertainment (all between 2019-2020, after which we as a forum apparently finally stopped caring about the site):

Ryzen 3000: userbenchmark changed the score weights in favor of intel

As predicted benchmark tool(s) are changed after Ryzen 3000 (to favor intel) The first one, and there is always a reason why they needed to change it now. https://wccftech.com/userbenchmark-updates-cpu-ranking-by-lowering-multi-core-importance-and-raising-single-core/

forums.anandtech.com

Question - Could Userbenchmark be more dishonest?

First, they changed their scoring methodology just after Zen 2 came out. Now, I was looking for a laptop for my sister, and was searching for info about the Ryzen 3500U. These clowns try to claim that a Whiskey Lake chip would be better for gaming than a Ryzen 3500U. She certainly doesn't need...

forums.anandtech.com

Discussion - UserBenchmark: 4 cores are enough

UserBenchmark.com apparently removed 64 thread comparison from their CPU benchmark, maximum is now 8. I guess nobody needs more than 4 cores, right??? :)

forums.anandtech.com

Question - More anti-AMD "Stealth Marketing" by UserBenchmark...

Basically, a blog post by "CPUPro", I guess, on UserBenchmark, talking about the new 3300X CPU, and basically dissing it, and saying that AMD is now effectively walking back their "moar coars" marketing, and now saying that "only quad-core is enough", and then claiming that the (as of yet...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[A///]

5.8 Ghz to 6 Ghz sounds like something My Life Is Diseased came up with.

I have significant doubts that they can hit those speeds on Intel 7. Zen 4 will have a much better chance.

Intel may matter in frequency sensitive software where more than a core or two aren't used during operations. I can only think of a few software where that would put Intel at an advantage.

 

[Exist50]

5.8 Ghz to 6 Ghz sounds like something My Life Is Diseased came up with.


Intel may matter in frequency sensitive software where more than a core or two aren't used during operations. I can only think of a few software where that would put Intel at an advantage.

I meant that I expect Zen 4 to have a better chance of hitting ~6GHz.

 

[A///]

I meant that I expect Zen 4 to have a better chance of hitting ~6GHz.

Oh yeah, we may see that in AM5's lifetime for sure. I'm still hung up on what Dr. Su said earlier this year during the AMD CES presentation where she said the game they were running had the chip at 5 Ghz. I haven't seen more info on that since then so I don't know she meant. I guess we'll find out more next month.

And of course then it's that long wait until launch day where every dang day feels like eternity.

 

[Thala]

Intel may matter in frequency sensitive software where more than a core or two aren't used during operations. I can only think of a few software where that would put Intel at an advantage.

Oh i can think of quite a few software packages, where this makes a difference - they are called single core benchmarks 😛

 

[A///]

Oh i can think of quite a few software packages, where this makes a difference - they are called single core benchmarks 😛

Keep talking like that and an annoying middle aged Frenchman will show up.

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517147213213831174

Intel CoreBot. All your base are his.

I'm glad I'm not the one inside that.

 

[Abwx]

Some hot news :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517437264070004736

 

[eek2121]

Is Intel still planing on bringing AVX512 to their mainstream line?

If not, rumor is Zen 4 will have it.

According to this Leak Raptor Lake will bring Higher Boost than 12900KS, Perhaps 13900K wil have 5.8 Ghz boost and 13900KS 6 Ghz? I could see those numbers to fight with 5+ Ghz Zen4

View attachment 60136

Intel Core i9-13900K: Nueva info indica velocidades de hasta @ 5,8 GHz

Intel Raptor Lake parece seguir la estela de sus predecesores, con un i9-13900K alcanzando los 5.8 GHz de velocidad de reloj.

www.profesionalreview.com

Intel's Next-Gen Raptor Lake Flagship CPU Rumored to Run at 5.8GHz

Intel is rumored to be doing what Intel does best with Raptor Lake: cranking clock speeds to the moon.

www.extremetech.com

With a chiller maybe.

 

[jpiniero]

Some hot news :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517437264070004736

They are going to do Bronze and Silver with 4 dies? That's a lot of 10 nm silicon for $500 list (and Intel probably only gets half of that)

 

[A///]

If not, rumor is Zen 4 will have it.

Very likely. The rumors go back a few years.

 

[A///]

They are going to do Bronze and Silver with 4 dies? That's a lot of 10 nm silicon for $500 list (and Intel probably only gets half of that)

Well Intel still has suckers who'll buy Intel and those who don't want to waste their time validating a competitor product even though it saves they money long term.