Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
11,450
5,191
136
Genoa has AVX-512 as well

AMX is the new hotness now, didn't you know?
Yeah, well, I guess I was wrong and there are enough workloads benefiting from Intel AVX512 extensions. That, or it has become a stupid check mark item in corporate purchasing requirements.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,670
621
126
I feel like the CEO wouldn't be publicly bragging about the performance unless he was confident. All the leaks look very impressive, the 12700K in particular looks like a winner.

There does seem to be a distinct lack of gaming benchmarks leaking though. Just wondering if the latency for DDR5 ram is hindering that?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,915
2,111
126
I feel like the CEO wouldn't be publicly bragging about the performance unless he was confident. All the leaks look very impressive, the 12700K in particular looks like a winner.

There does seem to be a distinct lack of gaming benchmarks leaking though. Just wondering if the latency for DDR5 ram is hindering that?
I think that DDR5 just isn't for gaming yet. More refined DDR5 will come out over time, and overclocked ones look okay. But gaming just doesn't need that type of bandwidth. I assume gaming will want DDR4 for quite some time.

Even leakers have limitations. Leaks can only come from equipment that is floating around the world. I will go out on a limb and assume that Intel, motherboard makers, and memory manufacturers want to highlight the new things: more cores, DDR5, PCIE 5.0 etc. Thus, they probably are giving away far more test systems that highlight those aspects and far fewer DDR4 motherboards. Thus the leaks just aren't there yet for the most part.
 
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dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,271
917
136
Alder Lake looks really good so far. I can understand the CEO's enthusiasm. If priced appropriately it could sell very well.
Intel CEO's job now is to say whatever it takes to stem the immediate blood loss to competition. It is fairly obvious at this point the company PR line is "unquestioned leadership", even if it is a fantasy. You can hear it in all the interviews of the CEO and his underlings, they regurgitate that line like well trained pets.

Also, Intel pricing has never taken competition into account (look at the Rocketlake pricing, or Icelake Xeons), so don't expect anything to be "priced appropriately". It will be priced along the same halo/premium/mainstream stack like always, regardless of actual performance. Go get a beefy cooling system, you will need it.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
11,558
3,174
136
Also, Intel pricing has never taken competition into account (look at the Rocketlake pricing, or Icelake Xeons), so don't expect anything to be "priced appropriately".
That's not true. Intel has been slashing real prices on Xeons. Whether it's enough is debatable since we don't know how far we are talking about beyond what the financials say.
 

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,271
917
136
That's not true. Intel has been slashing real prices on Xeons. Whether it's enough is debatable since we don't know how far we are talking about beyond what the financials say.
By real prices, do you mean with contra revenue rolled in? Because advertised prices haven't changed... perf per dollar is still ludicrously out of whack compared to AMD or ARM solutions.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
11,450
5,191
136
By real prices, do you mean with contra revenue rolled in? Because advertised prices haven't changed... perf per dollar is still ludicrously out of whack compared to AMD or ARM solutions.
Negotiated prices for large buyers (OEMs). I recall, but could be wrong, that companies like Google and AWS have stepped in an negotiate CPU prices with Intel for systems they were contracting to buy.
 

dmens

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2005
2,271
917
136
Negotiated prices for large buyers (OEMs). I recall, but could be wrong, that companies like Google and AWS have stepped in an negotiate CPU prices with Intel for systems they were contracting to buy.
Yeah that is common... but AMD certainly does this as well.
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,375
874
136
3DCenter did the homework for us and compared the 12700K Puget Systems leaks with comparable results from RKL and Zen3 in their database:
View attachment 51096

Very interesting results, especially when looking at performance jump between AE/PS and Premiere Pro.
Based on the Zen 3 scores it looks like these three apps don't scale well over 8 cores so this doesn't tell us much about Gracemont.

But it is starting to look like Golden Cove is going to be a competitor.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,376
126
I'll probably end up skipping Alder Lake no matter how good it is because I'm pretty happy with current Zen2 and older Intel rigs for the time being, but I'm hoping it's as good as possible, it only makes things better for everyone. I expect to finally see some sub $200 Zen3 SKUs hit the streets, which will be awesome. Probably not until the non-K models are released, but if 12600KF @ $250 is true, I could see 12400F for $200ish, which would demand 6C/12T Zen3 to at least match it.

I'm hoping Intel GPUs herald a resurgence of non brutal GPU options as well.

The high end is whatever, a playground for people with funny money to play, I just want to get back to the days I can make a really good gaming rig build for one of my sons, my nephew, a friend, etc for $600-$800 with decent specs.

Right now the best I could do is what .. something like :

Basic Case $50
600W Brand name PSU $60
B560 Mobo $100
I5 11400F $180
16GB DDR4 3000 $55
CM212 or equivalent $30
500GB WD Blue nVME $50

$525, then GPU ..

New prices are utterly broken. Best option to hit reasonable budget are things like

$200 1060 3GB
$225 980 4GB
$250-$280 1060 6GB
$320-$330 980ti 6GB
$375 1070 8GB

😔😭

Bring on Alder, Intel GPU, and let the market see some new price tiers and availability hopefully
 
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StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,670
621
126
Last I heard the Intel GPU's are 2H 2022, which I really hope is not the case. They will be DOA if they release that late.
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,375
874
136
I'll probably end up skipping Alder Lake no matter how good it is because I'm pretty happy with current Zen2 and older Intel rigs for the time being, but I'm hoping it's as good as possible, it only makes things better for everyone. I expect to finally see some sub $200 Zen3 SKUs hit the streets, which will be awesome. Probably not until the non-K models are released, but if 12600KF @ $250 is true, I could see 12400F for $200ish, which would demand 6C/12T Zen3 to at least match it.

I'm hoping Intel GPUs herald a resurgence of non brutal GPU options as well.

The high end is whatever, a playground for people with funny money to play, I just want to get back to the days I can make a really good gaming rig build for one of my sons, my nephew, a friend, etc for $600-$800 with decent specs.

Right now the best I could do is what .. something like :

Basic Case $50
600W Brand name PSU $60
B560 Mobo $100
I5 11400F $180
16GB DDR4 3000 $55
CM212 or equivalent $30
500GB WD Blue nVME $50

$525, then GPU ..

New prices are utterly broken. Best option to hit reasonable budget are things like

$200 1060 3GB
$225 980 4GB
$250-$280 1060 6GB
$320-$330 980ti 6GB
$375 1070 8GB

😔😭

Bring on Alder, Intel GPU, and let the market see some new price tiers and availability hopefully
I'm on the other end of the upgrade spectrum from you. While you have a fast system with a drop in upgrade path I'm still running a 4770K I got from Microcenter in 2013 for $199. I'm generally a ham 'n egger, putting together a rig with the best value/performance but I may throw caution to the wind this time and buy a bit higher up the price/performance curve. Depends on ADL final performance, price, and availability. A Zen 3 rig isn't out of the question either. But I am well overdue for an upgrade.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,192
3,053
136
So Alderlake-M has a GT3 variant. Sites are saying GT3 is also 96EUs, but maybe it's larger?

I thought it was being a "artist rendering" that made Alderlake-M large but maybe it actually has a bigger GPU. Since you can equip some 15-25W laptops with low end dGPUs but impossible on the 5-9W ones maybe they thought to include even bigger ones.

You can add 32 extra EUs for just 10mm2 extra die size. Maybe Intel wants in on the next Steam Deck.
 

uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
2,221
4,556
116
Finally, an ADL-S score with power shown at the same time.


4.9GHz on the P cores, 3.7GHz on the E cores, MT perf about the same as the 5950X and a CPU package power of 257W. Mind you both of the above are supposed to clock higher on final silicon - both the P and E cores.

Well hey, at least the ST score is really quite impressive. But that's to be expected at this point.
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,375
874
136
Finally, an ADL-S score with power shown at the same time.


4.9GHz on the P cores, 3.7GHz on the E cores, MT perf about the same as the 5950X and a CPU package power of 257W. Mind you both of the above are supposed to clock higher on final silicon - both the P and E cores.

Well hey, at least the ST score is really quite impressive. But that's to be expected at this point.
Nice find. Which app is running when power is 257W?
 

Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
829
1,336
136
Finally, an ADL-S score with power shown at the same time.


4.9GHz on the P cores, 3.7GHz on the E cores, MT perf about the same as the 5950X and a CPU package power of 257W. Mind you both of the above are supposed to clock higher on final silicon - both the P and E cores.

Well hey, at least the ST score is really quite impressive. But that's to be expected at this point.
As expected, in Cinebench R20 it will need 240-250W/or 100W+ more power to have same or similar score to R9 5950X. :grimacing:


Alder Lake 8+8 Cinebench R20, MT performance per watt is garbage:mask:
 
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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,375
874
136
Nice find. Which app is running when power is 257W?
Thanks. Some other discrepancies there I'm not sure about...

1. CB20 ST score of 768 is same as 12700K score posted elsewhere? 12900K CB20 ST should be more like 817, right? Also CB20 MT of 10545 seems about right so the ST 768 seems off.
2. 4888 all-core clock is supposed to be 5000 for 12900K isn't it? Could be a cooling issue I guess?

Exhausted trying to put this jigsaw puzzle together with so many pieces missing. Can't wait for Ian's dissection of this thing.
 

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