Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Hulk]

P4 to Core was arguably a doubling of IPC. All of the others since were 20% or less.

"Biggest architecture leap since Core."

That statement gets your attention if you remember 2006 but he could simply be touting a 21% IPC gain over Rocket Lake.
You really shouldn't talk about the Core leap unless you are thinking 50% IPC increase. Nothing wrong with two quick successive 20% IPC jumps within a year, but still, don't compare that to the P4 to Core leap. That was massive. It wiped Netburst and the Althlon way in one swoop. Suddenly it was Conroe this and Conroe that...

 

[mikk]

P4 to Core was arguably a doubling of IPC. All of the others since were 20% or less.

"Biggest architecture leap since Core."

That statement gets your attention if you remember 2006 but he could simply be touting a 21% IPC gain over Rocket Lake.
You really shouldn't talk about the Core leap unless you are thinking 50% IPC increase. Nothing wrong with two quick successive 20% IPC jumps within a year, but still, don't compare that to the P4 to Core leap. That was massive. It wiped Netburst and the Althlon way in one swoop. Suddenly it was Conroe this and Conroe that...

He didn't say it's as big as Conroe, he said biggest architecture movement since Conroe which implies Conroe brought bigger changes.

 

[Hulk]

He didn't say it's as big as Conroe, he said biggest architecture movement since Conroe which implies Conroe brought bigger changes.

Yes, I mentioned that in my post. By making the comparison he's implying we're looking at an extraordinary IPC increase from RKL to ADL, much more than the 20% we are used to, but less than the 100% from Netburst to Core. So I'm thinking he's leading us to believe perhaps a 60% IPC increase, right?

We shall see.

 

[blckgrffn]

Well.... it's Raja.

We can look back at AMD Vega press materials to see someone who can make lemons into lemonade in hype terms with products that are supposed to be competitive yet fall short in several important ways.

Honestly, I hope RKL is surprisingly performant/affordable and that Alderlake follows that up with a great launch. That's best for everyone.

 

[mikk]

Yes, I mentioned that in my post. By making the comparison he's implying we're looking at an extraordinary IPC increase from RKL to ADL, much more than the 20% we are used to, but less than the 100% from Netburst to Core. So I'm thinking he's leading us to believe perhaps a 60% IPC increase, right?

We shall see.

It's unrealistic to expect 60% unless the last Geekbench leak was indeed running with 2.7 Ghz which seems unlikely. I think if the last Geekbench leak is legit and the speculated ST frequency of 3.4-3.6 Ghz is somehow accurate we can hope for an 25% uplift or let's say something between 20-30%. Also he is talking about the achitecture in general, the hybrid is definitely a big design change for Intels Core lineup.

 

[Hulk]

It's unrealistic to expect 60% unless the last Geekbench leak was indeed running with 2.7 Ghz which seems unlikely. I think if the last Geekbench leak is legit and the speculated ST frequency of 3.4-3.6 Ghz is somehow accurate we can hope for an 25% uplift or let's say something between 20-30%. Also he is talking about the achitecture in general, the hybrid is definitely a big design change for Intels Core lineup.

I agree totally. I'm just saying he shouldn't be so hyperbolic in his statements.

"Biggest launch since Conroe" "Uh, actually 21% improvement, beating the second best launch by 0.235% because we were able to more heavily weight the AVX enabled benches"

As John Lennon said, "Just gimme some truth man."

If you can't comment on unreleased products then don't make vague statements that imply massive improvements.

 

[scannall]

Be careful of the hype train. I'm sure it will be a perfectly fine CPU, that will bring some nice improvements. But lower your expectations a bit, so you can at least be pleasantly surprised if it surpasses them.

Of course speculation and hyperbole can be fun, but wait for actual reviews by this site and others before getting carried away.

 

[HurleyBird]

Any thoughts on the decision to go with the 11900k on release, or wait for Alder-Lake?

I'm on a 6700k currently, and a few of my games are really needing > 4C8T. Guess this depends on whether Alder-Lake is delayed from 2H 2021 or not, hmm!

Alder Lake, not even a question. Smarter money still is on Zen 4 though, and that gives you an upgrade path. 6700K isn't too shabby for gaming yet.

 

[Cardyak]

Any thoughts on the decision to go with the 11900k on release, or wait for Alder-Lake?

I'm on a 6700k currently, and a few of my games are really needing > 4C8T. Guess this depends on whether Alder-Lake is delayed from 2H 2021 or not, hmm!

Wait for Alder Lake, I know it's frustrating if you are in the market for a new build, but I estimate Golden Cove will have 20% more IPC than Willow Cove (Which would make it ~50% more than Skylake), not to mention small efficient cores for background tasks and also DDR5 support.

 

[coercitiv]

Intel's Nehalem processor: Biggest leap since the Pentium Pro

At a press gathering this morning, Pat Gelsinger, senior vice president and general manager of Intel's Digital Enterprise Group, revealed details about a next generation processor, Nehalem, which brings an entirely new microarchitecture (and motherboards), and will include onboard memory and graphics controllers.

"The new systems architecture is a major shift is system architecture, and a stunning value proposition," Gelsinger beamed. "It's the biggest leap since the Pentium Pro [which reached the market in 1996]."

The article above is food for thought, even more interesting considering Pat Gelsinger is now back as the company's CEO.

 

[RTX2080]

First Comprehensive Review of the Core i7-11700K (ES) Surfaces

First Comprehensive Review of the Core i7-11700K (ES) Surfaces

Lab501 posted the first comprehensive review of an Intel Core i7-11700K "Rocket Lake-S" engineering sample. The ES has clock speeds matching the rumored clock speeds of the retail version, and should give you a fair idea of how the finished product should perform. The i7-11700K, which is an...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[JoeRambo]

Intel's Nehalem processor: Biggest leap since the Pentium Pro

The irony is that it was in fact C2D core with IMC bolted on. So it was PPRO derivative with IMC bolted on, QPI for interconnect and HT enabled. Uncore was different, but just like Sunny Cove to Willow Cove is "same core" with different cache architecture, it was same with C2D versus Nehalem. Of course what was truly revolutionary for customre was $266 triple channel quad that ran 3.8Ghz+
Biggest leap since Pentium PRO happened with Sandy Bridge, now that is core architecture that Intel is using basically to this day with some ports added and buffers widened.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm really looking forward to running BSD on Alder Lake. I'm sure they'll figure out the big + little core migration by 2030.

Make it OpenBSD. Theo will get right on that for you.

 

[Asterox]

Ok, "so i9 11900K is finaly faster in Cinebench", but slower in gaming. Intel will be happy, and Cinebench will be remowed from Intel blacklist.

Youtube video has english subs.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1360092884272173056

 

[JoeRambo]

Ok, "so i9 11900K is finaly faster in Cinebench", but slower in gaming. Intel will be happy, and Cinebench will be remowed from Intel blacklist.

Gaming on Intel depends on memory latency/bw and these "reviewers" used auto-overclocking, so memory might have ran 2933CL21?

EDIT: it says in video that they have used Hall of Fame 4000Cl17, but who knows in what configuration on Intel and AMD, since on AMD i doubt it ran 1:1 2000 ?

 

[lobz]

Do we know for sure that the IPC jump from Rocket Lake to Alder Lake will be as small as the jump from Sandy to Ivy? If that's the case I won't bother to wait.

It's the othee way around from what I gathered over these past months. ADL should be the real leap in architecture and not RKL. I say if you've already waited that long, might as well go for ADL, especially considering there's no mobo you can buy now that will allow you to drop in ADL later on. I don't know... You're definitely stronget than I am, I couldn't stand my 4790K any longer even a year ago. So maybe you can tough it out 😂

 

[Asterox]

Well it is expected, when is pushed hard Rocket Lake S is a Rocket.

Talking about power consumption, the Intel Core i7-11700K system consumed 286W which is 64W higher than the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X configured setup and 76W higher than the Core i7-10700K. It looks like power consumption is still an issue that is mostly related to the 14nm process node as AMD has shifted to an enhanced 7nm process which Intel is unable to match in efficiency. At the same time, the CPU does run cooler at around 71C whereas the Ryzen 7 5800X operates at around 89C.

Intel Core i7-11700K Rocket Lake Desktop CPU Full Performance Preview Leaks Out, Slower Than The AMD Ryzen 7 5800X & Consumes More Power

A full performance preview of Intel's 14nm and upcoming Core i7-11700K 8 Core Rocket Lake Desktop CPU has been posted by Lab501.

wccftech.com

Original source.

https://translate.google.com/transl...-i7-11700k-es-rocket-lake&prev=search&pto=aue

 

[Panino Manino]

I don't get it.
It may be 14nm, but its extremely mature. IMO it's impressive.
But why the performance isn't better if this is a "new" architecture?

 

[dullard]

I don't get it.
It may be 14nm, but its extremely mature. IMO it's impressive.
But why the performance isn't better if this is a "new" architecture?

Why do you think the performance is not better? Compare the 11700K to the 10700F. Both have the same all-core turbo frequency. On the benchmarks that I quickly looked at, the 11700K was 2% to 16% faster, averaging about 10% better performance at the same clock speed. Although I didn't do the calculations on every benchmark there.

It was also an engineering sample. Meaning that it might not be representative of the final product.

 

[Asterox]

I don't get it.
It may be 14nm, but its extremely mature. IMO it's impressive.
But why the performance isn't better if this is a "new" architecture?

Well up to 19% beeter IPC, so it can be 19% or only maybe 5% in some aplications etc.Hm what hapened here, if Zen 3 vs Rocket Lake all core turbo is very simliar.For example, very popular free video editing aplication Zen 3 8/16 vs Rocket Lake 8/16 CPU.

 

[Hulk]

While interesting, this "review" appears kind of sloppy in that many important details are unknown. Clock speeds during benches? Cooling for the tested systems? What if any "patch" microcode is hampering the RKL? Also tests that last 2 or 3 seconds are kind of silly.

That being said, if you need to compute digits of Pi it's looking pretty good. Also beats 10900k in Handbrake encoding, which is a good sign for ES silicon. Also the total system power consumption isn't that far off the 5800X. Keep in mind that part of the RKL package power is running the GPU.

On the other hand even with some retail fine-tuning it looks like, as we all pretty much knew, it's going to be a match for the 5800X with a bit higher peak power consumption. Purchase decisions are going to come down to pricing and availability I'm thinking.

I'm going to wait for a real review/analysis from Ian before I draw firm conclusions.

 

[blckgrffn]

While interesting, this "review" appears kind of sloppy in that many important details are unknown. Clock speeds during benches? Cooling for the tested systems? What if any "patch" microcode is hampering the RKL? Also tests that last 2 or 3 seconds are kind of silly.

That being said, if you need to compute digits of Pi it's looking pretty good. Also beats 10900k in Handbrake encoding, which is a good sign for ES silicon. Also the total system power consumption isn't that far off the 5800X. Keep in mind that part of the RKL package power is running the GPU.

On the other hand even with some retail fine-tuning it looks like, as we all pretty much knew, it's going to be a match for the 5800X with a bit higher peak power consumption. Purchase decisions are going to come down to pricing and availability I'm thinking.

I'm going to wait for a real review/analysis from Ian before I draw firm conclusions.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. If you can really get a 11700k for under $400 (seems incredibly likely with Microcenter) that ~competes with the 5800x and a solid six core part at ~$250 or maybe even closer to $200 that really looks solid compared to the 5600x I think we all win.

Granted, you'll need a better cooler, beefier motherboard and PSU for RKL but even still it's much more interesting than the 10th gen launch IMO.

 

[Hulk]

The only potential problem with a $400 11700k is the existence (at Microcenter) of a $350 10850k.

While the 11700k has higher IPC, the 10850k has two more cores and save you $50.

 

[DrMrLordX]

System power consumption for that 5800X in the review seems low. It should be the same consumption as the 5900X and 5950X unless it is throttling somehow. Which it may be.

@Hulk

It may well be that consumers will have a hard time choosing between Comet Lake and Rocket Lake, especially if Comet Lake prices continue to creep downward.

 

[blckgrffn]

It seems like Intel must have some strategy for managing this, on behalf of their OEMs as well.

What are the odds that we see the 10C 10th gen parts dry up really quickly?

The 10700 really seems like the integrator darling right now anyway.

FWIW, I am hoping that 10700k is ~$350 as well, but that still doesn't help the average consumer much. I mean, you are asking them to choose between an 8 core or a 10 core product with very similar clockspeeds, no coolers, etc. at the same price? I can't blame anyone who shrugs and takes the higher core count.