Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[IntelUser2000]

Afaik Ice Lake exhibits this behaviour in AVX512 workloads, not sure about mixed, I haven't checked clocks in mixed workloads.

Whiskeylake and Amberlake does that too. Amberlake even at 7W can drop to 500MHz depending on implementation.

It also depends a lot on system implementation. The XPS 13 ICL can maintain the minimum 1.3GHz, but on battery it probably drops to 1.1-1.2GHz.

Even with AVX-512, there's a noticeable difference between a code that's designed to stress the FPU(matrix multiplication for example) and applications that use the instruction for real workload such as x265. The load on the CPU is not black and white and can vary in a hundred different ways between.

Icelake only has support for the instruction and not the double throughput so the impact will likely be minimal compared to AVX-256. I don't think we'll see dual AVX-512 support in client for a while.

My experience with the i7 Ivy Bridge XPS 12 suggests that its not at all realistic running such power virus workloads(such as Prime 95 plus Furmark). Most laptops/ultrabooks can maintain better than base frequencies quite readily when running either of them.

Just in web browsing workloads the performance is greatly impacted by power management settings, thermals, and even the condition of the battery. Get a DTR or better yet, get a desktop.

 

[yeshua]

--delete me--

 

[yeshua]

Leaked pricing for Comet Lake. What can I say?

Spoiler: Competition is great!

Artem S. Tashkinov

It would be nice to see how Intel Core i5 10400F compares to Ryzen 5 3600.

 

[uzzi38]

Leaked pricing for Comet Lake. What can I say?

Spoiler: Competition is great!

View attachment 17293Artem S. Tashkinov

It would be nice to see how Intel Core i5 10400F compares to Ryzen 5 3600.

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffft

THAT's good for competition? Bruh, that's horrendous. Intel literally unravelling the red carpet for Zen 3 like 1-1.5Q later.

 

[yeshua]

Is this a topic about Intel future CPUs and uArchs? Your comment is utterly confusing.

 

[uzzi38]

Is this a topic about Intel future CPUs and uArchs? Your comment is utterly confusing.

Let me rephrase.

The pricing is bad. Horrendous even. Zen 3 launches about 1.5Q after Comet Lake, and literally walks all over this in every metric. All of them. Even against Zen 2, you'll need a Z490 mobo for any kind of overclocking (vs B450), and 3rd Gen Ryzen is already in the middle of AMD's price cut tradition in the major markets like the EU and US.

That's not competitive, and I'm actually kind of disappointed instead.

 

[Zucker2k]

Let me rephrase.

The pricing is bad. Horrendous even. Zen 3 launches about 1.5Q after Comet Lake, and literally walks all over this in every metric. All of them. Even against Zen 2, you'll need a Z490 mobo for any kind of overclocking (vs B450), and 3rd Gen Ryzen is already in the middle of AMD's price cut tradition in the major markets like the EU and US.

That's not competitive, and I'm actually kind of disappointed instead.

You do understand that Intel will cut prices if they have to?

 

[Markfw]

You do understand that Intel will cut prices if they have to?

Thats wishful thinking.....

 

[uzzi38]

You do understand that Intel will cut prices if they have to?

You do understand Intel don't do serious price cuts, right?

 

[krumme]

You do understand that Intel will cut prices if they have to?

I dont think they have to as their profit already is everywhere else, but anyways in half a year a 3800x is probably selling for 140usd and a 3600 for 100usd.
I dont think Intel can handle this differently. They cant go into a pricefight or even be directly compettitive with the current portfolio at desktop. Simple as that. They will find other ways.

 

[coercitiv]

It would be nice to see how Intel Core i5 10400F compares to Ryzen 5 3600.

We already know though: take 8700K data, lower scores by 7-10% depending on how multi-threaded the load is.

First gen Coffee Lake brought more to the table than Comet Lake will. Having said that, the "free" SMT is a welcome addition for mainstream consumers.

 

[Asterox]

You do understand that Intel will cut prices if they have to?

They did just that with Comet Lake-S, or precise this is still Skylake CPU+again new socket on 14nm++++++=this is much to late/lower prices competition only for Ryzen 3000 series.

Comet Lake -S in not competition for Desktop Ryzen 4000 or Zen 3.

When Intel cut prices, well you will not get a copy-paste i7 8700K for 200$ or euro.i5 10400F is not green stuff, no overclocking and 300mhz lower all Core Turbo or 4ghz.

Ryzen 5 3600 is and will remain best seling CPU on the market.Price cuts are coming soon, or more precise now price is lower 172euro. For example Mindfactory, or the bigest German PC retailer web shop.

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6x 3.60GHz So.AM4 BOX - Sockel AM4 | Mindfactory.de

AMD Desktop von AMD | AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6x 3.60GHz So.AM4 BOX :: Bestellt :: über 125.370 verkauft :: 24 Jahre Kompetenz | Hier bestellen

www.mindfactory.de

For end one question simple, when will Intel sell any older 6/12 CPU(well one year in the future Skylake CPU will be "kinda of old") for 85$ as competition to AMD R5 1600AF for 85$???

 

[jpiniero]

The pricing is bad. Horrendous even. Zen 3 launches about 1.5Q after Comet Lake, and literally walks all over this in every metric. All of them.

Given the shortage, I doubt Intel is going to be very interested in cutting prices on client as of yet, to retail anyway.

AMD is probably going to raise prices with Zen 3.

 

[Markfw]

Zucker2k just thinks Intel can do no wrong, and they are still king.

 

[jpiniero]

As for Tiger-H, perhaps it's just a 35 W version of either Tiger-U or Rocket-U.

 

[JasonLD]

As for Tiger-H, perhaps it's just a 35 W version of either Tiger-U or Rocket-U.

If it is -H, i would say it is 8 core min. Especially for something that is slated for next year.

 

[jpiniero]

If it is -H, i would say it is 8 core min. Especially for something that is slated for next year.

150 mm2 is already far too big for 10 nm as it is... Adding another 4 cores would make it too much. They'd have to cut the IGP, which they could do, but I'm not really sure they want to spend the engineering effort on that.

 

[JasonLD]

150 mm2 is already far too big for 10 nm as it is... Adding another 4 cores would make it too much. They'd have to cut the IGP, which they could do, but I'm not really sure they want to spend the engineering effort on that.

Not sure why would that be so difficult. They probably won't be designing entire Tiger Lake lineup deriving from Tiger Lake-U. They can also move the entire IGP on different chiplet.

 

[IntelUser2000]

As for Tiger-H, perhaps it's just a 35 W version of either Tiger-U or Rocket-U.

That's if its real and not something that'll never see the light of day. I think same was shown for CPUs like Icelake and Cannonlake S and where are they now?

They'd have to cut the IGP, which they could do, but I'm not really sure they want to spend the engineering effort on that.

They certainly can cut the iGPU. The architecture is made for scalability. Though 40mm2 isn't a big deal, if a 32EU version allows them to put in 2-4 more cores, they might do it. They have an incentive to do so as AMD is introducing higher TDP chips with reduced graphics.

But I still have doubts whether TGL-U is going to be in an actual product, especially with Rocketlake-U in existence.

 

[JasonLD]

But I still have doubts whether TGL-U is going to be in an actual product, especially with Rocketlake-U in existence.

Well, for now, Tiger Lake seems more real than Rocket Lake. Not really sure now if entire Rocket Lake line up is going to happen.

 

[AtenRa]

This is a lie, Icelake is easily available if you want one....unlike the paper launched Renoir, zero devices available. It's fine in the case of Renoir which isn't available but not for Icelake which is available, this speaks for itself. Tigerlake in or or two years is another dumb lie, you really have to try better, otherwise you can't be serious.



Because Renoir won't be able to match Intel in singlethread against Tigerlake, that's why it annoys you. Same with the GPU, AMD falls behind Intel and suddenly it's not relevant anymore.

1. Already available to buy in Germany.

Acer Swift 3 SF314-42-R2VJ grey

Acer Swift 3 SF314-42-R54P grey

2. Tigerlake will not compete against Renoir.

 

[Zucker2k]

Zucker2k just thinks Intel can do no wrong, and they are still king.

How did you reach this conclusion? I said: If they have to, Intel will cut prices. They have done so in the recent past, why won't they do so again?

 

[lobz]

Leaked pricing for Comet Lake. What can I say?

Spoiler: Competition is great!

View attachment 17293Artem S. Tashkinov

It would be nice to see how Intel Core i5 10400F compares to Ryzen 5 3600.

Competition? If this is correct, Intel is practically abandoning the whole DIY market altogether.

 

[uzzi38]

If it is -H, i would say it is 8 core min. Especially for something that is slated for next year.

I'd say 8 cores max. 8 cores alone would push the die size up to 200mm^2, unless they cut out some of the bloat like Thundebolt 4 or the IPU. And this is accounting for a trimmed down iGPU.

 

[lobz]

If it is -H, i would say it is 8 core min. Especially for something that is slated for next year.

Not a very realistic scenario. We have to wait and see.