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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Comet Lake S with 10 cores should be coming later this year,
With the announcement of the 9900KS ("holiday release") we know that isn't happening. It makes sense to do it this way to keep the release cadence to a year and the one after Rocket Lake is 7 nm based but unlikely to be ready until some time in 1H 2022.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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With the announcement of the 9900KS ("holiday release") we know that isn't happening.
Ok I didn't account for that. I could care less about the launch because its very disappointing. Selling factory overclocked CPUs and calling it "enhanced 14nm". Pfft!

That means Rocket Lake based S could be Spring 2021 unless they decide to can Comet Lake to get Rocket Lake a little bit earlier.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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That means Rocket Lake based S could be Spring 2021 unless they decide to can Comet Lake to get Rocket Lake a little bit earlier.
Wouldn't rule it out but I think if they were thinking of cancelling Comet Lake to make room for an earlier Rocket Lake launch I think they would have just released Comet Lake this year.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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There's some good reasons for them.
-CFL already runs too hot. 25% extra cores makes it that much worse. New uarch can help.
-9900KS is a peculiarly tame update. Sometimes they do this to save
engineering for a bigger step later.
-CFL didn't have much competition. CML will have to face Ryzen 3000.

But, this is just speculation.

Interesting the roadmap is showing 10C max for Rocket Lake. I don't think they'll reach the clock speeds of CFL so the overall gain may end up being lower, perhaps 5-10%.
 
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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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-9900KS is a peculiarly tame update. Sometimes they do this to save
engineering for a bigger step later.
They could have released Comet Lake this year, but decided on doing the 9900KS (and perhaps others) instead. I guess my point is Intel made their choice.

It's like the 8086K. Something new but only for a couple months.
 

Spartak

Senior member
Jul 4, 2015
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Ok I didn't account for that. I could care less about the launch because its very disappointing. Selling factory overclocked CPUs and calling it "enhanced 14nm". Pfft!

That means Rocket Lake based S could be Spring 2021 unless they decide to can Comet Lake to get Rocket Lake a little bit earlier.
If Comet Lake still is based on Skylake there really is no point to Comet Lake. The 9900KS is as far as they can bring Skylake. So maybe it's not a reset then, but it's simply canned.

Rocket Lake, however, needs to launch next year or their desktop and server sales will collapse.
 

JasonLD

Senior member
Aug 22, 2017
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If Comet Lake still is based on Skylake there really is no point to Comet Lake. The 9900KS is as far as they can bring Skylake. So maybe it's not a reset then, but it's simply canned.

Rocket Lake, however, needs to launch next year or their desktop and server sales will collapse.
Rocket Lake doesn't have anything to do with servers. It is Cooper and Ice Lake next year, then Sapphire Rapids.
Looking at their roadmap, Intel is definitely determined to hold onto their market on servers and mobile, but at the cost of their desktop market. It is understandable given the situation with their 10nm. After all, desktop market is least important out of those three segments.
 
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Spartak

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Jul 4, 2015
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Rocket Lake doesn't have anything to do with servers. It is Cooper and Ice Lake next year, then Sapphire Rapids.
Looking at their roadmap, Intel is definitely determined to hold onto their market on servers and mobile, but at the cost of their desktop market. It is understandable given the situation with their 10nm. After all, desktop market is least important out of those three segments.
They have Rocket Lake on the roadmap for Xeon E, which is entry level workstation / server.
 
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JasonLD

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They have Rocket Lake on the roadmap for Xeon E, which is entry level workstation / server.
Let me put it this way, Rocket lake doesn't have anything to do with Datacenter/HPC/server category. Which is what I am referring to.
 

Spartak

Senior member
Jul 4, 2015
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Let me put it this way, Rocket lake doesn't have anything to do with Datacenter/HPC/server category. Which is what I am referring to.
This is incredibly annoying behaviour. You might want to look up what "doesn't have anything to do with" means since they do actually have Rocket Lake planned for a specific part of the Xeon line up as I posted in reply to your claim.

You might as well claim Ice Lake doesn't have anything to do with mobile since it's only planned for one specific part of their mobile line-up.
 
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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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If Comet Lake still is based on Skylake there really is no point to Comet Lake. The 9900KS is as far as they can bring Skylake. So maybe it's not a reset then, but it's simply canned.
Comet Lake is IIRC "14+++"; so there might be some benefits there. Plus perhaps some more HW security fixes.

I should add there's no guarantee Rocket Lake is using a Cove core.
 

JasonLD

Senior member
Aug 22, 2017
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This is incredibly annoying behaviour. You might want to look up what "doesn't have anything to do with" means since they do actually have Rocket Lake planned for a specific part of the Xeon line up as I posted in reply to your claim.

You might as well claim Ice Lake doesn't have anything to do with mobile since it's only planned for one specific part of their mobile line-up.
I looked up again on the tweakers leak and yeah, they do have Rocket Lake Xeon E which is also happens to be entry server line up so I guess they should also categorized as server line up.
I apologize then, but I am not sure why you are so upset to put negative reaction which is annoying as hell.
 

Spartak

Senior member
Jul 4, 2015
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I looked up again on the tweakers leak and yeah, they do have Rocket Lake Xeon E which is also happens to be entry server line up so I guess they should also categorized as server line up.
I apologize then, but I am not sure why you are so upset to put negative reaction which is annoying as hell.
Because you respond with a denial to a post where I already stated it is also for Xeon E. Next time first check before you flat out deny what's written in a post.
 
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JasonLD

Senior member
Aug 22, 2017
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Because you respond with a denial to a post where I already stated it is also for Xeon E. Next time first check before you flat out deny what's written in a post.
Well, my argument was based on Cooper Lake and Ice Lake being on the high end server category while Rocket Lake should be categorized as more of a client desktop CPU so countering your argument that desktop and "server" market will collapse without Rocket Lake next year. But I admit it was poorly written argument.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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They have Rocket Lake on the roadmap for Xeon E, which is entry level workstation / server.
Rocket Lake doesn't have anything to do with servers. It is Cooper and Ice Lake next year, then Sapphire Rapids.
Both statements could be said to be correct.

Xeon E is an entry level Xeon that uses the client chip dies. So yes, while it is called Xeon, its not a dedicated server die like recently announced Xeon W, or server Xeon Scalable. Intel's HEDT chips also use server dies.

The dies are the important things.
 
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JoeRambo

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Jun 13, 2013
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It must be horrible for Intel, when 21Q4 roadmap on desktop CPUs has 0 chance to match in throughput AMD products that will be almost 3 years old at that point. And If AMD continues to execute, it could face strong ZEN3 products in the market in single thread performance.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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It's on the Client Commercial roadmap for mobile U/H/G, desktop S and Xeon E, so consumer should be about 9 months earlier.
Thanks. I had seen that before (I think), but I didn't remember Rocket Lake being there in the -S CPUs. So yeah, should be 2020 launch for Rocket Lake. The funny thing is that if we apply the same logic, we should be seeing 10c Comet Lake in Q4 2019, and yet . . .

The dies are the important things.
Kinda makes you wonder what's going into Intel HEDT then. Cascade Lake-X seems inevitable. But after that . . . ?

It must be horrible for Intel, when 21Q4 roadmap on desktop CPUs has 0 chance to match in throughput AMD products that will be almost 3 years old at that point. And If AMD continues to execute, it could face strong ZEN3 products in the market in single thread performance.
Intel's only hope is to get Golden Cove working in the labs and then roll it out on 7nm in 2021. Or something like that.
 

french toast

Senior member
Feb 22, 2017
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Comet Lake is IIRC "14+++"; so there might be some benefits there. Plus perhaps some more HW security fixes.

I should add there's no guarantee Rocket Lake is using a Cove core.
True, but I feel the timing is right for Intel to be able to pull that off, Rocket Lake 10 core Sunny Cove on super 14nm+++ could be a decent chip actually, in gaming and Single thread it probably would lay waste to Ryzen 3000..even if a higher binned Ryzen came out.
Problem is it would still get decimated in Mt and efficiency, worse still Ryzen 4000 will join the fight Q3 next year on 7nm+...probably with a few extra %IPC (2-5%) and frequency headroom @ iso power.
Rocket Lake with SunnyCove and 14nm+++ looks like a solid proposition, but if Rocket Lake is another Skylake core, well then Intel has just completely lost the Desktop market after 15 years of dominating it.
Edit; Also Icelake 15w looks like a really good product indeed, against Raven Ridge it looks like a no brainer, Intel also has a very interesting 5w product in the pipeline with ferveros tech, but again rumours of AMD Launching Renoir by years end would make things difficult as Navi mobile on 7nm would surely decimate GEN11, especially if we get lpddr4x... Or lpddr5?..
Sunny Cove would still have a sizable ST lead, depending on whether AMD uses 7+ and can push clocks up.
Other elephant in the room is those 10nm yields and OEM prices and availability, if yields are still low, then there will be low numbers of chips probably at increased prices, so AMD would get sales in even if Icelake Y is a better product.
Time will tell.
 
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birdie

Member
Jan 12, 2019
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New ICL-U results in PassMark CPU benchmark:

So far it looks very competitive for its turbo frequency.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,650
5,659
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New ICL-U results in PassMark CPU benchmark:

So far it looks very competitive for its turbo frequency.
I would hope so. AMD isn't bringing their "A" game to the mobile segment anyway. Intel will continue to dominate there for awhile. Not sure what to say about Comet Lake though.
 

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