Question Intel CEO says the industry should stop using benchmarks [PCGamer]

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uzzi38

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I see nothing wrong with comparing different laptop models at different prices even if they have different GPUs. If someone is after performance then he/she will choose whats faster and cheaper. In the comparisons Intel made, they're just that.

Then you should never get into comparisons regarding any products ever.

Maybe AMD should focus on getting GPUs faster than a 2060 max q into their laptop models.

Or maybe Intel could stop providing excellent GPU comparisons with every new set of benchmark slides they release. See the 3 year old PC claims they also made that I believe feature a 1080Ti (they pulled this stunt on the -H slides, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again on the -S slides here.
 
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tamz_msc

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Then you should never get into comparisons regarding any products ever.
The Zephyrus G14 is a worse choice compared to the MSI GE65 if the only thing I'm after is price and performance. That's the point Intel is trying to get across.
Or maybe Intel could stop providing excellent GPU comparisons with every new set of benchmark slides they release. See the 3 year old PC claims they also made that I believe feature a 1080Ti (they pulled this stunt on the -H slides, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again on the -S slides here.
The 3-year-old claims are all done with the same GPU.
 

uzzi38

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The Zephyrus G14 is a worse choice compared to the MSI GE65 if the only thing I'm after is price and performance. That's the point Intel is trying to get across.

And the other devices are completely missing from the comparison whilst Intel claims they provide better value across the board.
See: the A15 etc etc

Oh I'm sorry, they only used DDR4-2133mhz instead vs the DDR4-2933mhz for Comet Lake.

Great comparison points here.
 
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tamz_msc

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And the other devices are completely missing from the comparison.
See: the A15 etc etc
The A15 isn't much faster than the G14 - maybe 15% best case.
Oh I'm sorry, they only used DDR4-2133mhz instead vs the DDR4-2933mhz for Comet Lake.
That's Anandtech's policy when reviewing CPUs. Nothing wrong with that. It's likely that if you are upgrading from a three year old PC then you'll buy faster RAM.
 

uzzi38

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The A15 isn't much faster than the G14 - maybe 15% best case.

That's Anandtech's policy when reviewing CPUs. Nothing wrong with that. It's likely that if you are upgrading from a three year old PC then you'll buy faster RAM.
Anandtech's policy is to use what the CPUs are rated for. The 7700K is also rated for DDR4-2400.

Not to mention no information on timings is uh, fun.

The A15 is also notably cheaper. Intel are making a value comparison taking the most expensive device in the smallest chassis, but do their claims of highest value change in a much larger and cheaper chassis?
 
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coercitiv

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I see nothing wrong with comparing different laptop models at different prices even if they have different GPUs.
The point wasn't the benchmark specifics, but continued and complete reliance on benchmarks to advertise their products and drive sales. They need to prove performance supremacy even when they don't have it, because they have nothing else to replace it with as USP.

Intel is simply not prepared to change the narrative from benchmarks to benefits and impacts of their technology. They can't switch to price, to security, to efficiency, to unique feature set (in the consumer space).
 

tamz_msc

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The A15 is also notably cheaper. Intel are making a value comparison taking the most expensive device in the smallest chassis, but do their claims of highest value change in a much larger and cheaper chassis?
The A15 is $1200. MSI GL65 is $1300. While this certainly makes the AMD laptop $100 cheaper, the Intel one is still going to be faster.
 

tamz_msc

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They need to prove performance supremacy even when they don't have it
Games. Gaming performance is all Intel has to tout right now. You bet that they'll go the extra mile to drive home this fact. That's what they're doing with these slides. Its too bad AMD is woefully incompetent in this regard. They need their own Ryan Shrout. At least they'll avoid making blunders like passing off 3DMark performance as gaming performance. Maybe AdoredTV might be worth hiring.
 

uzzi38

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The A15 is $1200. MSI GL65 is $1300. While this certainly makes the AMD laptop $100 cheaper, the Intel one is still going to be faster.
Which leads us back to value, which if you remember was the comparison Intel was making. They even underlined 'at a lower price' at the end because that is the comparison they're making here. Not overall performance. (By the way, if you're wondering why the prices are from 28th April for a pretty new set of slides, it's because the GL65 is now at $1399 on Amazon in the US whereas the A15 is still MSRP)

Besides, all the games chosen here are notoriously worse on Ryzen barring F1 2019 and R6S (which isn't CPU bound with a mobile 2060 so heh).

So anyway, you take the A15 in this comparison and suddenly you have a device that in gaming provides effectively the same value in gaming and more value in productivity. This slide is worthless.
 
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tamz_msc

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By the way, if you're wondering why the prices are from 28th April for a pretty new set of slides
That doesn't mean anything - maybe the tests were conducted on 28th April?
Which leads us back to value, which if you remember was the comparison Intel was making.
They also drove home the point of value with the 9300H in the Lenovo Legion vs the 4800H in the ASUS Tuf.
 

tamz_msc

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Is there a comparison between these two laptops somewhere, or are you only assuming that the MSI laptop is going to be faster?
If you believe Intel's claims that is. It's a simple analysis to make. The Tuf A15 is 15% ahead of the G14 best case and adding 15% to the baseline provided by Intel still means that the A15 will be 5% behind the GL65.

That's not important, Intel also made two other comparisons. I see that people are conveniently ignoring those.
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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I don't think that the performance gains with Zen 3 will be large enough for AMD to score anything more than technical wins in gaming. It'll be the same as now except with Intel and AMD swapping positions.
That was the point: I was talking about Intel losing the opportunity to claim leadership in gaming, not AMD scoring a meaningful win.
 
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DrMrLordX

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Intel isn't releasing any new desktop hardware this year. Rocket Lake is next year. What is Intel going to do to make anything in their current product lineup to "swap positions" with Zen3? They're just going to fall further behind in everything.
 

Kuiva maa

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Games. Gaming performance is all Intel has to tout right now. You bet that they'll go the extra mile to drive home this fact. That's what they're doing with these slides. Its too bad AMD is woefully incompetent in this regard. They need their own Ryan Shrout. At least they'll avoid making blunders like passing off 3DMark performance as gaming performance. Maybe AdoredTV might be worth hiring.

I think the last thing AMD needs is a Ryan Shrout. All these marketing practices are frowned upon in the opinion leader circles.