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Intel Broadwell

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He's just guessing based on months old rumors. There's no reason to assume that Intel won't release LGA. They never make such sudden changes. Maybe they'll drop it after several successive generations of more BGA models but I doubt that too.
 
BTW I would recommend that the OP change the topic title to remove the "6 core" speculation. Then this would be a good place for all upcoming Broadwell speculation.
 
Edrick said:
Source?
Click to expand...


Instead Broadwell we get a Haswell refresh for LGA next year because Broadwell will be BGA only. Several news available:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/long-li...-a-midterm-refresh-is-on-the-cards/33920.html
http://chinese.vr-zone.com/60095/ha...ddr4-memory-supposed-arrive-2014-q4-04192013/
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/ubiq/20121122_574440.html
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/26/intel-kills-off-the-desktop-pcs-go-with-it/

Or here:

There will be no LGA Broadwell CPU for the desktop and workstation platform. Instead new sku of the Haswell CPU will be introduced to extend the design on the desktop and workstation product line in year 2014. Hence, it will be known as a Haswell-Refresh cycle for both the sharkbay and denlow platform.
Click to expand...
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=542134


Anand reported it as well in one of his tweets. Broadwell BGA only is nothing new anymore, you guys should accept it finally.
 
If that is true, Intel will delay the tick/tock schedule with a full year for the first time. There are some interesting implications:

  • Socket 1150 will last for 3 years, one more than recent sockets
  • There might be 3 chipset refreshes on 1150, but assuming this is true all we know is that Z97 arrives next year. For people who are debating upgrading it might be worth to hold on until Z97 for SATA Express since they will still be able to upgrade their CPU after that.
  • Something went wrong with 14nm
  • Will the Haswell "refresh" be OEM rebranding and speed bumps that are already available from OC, or will _real_ progress be made?
  • DDR4 support for mainstream (rumored for Skylake) is delayed by 1 year. Will Intel validate higher speed DDR3 than 1600? Or lower voltage than 1.5v?
 
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Just wondering, what is likely to be the main focus for Broadwell? Any of this:

* IGP
* Higher CPU frequency (will we even see any increase, or has the wall already been hit?)
* Lower TDP
* IPC improvements
* More cores
* Will focus be on Ultrabooks, All-In-One (AIO) PCs, or desktop PCs?
* Anything else?
 
CakeMonster said:
If that is true, Intel will delay the tick/tock schedule with a full year for the first time. There are some interesting implications:

  • Socket 1150 will last for 3 years, one more than recent sockets
  • There might be 3 chipset refreshes on 1150, but assuming this is true all we know is that Z97 arrives next year. For people who are debating upgrading it might be worth to hold on until Z97 for SATA Express since they will still be able to upgrade their CPU after that.
  • Something went wrong with 14nm
  • Will the Haswell "refresh" be OEM rebranding and speed bumps that are already available from OC, or will _real_ progress be made?
  • DDR4 support for mainstream (rumored for Skylake) is delayed by 1 year. Will Intel validate higher speed DDR3 than 1600? Or lower voltage than 1.5v?
Click to expand...


Skylake isn't delayed.

2014= Broadwell BGA only, Haswell refresh LGA1150
2015= SKlyake BGA+LGA for mobile/desktop
 
You keep repeating that claim, but this article says the opposite. It specifically states Broadwell for 2015.

So, our Computex sources advised us to give more focus on the Haswell, as we’ll be stuck with it pretty much until early 2015 at least; that’s the current Broadwell launch timeframe, too bad.
Click to expand...
 
Fjodor2001 said:
Just wondering, what is likely to be the main focus for Broadwell? Any of this:

* IGP
* Higher CPU frequency (will we even see any increase, or has the wall already been hit?)
* Lower TDP
* IPC improvements
* More cores
* Will focus be on Ultrabooks, All-In-One (AIO) PCs, or desktop PCs?
* Anything else?
Click to expand...


Faster graphics (up to GT4 graphics architecture overhaul (Gen8), lower power and better efficiency. Here is a good overview: http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=542134

Ultrabook and Tablet is very important for Intel. Quadcore Broadwell is coming in 2H 2014 with up to GT4 graphics. This is all BGA. We might see Broadwell based 4C GT4 for all in one PCs.
 
mrmt said:
Haswell is 22nm, Broadwell is 14nm, how can you relate the two designs in a parameter where process node plays a pivotal role?
Click to expand...

While the TDP will be lower for Broadwell, the actual die will also be much smaller than Haswell, ergo, the heat flux per unit time will increase an thus the temperature will, in all likelihood, be higher for a given clock speed. This is inevitable so long as CPU makers continue with CMOS designs. Now, material changes can mitigate this to some extent, but the ultimate trajectory doesn't look good as far as desktop performance goes. There is a a chart floating around somewhere where Intel graphs out temperature vs. node size and shows it approximating the temperature of the sun (or some such thing, IDC probably has it saved in his vast arsenal of charts, graphs and equations).

If Intel's goal was desktop performance as opposed to lower mobile TDPs, then they could change the die layout somewhat (floor plan) and use a better TIM and even change the electrical properties of the transistors which would result in higher switching speeds at higher voltages (and bump up the TDP to > 100 W). But that's not the direction Intel is taking. Currently Intel is optimizing for faster switching speeds at lower voltages. You can see this visually on page 20 of This Intel Presentation. Even with servers, they are going for more cores at the same power draw for succeeding generations.

There is another mitigating factor called Dark Silicon and it has been discusses on AT before. There is a paper on it -> here <- that is not too technical.

I hope I've answered your question, I didn't ask for clarification be posting.
 
Ajay said:
"Haswell Refresh Platform" is Broadwell and will be LGA for at least for quad core i5s and i7s. Notice the "Haswell/Lynx Point - LGA 1050" text towards the lower portion of the slide.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. Note the top of that slide- 14nm only arrives with Skylake, with the Haswell Refresh Platform being Haswell, not Broadwell. I believe that it refers to the new chipsets.
 
Any thoughts on whether 14nm or 10nm mobile parts will have quad channel memory? Quad channel ddr4 would be very nice for igpu.
 
NTMBK said:
No it isn't. Note the top of that slide- 14nm only arrives with Skylake, with the Haswell Refresh Platform being Haswell, not Broadwell. I believe that it refers to the new chipsets.
Click to expand...

Has this lineup been changed?

IntelProcessorRoadmap-3.svg
 
imported_bman said:
Any thoughts on whether 14nm or 10nm mobile parts will have quad channel memory? Quad channel ddr4 would be very nice for igpu.
Click to expand...

ShintaiDK said:
None. It requires too many traces.
Click to expand...

I don't know if DDR4 will change that, but last I checked we don't see DDR4 till Haswell-E and Skylake (2015) at the desktop level. Haswell-E may still be quad channeled, because the high end Enthusiast motherboards are typically more expensive than desktop motherboards. Server motherboards will likely stay quad channel down to 10nm, if not smaller, again with DDR4, because it's easier to add layers (and cost) to the boards especially as core counts go up. Once Intel get's to 7nm, I have no idea what they will do - they'll need the bandwidth, so it may be sufficient for the on package RAM (LLC in Haswell w/Iris Pro) to be on die and even larger and wider. Will we see server CPUs with an LLC? May you live in interesting times...


PS Nice find ShintaiDK!
 
mikk said:
Not really. These slide is very very old and just a random speculation from a news writer. DDR4 should come in 2014 for the Haswell refresh.
Click to expand...

Have plans for DDR4 been accelerated? Previously (last year), full out mass production wasn't expected till 2015 (with high availability for Servers and specialty markets in 2014). Maybe consolidation in the DRAM markets has allowed for more $$s to be pumped into process development and CAPEX?
 
Ajay said:
Have plans for DDR4 been accelerated? Previously (last year), full out mass production wasn't expected till 2015 (with high availability for Servers and specialty markets in 2014). Maybe consolidation in the DRAM markets has allowed for more $$s to be pumped into process development and CAPEX?
Click to expand...


Because Broadwell mobile supports DDR4 (and DDR3) mid 2014 I see it possible. Pay attention to this Roadmap: http://chinese.vr-zone.com/60095/ha...ddr4-memory-supposed-arrive-2014-q4-04192013/

There are yellow borders on Haswell refresh, Haswell-E and on the bottom Airmont. The news claims DDR4 support for Haswell-E (which is nothing new). The yellow borders look to me that they clarify DDR4. On IDF this year Intel told DDR4 will start in Mainstream 2014, here a news: http://www.computerbase.de/news/2013-04/arbeitsspeichertechnologien-zum-idf-spring-2013/
 
Ajay said:
Has this lineup been changed?

IntelProcessorRoadmap-3.svg
Click to expand...

That's just a random image off Wikipedia. 😕

But no, the lineup hasn't changed as such- Broadwell is coming, just not to desktop. That slide showing no Broadwell says "desktop platform" at the top.
 
Why are we arguing wether or not - 14nm is coming or not?
Even WITH 22nm - and no 6 core mainstream we should be disappointed.

I know intel values perf\wat now - but they should help push the boundries.
Software development sure as hell isn't going to up the ante and get the most of the metal.

Software would be forced however to write more parallel bases - if there was much more parallel availeble from the start.
 
NTMBK said:
That slide looks pretty old, and incomplete. It has almost no Broadwell information, and it misses the 65W GT3e Haswell R-series.
Click to expand...


Haswell ULX GT3 is wrong too. As I said it was just a random speculation from someone. This is nothing from Intel.
 
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