Review Intel 10th Generation Comet Lake-S Review Thread

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Zucker2k

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Review information on the soon-to-be-released 10th generation desktop lineup, as well as all relevant information will be linked in this thread. OP will be updated as information becomes available in the next few days. Please, post links to reputable sites you want to see in the OP, and I'll add them. Thanks!

Anandtech
Phoronix (Linux Benchmarks)
LTT (YouTube Video)
Gamers Nexus
Euro Gamer
ComputerBase.de
Back2Gaming
HWUB (YouTube Video)
Sweclockers
Nordic Hardware


Reviews Roundup on VideoCardz
 
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Zucker2k

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Ok, if your basing it off of OEM offerings, then we're just talking about different things and I generally agree with you on those points :)
OEM offerings are very much a part of "general desktop computing" and constitute, by far, the biggest percentage of functional desktop systems in operation, so any conclusive discussion about desktop chips must include those. Why do you think I keep referencing general desktop computing?
 

Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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OEM offerings are very much a part of "general desktop computing" and constitute, by far, the biggest percentage of functional desktop systems in operation, so any conclusive discussion about desktop chips must include those. Why do you think I keep referencing general desktop computing?

This is an enthusiast forum geared towards enthusiasts and DiYers. If your argument is strictly on OEMs then what is there to discuss? Just buy the fastest machine in your price range and be done with it. I just figured people here wanted to discuss from a more enthusiast and informed decision than a typical OEM cheap box build (even most of the expensive OEM machines cut corners left and right to save on bom and if it is high quality, it's going to cost way more than just building it yourself).
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Dominates is a bit of an exaggeration:

View attachment 23237

But maybe we can be more specific. I can give you an example of multiple applications/usage scenarios that I use that give me tangible value added benefits from CPUs with many cores all being loaded. From CAD simulations, to transcoding, to compiling, to heavy multitasking without interruption, all enabling me to accomplish significantly more work in a given day and have a 100% smooth computing experience. Now, what is the value add that I would get buying a 10900k over say a R5 3600 or a 10600K or even a 3300x, in a lightly threaded, low compute work environment?
It's not a bit of an exaggeration.... it is a pretty hysterical exaggeration and it's not used by accident.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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This is an enthusiast forum geared towards enthusiasts and DiYers. If your argument is strictly on OEMs then what is there to discuss? Just buy the fastest machine in your price range and be done with it. I just figured people here wanted to discuss from a more enthusiast and informed decision than a typical OEM cheap box build (even most of the expensive OEM machines cut corners left and right to save on bom and if it is high quality, it's going to cost way more than just building it yourself).
Not strictly on OEMs. I'm talking about client desktop, which covers everything from OEM to BYOPC, and everything in-between.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
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It doesn't. The 10900k dominates in 99% of everything that's not multi-threaded on the desktop, including gaming; and in multi-threading, it only loses to chips with 20% and 60% more cores.

The average "general desktop" user will not feel a lick of difference between a 1600AF, a 3100, a 10300, a 3900X, or a 10900K. All of those will feel fast with a decent SSD. Heck a 2600k probably feels just fine for general desktop usage. “Dominating” in this case is like the guy pumping his fist and gloating about the difference his $20,000 speaker wires make listening to his CDs.


I'm supposed to take your use case and draw general conclusions? Not possible. What you're arguing here is that you're not willing to take an average 5% hit in multithreaded workloads and be faster in almost everything else. Obviously, you have a special use case where that 5% provides more value to you so that's that.

Lol. This is the SAME argument you are making for 10900k! You’re not willing to take a 5% hit in gaming for better productivity performance and a cheaper price point?

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Tweaktown - "Fastest Gaming CPU: This is still a nebulous claim as it depends on the resolution. I know plenty of people rocking 9900K or 8700K CPUs that game at 1440P or higher, so that performance leadership is heavily dependent on users running 1080p. Once the resolution scales upwards, it can become a wash."


Look, a use case can definitely be made for a 10900k. IMO that would be 1080p gaming (or 1440p & lowered settings) with a high-refresh monitor and a really expensive GPU & someone who needs to get some productivity work done too. If just the first requirement, a 10600k would probably be indistinguishable from it's more expensive older brother. But to act like buying a 10900k will make someone the uber, dominating user in 99% of all desktops apps is simply not true.
 

Reliant

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Mar 29, 2001
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I've read conflicting reports. Are all the Z490 boards hiding hardware for PCI 4.0 for the next Intel CPU? I saw that MSI and Gigabyte were, but then saw that ASUS MIGHT be. I'd hate to get a Z490 board now and then get a 3000 series GPU and have that be bottle necked by the bus.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
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I've read conflicting reports. Are all the Z490 boards hiding hardware for PCI 4.0 for the next Intel CPU? I saw that MSI and Gigabyte were, but then saw that ASUS MIGHT be. I'd hate to get a Z490 board now and then get a 3000 series GPU and have that be bottle necked by the bus.

Even if the 3080Ti is twice as fast as a 5700XT (roughly 32% faster than a 2080Ti at 4k), there should be no way it saturates a x16 PCI-E 3.0 slot. Techpowerup tested a 5700XT and found insignificant differences between 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0.

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Even with a 2080Ti on the equivalent of a x8 PCI-E 2.0 slot, performance was only down 6%.

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SAAA

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May 14, 2014
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So... According to some in this thread 10900K is the best because a) it has the highest single thread performance and b) 10 cores is ideal number of cores for multi-threaded workloads because 8 is too few and 12 is too much, and 16 is completely unnecessary.

LOL
Their argument might be lost but I feel you are also missing one point. It's not about 10 cores being the good sweet spot vs 6, 8, 12 or 16.
The fact is that many, many applications like fast "cores/threads" better. So far Skyalke nth iteration at 5+ GHz is still very competitive, and the most of those cores you can get is, d'ho, 10. So yes, 10 cores is a good spot as it will run with that advantage up to 10 threads at once (more is hyper threaded cores that doesn't scale as well), meanwhile a 8700k or 9900k will stop at 6 or 8 with the linear scaling. So unless the applications you are running are all embarassingly parallel those 10 cores will run faster than say a 12 core where each threads performs like a 4.5GHz skylake.

Of course the day Zen 3 is released if it performs faster than skylake at any usable speed this arguments falls: more cores and each faster will be better full stop.
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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Their argument might be lost but I feel you are also missing one point. It's not about 10 cores being the good sweet spot vs 6, 8, 12 or 16.
The fact is that many, many applications like fast "cores/threads" better. So far Skyalke nth iteration at 5+ GHz is still very competitive, and the most of those cores you can get is, d'ho, 10. So yes, 10 cores is a good spot as it will run with that advantage up to 10 threads at once (more is hyper threaded cores that doesn't scale as well), meanwhile a 8700k or 9900k will stop at 6 or 8 with the linear scaling. So unless the applications you are running are all embarassingly parallel those 10 cores will run faster than say a 12 core where each threads performs like a 4.5GHz skylake.
This is a mix of arguments that run very close to circular reasoning. Yes, it has best available ST performance and yes it does scale to 10 core loads without sacrificing light threaded performance in hybrid loads, but the argument that is better than both 6, 8 and 12, 16 cores is a fabrication in which we pick and chose workloads and product properties to arrive at a conclusion: we use lower clocked 6, 8 Skylake cores, we use completely different arch for 12, 16 cores, and then we talk about both lightly threaded and multi-threaded workloads like they both matter as much at the same time. This is the part that I challenge, fabricating a fantasy workload profile because 10900K happens to have the best binned cores and biggest core count in the Intel lineup. There is still a point where having more than 6 core is futile, and there is still a point where having more than 10 cores is relevant.

Back when 8700K showed up the perfect balance was 6 cores, followed by 8 cores with 9900K(S), and now it's 10 cores? What if the ring bus was stretched to it's limits and CML had 12 cores? Where is the point where we draw the line and conclude that a certain number of cores is prosumer material and that prosumer will choose based on experience and specific workload benchmarks, not wide spectrum reviews and/or suppositions made by forum members about what the prosumer needs?

Photoshop is commonly used as example for a professional tool that requires best hybrid performance for best results, and yet I wonder how many of the forum members here understand that this tool has so many use cases with such varying computing needs that declaring a best PC for Photoshop in a vacuum is pointless, like declaring the best PC for programming. You wouldn't even know the memory requirements, let alone CPU core count needs.

The 10900K is a great CPU, Intel engineers did a good job with improving thermal performance to maximize what 10c Skylake can do, but let's face it: the 6c/12t is the benchmark for best consumer performance, and everything above it requires clear considerations about the nature of workloads being used. Otherwise we're talking about winning benchmarks while real-world results might be subject to massive diminishing returns to the point where the common user can barely observe any difference.

Of course the day Zen 3 is released if it performs faster than skylake at any usable speed this arguments falls: more cores and each faster will be better full stop.
Wait until Rocket Lake and the moment when the best sweet spot becomes 8.
 

Zucker2k

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Feb 15, 2006
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No, 10 cores is not the "sweet spot." We just happen to have a 10 core chip that does everything almost everything better than any other chip on the desktop.. You'd have to look beyond 10 cores to find something that beats it soundly, and only in specific, highly parallelized workloads.

The 10900K is a great CPU....
Why?
 

Zucker2k

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Feb 15, 2006
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Because it's the fastest CPU for someone who has no clear idea what they're going to use it for, and no obvious budget limitation.
So, if you get an 8 core, a 12 core, or a 16 core, you know what you want to use it for, but a 10 core suddenly makes your brain foggy as to its uses? LOL!

I recognize what your answer is, and whether intended or not, you hit the nail right on the head: The 10900k is a real swiss army knife of a processor! Sorry, I'm laughing here, but yeah, this is why the 10900k is the best desktop cpu because that's the ultimate compliment you can give a desktop cpu.
 
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coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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So, if you get an 8 core, a 12 core, or a 16 core, you know what you want to use it for, but a 10 core suddenly makes your brain foggy as to its uses? LOL!
That's your skewed interpretation, not mine.

The fact is you're comfortable arguing the average consumer has little need for the big number of cores that AMD is offering, but you're suddenly very uncomfortable admitting the same is true for Intel - the i5 with 6c/12t offers an extremely tempting value proposition for the average consumer, just as the 3600 did and still does. Anything beyond 6 cores requires some thought and measure, but people can go there with or without having proper understanding of their compute needs. If you don't understand what your needs are but would still like to buy a premium product, go with 10900K. That is not an insult, and not ironic. It's a dead serious purchasing advice.

I recognize what your answer is, and whether intended or not, you hit the nail right on the head: The 10900k is a real swiss army knife of a processor! Sorry, I'm laughing here, but yeah, this is why the 10900k is the best desktop cpu because that's the ultimate compliment you can give a desktop cpu.
It was very much intended, but remember the swiss army knife is not the optimal tool for most people. Once you know what to expect, the proper tool will be faster, cheaper, or both. There is a case to be made for 10900K being the best CPU hands down for people who know what they need, but those people fall in a niche category.

We have a real-world example of how this plays out right here on our forum: someone with little experience but generous budget wants to build a semiprofessional rig and is asking for CPU advice. Since premium products look better in benchmarks and the OP does intend to work in SolidWorks and video editing, the target is immediately set to top premium products from both companies, with advocates for both 10900K and 3900X. Some people in that thread try to point out the OP has huge bottlenecks in storage and software, but still the discussion focuses more on eye-catching specs: pure % differences CPU benchmarks, PCIe 4.0 storage bandwidth (another deceitful metric, this time for people who don't understand their storage speed requirements).

That user should buy the 10900K, not because he needs it (we simply don't know that at this point), but because it is the least likely purchase to keep a computing bottleneck in his system. We're advising him to buy the most premium and overbuilt swiss army knife because we cannot establish if he needs a scalpel or a Philips screwdriver.
 
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amrnuke

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Apr 24, 2019
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The 10900k is a real swiss army knife of a processor! Sorry, I'm laughing here, but yeah, this is why the 10900k is the best desktop cpu because that's the ultimate compliment you can give a desktop cpu.
To add on to coercitiv:
That's an absurd measuring stick. Every consumer processor from each of the last 3 generations from AMD and Intel are swiss army knives and can complete any common task on the PC. Are they all the best CPU?
 

Zucker2k

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To add on to coercitiv:
That's an absurd measuring stick. Every consumer processor from each of the last 3 generations from AMD and Intel are swiss army knives and can complete any common task on the PC. Are they all the best CPU?
In the context of a debate that is essentially weighting the value of a processor on the desktop from single/few core performance to highly parallel workload performance, nothing touches the 10900k from 1 core all the way to 10 cores. You cannot say the same about the only two other chips that convincingly beat the 10900k, because where they beat the 10900k matters.
In the desktop environment, at the moment, by the time you saturate the 10 cores of a 10900k, you are well in 1% territory. And to use anything other than the 10900k at this point means that you have to make sacrifices in the single/few cores department. This is not a good thing, imho, for a uber/halo chip, where a buyer is forced to accept compromises in relation to lesser/few core chips from a performance and price perspective. Intel's 6, 8, and 10 cores all do very well against both the 3900x and 3950x in many single/few core scenarios. The same cannot be said of the 10900k - it totally dominates everything that is not 12 cores or 16 cores, on the desktop.
In the nutshell, in an environment where 1% or less can tap anything greater than the full power of a 10900k, and can only do so with lots of compromises in far more common usage scenarios, the 10900k is undoubtedly the superior desktop chip, imho.
 

fleshconsumed

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Feb 21, 2002
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In the context of a debate that is essentially weighting the value of a processor on the desktop from single/few core performance to highly parallel workload performance, nothing touches the 10900k from 1 core all the way to 10 cores. You cannot say the same about the only two other chips that convincingly beat the 10900k, because where they beat the 10900k matters.
In the desktop environment, at the moment, by the time you saturate the 10 cores of a 10900k, you are well in 1% territory. And to use anything other than the 10900k at this point means that you have to make sacrifices in the single/few cores department. This is not a good thing, imho, for a uber/halo chip, where a buyer is forced to accept compromises in relation to lesser/few core chips from a performance and price perspective. Intel's 6, 8, and 10 cores all do very well against both the 3900x and 3950x in many single/few core scenarios. The same cannot be said of the 10900k - it totally dominates everything that is not 12 cores or 16 cores, on the desktop.
In the nutshell, in an environment where 1% or less can tap anything greater than the full power of a 10900k, and can only do so with lots of compromises in far more common usage scenarios, the 10900k is undoubtedly the superior desktop chip, imho.
You're making a subjective call that most users only use software that scales up to 10 cores, but not beyond that. Therefore 10900K is the best.

Arguably, 99.9% of people don't need more than 8 cores. Those who do need more, typically need as many cores as their budget allows which is where AMD beats Intel hands down.

You have literally based your entire argument that 10900K is best on a single edge case of an application that scales up to 10 cores and 10 cores only. When in reality that's rarely the case, I don't know any app that scales precisely up to 10 cores (I do know one that scales up to exactly 8 however).

10900K is a fine CPU if you need extra 5-8% single thread performance and don't mind paying more and dealing with extra heat. Otherwise AMD offerings are clearly superior.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
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The same cannot be said of the 10900k - it totally dominates everything that is not 12 cores or 16 cores, on the desktop.

Me thinks you have a very different definition of the word "dominates" than the rest of the world. Multiple people in this thread have shown you examples of desktop activities where the 10900k is indistinguishable from 6- and 8-core processors. The only way it's "dominating" in those cases is its price.
 
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amrnuke

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Apr 24, 2019
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In the context of a debate that is essentially weighting the value of a processor on the desktop from single/few core performance to highly parallel workload performance, nothing touches the 10900k from 1 core all the way to 10 cores. You cannot say the same about the only two other chips that convincingly beat the 10900k, because where they beat the 10900k matters.
In the desktop environment, at the moment, by the time you saturate the 10 cores of a 10900k, you are well in 1% territory. And to use anything other than the 10900k at this point means that you have to make sacrifices in the single/few cores department. This is not a good thing, imho, for a uber/halo chip, where a buyer is forced to accept compromises in relation to lesser/few core chips from a performance and price perspective. Intel's 6, 8, and 10 cores all do very well against both the 3900x and 3950x in many single/few core scenarios. The same cannot be said of the 10900k - it totally dominates everything that is not 12 cores or 16 cores, on the desktop.
In the nutshell, in an environment where 1% or less can tap anything greater than the full power of a 10900k, and can only do so with lots of compromises in far more common usage scenarios, the 10900k is undoubtedly the superior desktop chip, imho.
If we are talking about value and performance/price now, I think you ought to check your subsequent claims.

The 10900K is a suboptimal value proposition for the majority of desktop users and, truth be told, probably the majority of DIY builders. And it's not the best tool for every job.

Tell me, the 3950X is within 10% of the 10900K in gaming at 1080p and roughly on par (within 5-10%) in single-threaded benchmarks. It also holds massive advantages in multithreaded apps. How is that "lots of compromises"? If you're picking the 10900K, you get the same compromises - you have to give up the multithreaded crown to get the best single/lightly threaded crown.

The 10900K isn't the best value, and it's certainly not the best sweet spot chip for the majority of desktop users, or for that matter, DIY builders.
 

Kenmitch

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Oct 10, 1999
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Me thinks you have a very different definition of the word "dominates" than the rest of the world.

When Zen 3 comes out I guess we'll see if he refrains from using the word dominates. I'm guessing he'll switch to something less favorable when Intel looses all of it's advantages. Then again there's always the clock speeds....lol
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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When Zen 3 comes out I guess we'll see if he refrains from using the word dominates. I'm guessing he'll switch to something less favorable when Intel looses all of it's advantages. Then again there's always the clock speeds....lol
When Zen 3 comes the focus will shift towards RKL-S and the new 8 core sweet spot. It's going to be mighty interesting as Zen 3 itself will have a sweet spot at 8 cores.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
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Me thinks you have a very different definition of the word "dominates" than the rest of the world. Multiple people in this thread have shown you examples of desktop activities where the 10900k is indistinguishable from 6- and 8-core processors. The only way it's "dominating" in those cases is its price.
Maybe you should just post the definition here from a reputable online dictionary so that everyone can see you're wrong?
If you're picking the 10900K, you get the same compromises - you have to give up the multithreaded crown to get the best single/lightly threaded crown.
The difference here is that, the 3900x and the 3950x lose in far more single/lightly threaded scenarios, and not only to the 10900k, but even 6 core and 8 core Intel chips! In other words, your specific workload must be throughput-oriented, and run better on AMD to justify getting the HEDT R9 chips. That's called niche.
The 10900K isn't the best value, and it's certainly not the best sweet spot chip for the majority of desktop users, or for that matter, DIY builders.
Are you still talking about the 10900k v 3900x v 3950x?

Edit: @Markfw and @DAPUNISHER are you two going to debunk my arguments or vote down my answers?

Edit2: I know you're exercising your rights, as forum members, but you've been at it for a while now and I'd rather hear your arguments. Thank you!
 
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