Insurance giant AIG to pay $165 million in bonuses

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Dari
I don't have an opinion on this topic but I just wanted to remind everyone that bonuses in the financial industry are different from elsewhere. In the financial industry, they are roughly half of what employees make in the whole year. So bonuses mean far more than elsewhere.

What's the average salary of those receiving the bonuses, sans bonus?

I don't think you'll find too many crying eyes for these poor, abused finance "wizards" who have fucked the country to the tune of trillions of dollars. They deserve leg irons, not bonuses.

even without the bonuses, the finance industry was one of the highest paid industries around

 

[First]

And it's not bonuses in general that are bad, it's whom they're given to that should piss people off. The jerkoffs floating assets they didn't know the risk to was asinine as hell, but some dude in Compliance shouldn't get shafted on his bonus when he has nothing to do with the trading of his firm's assets. Company moral is important after all, and bonuses, even about half of it is taxed, is usually several thousand dollars at good firms. But AIG has been especially guilty of over-extending their reach by insuring terrible securities, their collapse was by far more pathetic than anyone else's.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Makes me sick. These dicks got rich through cowboy business practices that helped drive the world into the dirt, and now they're getting even richer through bailouts. These guys are criminals, and they're ripping off Joe Public and getting away with it. All in the full view of the public.

All the while they're going on about the "free market" and how great it is, and then asking for bailouts. What a massive contradiction. Bunch of utter and complete assholes. I hope they rot.

These fucking companies need to be regulated.

 

[Xellos2099]

You don;t seems to understand what kjill AIG. It is the mortgage insurance.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Obama: I'll try to stop AIG bonuses

WASHINGTON, D.C. (CNNMoney.com) -- President Barack Obama said on Monday that he wants to block the $165 million in bonuses paid to senior executives of American International Group.

"It's hard to understand how derivative traders at AIG warranted any bonuses," Obama said.

Obama said he has asked Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner to use the government's role as a majority owner of the troubled insurance company and "every legal avenue" to stop the bonuses. However, Obama's top economic adviser Larry Summers warned on Sunday that stopping them could be difficult, since the bonuses are legal contracts set before the federal government became so deeply involved.

I'm surprised, but in the end it's all posturing, and I doubt anything will get done.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: loki8481

AIG had contractual obligations to make the bonus payments and could face lawsuits if it did not do so.

LEAVE FACTS OUT OF THIS THREAD

Let them sue. I'd more than happy to allow them in line right after the US taxpayer for collecting on the money due to them.

Amazingly the UAW had to tear up their current contracts and make new ones as a part of the big 3 receiving money.

As I'm sure someone else has already said in this thread, if AIG went to bankruptcy these contracts would be the first thing to be voided anyways.

So, I don't believe anyone - from AIG, from Treasury, or from the WH who says that there's nothing they can do, and it's "THE LAW!!!!11"

What a joke, shitty contracts like this get torn up in court everyday in this country.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: loki8481
Wall St compensation packages, at least in the past, have been based on bonuses rather than strictly salary like average joe companies... if the people receiving these bonuses had it in their contract, they'd probably win a lawsuit against AIG regardless of how insane it may appear to you or me, and then they'd be out both the bonus money and the lawyer fees/court costs.

I don't think it's morally right and I don't necessarily thing that AIG should have been bailed out, but it is what it is. in the current situation, I don't really see an alternative to paying out the contractually obligated bonuses.

I'd like to see a jury award them their bonuses in the current climate. Also bear in mind a lot of these bonuses are going to people who were involved in the CDS's to begin with. Tell that to the jury and lets see how much sympathy these guys get.

As to the contractual obligation, I too have a contractual obligation to pay my mortgage, but if I lose my job and cannot afford to pay, then what? Either we refinance or the lender can go ahead and sue me for the mortgage money. Why not let these guys take the same tactic.

The govt is bailing out AIG not the individual executives.

 

[miketheidiot]

anyone know exactly what the distribution of these payments was?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
You don;t seems to understand what kjill AIG. It is the mortgage insurance.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matter of fact, Xellos2099, does not understand what killed AIG, its was the unregulated credit default swaps, the unregulated credit default swaps, and the unregulated credit default swaps.

But I have the Lemon Law plan to solve this bonus problem, since Uncle Sammy now owns 80% of AIG, Uncle Sammy is the new boss, and Uncle Sammy is needs to tell any AIG worker, we may or may honor your contractional bonus, but if you accept a dime of it, you are fired immediately.

As for the argument that the best and brightest of them will leave for greener pastures, get a life, what financial firm in their right mind would hire the very idiots who bankrupted AIG????????????????????????????????????????????

Those bastards could not get hired if they paid their employer. They are even more toxic than the credit default swaps they sold, incompetents with no ability or brains.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

A white paper prepared by the company says that AIG is contractually obligated to pay a total of about $165 million of previously awarded "retention pay" to employees in this unit by Sunday, March 15. The document says that another $55 million in retention pay has already been distributed to about 400 AIG Financial Products employees.

Retention pay. For the people who drove your company into bankruptcy. Retention pay... Hey, here's a thought. If an employee makes a business decision that deals your company the single greatest quarterly loss in the history of time, maybe they aren't worth retaining. Maybe AIG should invest in "don't let the door hit your ass" pay.

 

[galperi1]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

A white paper prepared by the company says that AIG is contractually obligated to pay a total of about $165 million of previously awarded "retention pay" to employees in this unit by Sunday, March 15. The document says that another $55 million in retention pay has already been distributed to about 400 AIG Financial Products employees.

Retention pay. For the people who drove your company into bankruptcy. Retention pay... Hey, here's a thought. If an employee makes a business decision that deals your company the single greatest quarterly loss in the history of time, maybe they aren't worth retaining. Maybe AIG should invest in "don't let the door hit your ass" pay.

QFT!

Bonuses are supposed to reward workers for doing something well. The only thing these guys did well was lose the most money EVER this past quarter for a company. They should be lucky to have their jobs, let alone be getting a bonus.

 

[Socio]

More news on AIG;

AIG ships billions in bailout abroad

Billions of American taxpayer dollars used to bailout insurance giant AIG are flowing to some of the largest foreign banks in the world, according to new documents released by beleaguered company Sunday.

Should have never given them a penny, what a waste!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

A white paper prepared by the company says that AIG is contractually obligated to pay a total of about $165 million of previously awarded "retention pay" to employees in this unit by Sunday, March 15. The document says that another $55 million in retention pay has already been distributed to about 400 AIG Financial Products employees.

Retention pay. For the people who drove your company into bankruptcy. Retention pay... Hey, here's a thought. If an employee makes a business decision that deals your company the single greatest quarterly loss in the history of time, maybe they aren't worth retaining. Maybe AIG should invest in "don't let the door hit your ass" pay.

Ya think? But wouldn't that be the beginning of the communistic era of the USA and then everyone would be horribly locked up in Siberia forced to look at naked pics of Al Gore?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

A white paper prepared by the company says that AIG is contractually obligated to pay a total of about $165 million of previously awarded "retention pay" to employees in this unit by Sunday, March 15. The document says that another $55 million in retention pay has already been distributed to about 400 AIG Financial Products employees.

Retention pay. For the people who drove your company into bankruptcy. Retention pay... Hey, here's a thought. If an employee makes a business decision that deals your company the single greatest quarterly loss in the history of time, maybe they aren't worth retaining. Maybe AIG should invest in "don't let the door hit your ass" pay.

Ya think? But wouldn't that be the beginning of the communistic era of the USA and then everyone would be horribly locked up in Siberia forced to look at naked pics of Al Gore?

Well, maybe

I've done a little looking and it looks like these contracts are legally binding. Yeah, it sucks however a major gripe of mine with the last administration was their creative interpretation of the law. A whole lot of people supported that, and I didn't. Likewise I can't support not paying the bonuses although it stick in my throat to say so. A deal is a deal.

Now, that said once we go forward we need to have strings attached. If you want to suckle at the government tit, you aren't going to bite it.

Will Congress do that? I don't think so. They'll sing and dance a lot and act outraged, then do nothing. These same people fill their war chest.

 

[sactoking]

Originally posted by: galperi1
QFT!

Bonuses are supposed to reward workers for doing something well. The only thing these guys did well was lose the most money EVER this past quarter for a company. They should be lucky to have their jobs, let alone be getting a bonus.

Do we know the timing of the retention pay program? Is it theoretically possible that the bonuses were triggered before the quarterly loss was announced? Could the program have been something like "If you're an employee as of 12/31/08 you get 150% of you salary as a bonus"? If so, it would be a lot like an announced dividend. So long as you're a shareholder of record on the proper date, the company is bound to the payment regardless of what happens afterward.

I'm not saying that I'm defending AIG, but I am saying that there's an awful lot of questions that need answering before moral outrage is justified.

On a separate note, it looks like Congress may enact some sort of special tax (the number 98% was mentioned) to recoup the bonus money. I've only seen that reported by Fox so far, so I'm not linking until I get a second opinion.

 

[da loser]

interesting money went to other banks.

so in affect. the government is paying out their claims. wonder if goldman sachs got 100% of their claims, or it was marked down like it would be for others.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Makes me sick. These dicks got rich through cowboy business practices that helped drive the world into the dirt, and now they're getting even richer through bailouts. These guys are criminals, and they're ripping off Joe Public and getting away with it. All in the full view of the public.

All the while they're going on about the "free market" and how great it is, and then asking for bailouts. What a massive contradiction. Bunch of utter and complete assholes. I hope they rot.

These fucking companies need to be regulated.

LOL, well put sir!!

 

[SickBeast]

Obama should make a law that states it is illegal to collect bonuses after a company receives a government bailout. IMO he should also allow companies to cut their labour costs by 25% regardless of unionization in the event of a bailout.

These guys would have been unemployed, and instead now they're collecting billions of dollars of government money.

Really though, this issue makes Obama look really bad IMO. Bush already had this same problem with the bank bailouts and I thought it was just because he's so stupid. Now Obama goes and repeats his mistake. This should have been addressed before the bailout money was handed out.

Anyone else would be bankrupt, but the government is allowed to perpetually fuck up. :thumbsdown:

 

[Xellos2099]

So people here believe private mortgage insurance has "nothing" to do with their biggest lost ever because of the housing market crash?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
So people here believe private mortgage insurance has "nothing" to do with their biggest lost ever because of the housing market crash?

Care to elaborate instead of posing a rhetorical question?

Here you go, Captain Obvious, have a rock.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

A white paper prepared by the company says that AIG is contractually obligated to pay a total of about $165 million of previously awarded "retention pay" to employees in this unit by Sunday, March 15. The document says that another $55 million in retention pay has already been distributed to about 400 AIG Financial Products employees.

Retention pay. For the people who drove your company into bankruptcy. Retention pay... Hey, here's a thought. If an employee makes a business decision that deals your company the single greatest quarterly loss in the history of time, maybe they aren't worth retaining. Maybe AIG should invest in "don't let the door hit your ass" pay.

Ya think? But wouldn't that be the beginning of the communistic era of the USA and then everyone would be horribly locked up in Siberia forced to look at naked pics of Al Gore?

Well, maybe

I've done a little looking and it looks like these contracts are legally binding. Yeah, it sucks however a major gripe of mine with the last administration was their creative interpretation of the law. A whole lot of people supported that, and I didn't. Likewise I can't support not paying the bonuses although it stick in my throat to say so. A deal is a deal.

Now, that said once we go forward we need to have strings attached. If you want to suckle at the government tit, you aren't going to bite it.

Will Congress do that? I don't think so. They'll sing and dance a lot and act outraged, then do nothing. These same people fill their war chest.

Let them sue. Once the US taxpayers collect on their $170B debit from AIG, then they can have their $165M.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
Let them sue. Once the US taxpayers collect on their $170B debit from AIG, then they can have their $165M.

That's an interesting approach, and it could well be what Obama will and should do.

 

[Jiggz]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Jiggz

Originally posted by: loki8481

AIG had contractual obligations to make the bonus payments and could face lawsuits if it did not do so.

Not if they filed Chapter 11! The gov't should have let AIG go Chapter 11 and fix itself or die!

but the government didn't, so here we are.

don't blame me, I voted for Kerry.

The situation is not helpless. Since most of these bonuses were retention incentive and obviously these employees do not deserve retention after losing more than $60+B.

The real irony of this mess is that Treasury Sec (Turbo Tax)Geithner is actually the architect of AIG bailout! So to fix this mess, the only thing the White House has to do is look in the mirror!

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
So people here believe private mortgage insurance has "nothing" to do with their biggest lost ever because of the housing market crash?

Care to elaborate instead of posing a rhetorical question?

Here you go, Captain Obvious, have a rock.

Speaking of obvious, I'd bet that the people at AIG deciding to pay these bonuses are the very same ones getting them. Why would they not want to give them out?? They obviously think they deserve to be retained... just as long as the taxpayers are willing to pay for retaining them.

Obama screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[ProfJohn]

$165 million???

Why don't you guys get that pissed of at the BILLIONS of dollars wasted by our government every year.

We just passed a $700+ billion stimulus and you are freaking out over a $165 million.

Let's compare the two shall we.

AIG bonus=
$165,000,000

Last government Stimulus=
$710,000,000,000

How about AIG bonuses vs Federal budget??
$165,000,000
$4,000,000,000,000

It is a shame you guys don't get that pissed about overall government spending. And instead beg for more more more.

For those of you math impaired... the Federal budget is 24,000!!!! times larger than these AIG bonuses. 24,000!!!!!!