Insulating paint?

[RadiclDreamer]

I have an older stucco house and insulating it would prove VERY difficult, anyone ever use something like this? http://www.hytechsales.com/

Seems like a scam, but I've seen weirder things in the past.

 

[Jeff7]

I'd love to see thermal conductivity values for it, which should be quite easily obtained. I think thermal conductivity values are given in W/m-K. Lower is better for insulators.

 

[marketsons1985]

The microspheres in the HY-TECH insulating ceramic additive have compressive strengths up to 6,000 psi, a softening point of about 1800° C., and they are fairly chemical resistant, with low thermal conductivity of 0.1 W / m / Deg.C.

And their claim of being linked with NASA is true too. link

 

[RadiclDreamer]

So looks legit? I know it isnt going to match some good old fashioned pink panther fiberglass insulation or anything, I just need something, the walls in my house are frigid and my gas bill is up to $500 a month even after adding new windows and weather stripping.

 

[Jeff7]

Too bad you can't just get a nice thermal imaging camera and have a look at your house. That'd show you right straight away where your heat is being lost. I wonder if a local insulation business might have one that they use for consultation purposes?


I guess I'd just like to test it for myself; the site isn't technical enough for my taste.
But a thin insulator doesn't offer much resistance - if you've ever felt a single-pane glass window on a cold day, you'd know what I mean. Glass is about 10x more conductive than this stuff though; it still is considered an insulating ceramic, at least when compared to other engineering materials.


Heat Transfer = (k * A * ?T) / L

k = thermal conductivity
A = exposed area
?T = temperature differential between the outer and inner surfaces
L = thickness of the material

So as the thickness goes down, the heat transferred increases, as you might expect. And a layer of paint is going to be pretty thin.

On the other hand, this stuff is marketed as being cheap. And increase that A term, and your heat transfer is going to be large; if you can lower the k value over a large area, it could result in a significant reduction in heat transferred.
Frankly, I don't feel like setting up a spreadsheet right now to run some numbers to see just how much it would reduce heat loss.


I'd say that a thermal camera would be an easier method to see where you're losing heat.

I'm not at all familiar with stucco houses. Are the walls hollow? Some insulation places have this expanding foam stuff that they can inject into walls.

 

[Renob]

my gas bill is up to $500 a month even after adding new windows and weather stripping.

Ouch thats a lot, I looked into this product about a year ago seems to be good stuff!!!

I ended up not using it and continue to try to talk my wife into new siding, then uses it.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Renob

my gas bill is up to $500 a month even after adding new windows and weather stripping.

Ouch thats a lot, I looked into this product about a year ago seems to be good stuff!!!

I ended up not using it and continue to try to talk my wife into new siding, then uses it.

No kidding, granted the water heater and stove are gas as well and the house is only 2000 sq ft including basement.

I am scheduled to have my ~30 year old furnace replaced here really soon so that should help some.

Guess that teaches me to buy an old house and try to fix it up.

 

[Jeff7]

A furnace replacement should definitely help; some of the newer units have 90%+ efficiency ratings.

Walls and the roof should be insulated though. Otherwise they're just going to bleed heat like crazy through conduction and radiation, right past those new windows.


My apartment is only around 700 sq feet, and I generally just keep the downstairs heated, as that's where I'm at. I can run $200 heating bills sometimes. Some of the windows are old single-pane things, and even the new windows have some drafts around them.
This place might as well be "insulated" with large aluminum heatsinks on all sides.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
A furnace replacement should definitely help; some of the newer units have 90%+ efficiency ratings.

Walls and the roof should be insulated though. Otherwise they're just going to bleed heat like crazy through conduction and radiation, right past those new windows.


My apartment is only around 700 sq feet, and I generally just keep the downstairs heated, as that's where I'm at. I can run $200 heating bills sometimes. Some of the windows are old single-pane things, and even the new windows have some drafts around them.
This place might as well be "insulated" with large aluminum heatsinks on all sides.

The one I am having installed is 95% eff

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Too bad you can't just get a nice thermal imaging camera and have a look at your house. That'd show you right straight away where your heat is being lost. I wonder if a local insulation business might have one that they use for consultation purposes?


I guess I'd just like to test it for myself; the site isn't technical enough for my taste.
But a thin insulator doesn't offer much resistance - if you've ever felt a single-pane glass window on a cold day, you'd know what I mean. Glass is about 10x more conductive than this stuff though; it still is considered an insulating ceramic, at least when compared to other engineering materials.


Heat Transfer = (k * A * ?T) / L

k = thermal conductivity
A = exposed area
?T = temperature differential between the outer and inner surfaces
L = thickness of the material

So as the thickness goes down, the heat transferred increases, as you might expect. And a layer of paint is going to be pretty thin.

On the other hand, this stuff is marketed as being cheap. And increase that A term, and your heat transfer is going to be large; if you can lower the k value over a large area, it could result in a significant reduction in heat transferred.
Frankly, I don't feel like setting up a spreadsheet right now to run some numbers to see just how much it would reduce heat loss.


I'd say that a thermal camera would be an easier method to see where you're losing heat.

I'm not at all familiar with stucco houses. Are the walls hollow? Some insulation places have this expanding foam stuff that they can inject into walls.

Some gas companies have a service where they send out some guy to tell you where your leaking

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Jeff7
A furnace replacement should definitely help; some of the newer units have 90%+ efficiency ratings.

Walls and the roof should be insulated though. Otherwise they're just going to bleed heat like crazy through conduction and radiation, right past those new windows.


My apartment is only around 700 sq feet, and I generally just keep the downstairs heated, as that's where I'm at. I can run $200 heating bills sometimes. Some of the windows are old single-pane things, and even the new windows have some drafts around them.
This place might as well be "insulated" with large aluminum heatsinks on all sides.

The one I am having installed is 95% eff

Just so you're aware, there's usually a huge price difference when you jump up to 95%. Sometimes it's not worth the jump in price as it would take too long to recoup it. Then again, in your case with such an uninsulated house, it's hard to tell. I was just looking at some prices the other day. 80% efficient furnaces were $450 to $550, and installation was $150, plus any materials that they'd need to swap in the new furnace. (About a 2 hour job.) The 90% efficient were a few hundred more; installation was the same.

Also, since you're in West Virginia, I'd think you'd be able to get coal for a pretty reasonable price. Since it's costing you $500 a month to heat with gas, I'd bet coal would reduce your heating bill by about 60-70%. We just finished using our 100th bag this year = 2 tons = $500. Western NY, very cold winter so far, and I keep the thermostat well into the 70's. Our stove has been on since about the middle of October.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Yeah, you would think I could get coal for a good price and actually when my dad worked in the mines they could get up to 10 ton per year at a great price, but now its just as expensive here.

The furnace actually isnt too bad, $3500 for install, all parts, 1 new return and 1 new delivery as well as a new humidifier. They are also running new vent pipe.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer

Originally posted by: Jeff7
A furnace replacement should definitely help; some of the newer units have 90%+ efficiency ratings.

Walls and the roof should be insulated though. Otherwise they're just going to bleed heat like crazy through conduction and radiation, right past those new windows.


My apartment is only around 700 sq feet, and I generally just keep the downstairs heated, as that's where I'm at. I can run $200 heating bills sometimes. Some of the windows are old single-pane things, and even the new windows have some drafts around them.
This place might as well be "insulated" with large aluminum heatsinks on all sides.

The one I am having installed is 95% eff

Just so you're aware, there's usually a huge price difference when you jump up to 95%. Sometimes it's not worth the jump in price as it would take too long to recoup it. Then again, in your case with such an uninsulated house, it's hard to tell. I was just looking at some prices the other day. 80% efficient furnaces were $450 to $550, and installation was $150, plus any materials that they'd need to swap in the new furnace. (About a 2 hour job.) The 90% efficient were a few hundred more; installation was the same.

Also, since you're in West Virginia, I'd think you'd be able to get coal for a pretty reasonable price. Since it's costing you $500 a month to heat with gas, I'd bet coal would reduce your heating bill by about 60-70%. We just finished using our 100th bag this year = 2 tons = $500. Western NY, very cold winter so far, and I keep the thermostat well into the 70's. Our stove has been on since about the middle of October.

Whenever anyone mentions that they have a coal furnace, images from A Christmas Story suddenly leap to mind.

 

[sdifox]

Have you upgraded the attic insulation at least? That should help a lot. Blow in as much as you can.

Maybe worth it to rip out drywall and insulate. Alternatively, drill hole and blow in insulation between studs, assuming you have studs.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

My summer project is going to be insulating the attic, the crawl space to get there is very small so its not going to be fun

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
My summer project is going to be insulating the attic, the crawl space to get there is very small so its not going to be fun

that is why you go with blown in insulation. Depends on where you are, you might be able to find someone to do it now.

 

[Aharami]

how expensive is it to get those expanding insulating foam thing done. I want to do it more for sound insulation than anything else. I share a common wall with my nextdoor townhouse neighbor and the walls are paper thin. I feel like he can hear everything thats going on. He's a nice guy and hasnt complained yet but I want to live the way I want to in my own house and not have to worry about the neighbors.