Installing a bathroom in the basement w/o rough-ins

[snoopdoug1]

Anyone know how much it costs and/or how hard it is to install a bathroom in your basement when the basement does not have rough ins? I'm contemplating finishing the basement, but really think it's worth it to put a bathroom down there, even if it's just a 1/2 bath...

Thanks

 

[BoomerD]

So, the basement isn't plumbed at all for toilet, sink, drains?

Running water to the fixtures won't be that expensive, but installing proper drains for them may be rather expensive.

There's no way to begin to estimate costs without knowing exactly what your basement is like, or how the house is plumbed, which is why none of us can give an intelligent price...and why you need to get estimates/bids from licensed plumbing contractors so that things are done right...and to code.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I don't think it would be TOO expensive, maybe a few grand for the room and another few for the bathroom stuff itself? I'm doing a very wild guess here so I could be off.

Materials would basicaly be foam insulation, 2x4's, fiberglass insulation, vapor barrier, drywall, mud/primer/paint. What will be expensive is the bathroom itself depending on what you put in it.

I also failed to mention stuff like electrical wire, plumbing, and fittings etc and depending on the situation it could be cheap or could be very expensive. If you have to start drilling through cement and such.

 

[snoopdoug1]

So, the basement isn't plumbed at all for toilet, sink, drains?

Running water to the fixtures won't be that expensive, but installing proper drains for them may be rather expensive.

There's no way to begin to estimate costs without knowing exactly what your basement is like, or how the house is plumbed, which is why none of us can give an intelligent price...and why you need to get estimates/bids from licensed plumbing contractors so that things are done right...and to code.

Thanks for the response. Nope - nothing at all besides the washer/dryer.

I realize it can be vastly different on costs, I was just looking for ballpark, as I didn't see anything online. Thanks for the info!

 

[snoopdoug1]

I don't think it would be TOO expensive, maybe a few grand for the room and another few for the bathroom stuff itself? I'm doing a very wild guess here so I could be off.

Materials would basicaly be foam insulation, 2x4's, fiberglass insulation, vapor barrier, drywall, mud/primer/paint. What will be expensive is the bathroom itself depending on what you put in it.

I also failed to mention stuff like electrical wire, plumbing, and fittings etc and depending on the situation it could be cheap or could be very expensive. If you have to start drilling through cement and such.

Right - that's what I'm worried about. Drilling through cement can't be cheap, but I"m guessing that's what they'd have to do...

Thanks for the help

 

[Vette73]

Look for a pump that grinds stuff up. I can;t remember but its made to work in basements without drain lines.
It works like a garbage disposal in that is grinds the "shit" up and then pumps it up so you can tie to a current main drain line.

 

[bctbct]

Does the waste line in your house go through the basement floor or out through the basement wall?

 

[iGas]

Cost depends on many factors and you haven't given us enough information to guesstimate the cost.

1. Building soil-or-waste drain size (3" or 4")
2.Gravity feed or lift station building soil-or-waste drain
3. Access ability.

Cost run from a few thousands for an extremely handy DIYer, and easily exceed 15K-20K pending the material & amount of labor time.

Lift station isn't expensive if it must be upgrade to support additional load and/or head.

The cost is expensive if the piping isn't expose, because it may requires additional structural supports if new piping/grade run though existing supports.

Cost is prohibitively high if building drain have to be upgrade from 3" to 4" to support additional fixture load (specially toilet). Unless everything is accessible, but I highly doubted.

 

[iGas]

Look for a pump that grinds stuff up. I can;t remember but its made to work in basements without drain lines.
It works like a garbage disposal in that is grinds the "shit" up and then pumps it up so you can tie to a current main drain line.

Macerating toilet.

 

[iGas]

Right - that's what I'm worried about. Drilling through cement can't be cheap, but I"m guessing that's what they'd have to do...

Thanks for the help

Chipping concrete isn't hard or expensive.

 

[BoomerD]

Chipping concrete isn't hard nor expensive.

Depends on whether it's a DIY project or if he hires someone to do it.

You can rent a masonry saw at your local equipment rental place, but they charge quite a bit for the diamond blades.

 

[iGas]

Depends on whether it's a DIY project or if he hires someone to do it.

You can rent a masonry saw at your local equipment rental place, but they charge quite a bit for the diamond blades.

I wouldn't be bother with a saw.

A 15-30 lbs jackhammer would make short work of the concrete. Masonry saw would greatly help with controlling crack/fracture on the floor, but it is not going to be much of use if you want to cut a small hole in the wall.

I'm not sure what the cost of rental in the US, but here in Canada the cost is $35 flat fee for a day ++ cost of wear on the blade. Cost were less than $50 rental for a masonry saw that I rented to cut a 22' groove at 1" deep (slab were 3.5" thick).

 

[BoomerD]

I wouldn't be bother with a saw.

A 15-30 lbs jackhammer would make short work of the concrete. Masonry saw would greatly help with controlling crack/fracture on the floor, but it is not going to be much of use if you want to cut a small hole in the wall.

For a project such as this, I'd rather cut the concrete for plumbing than to bust it up with a jackhammer...but to each his own.

 

[iGas]

For a project such as this, I'd rather cut the concrete for plumbing than to bust it up with a jackhammer...but to each his own.

Agree, however you are going to have to patch the concrete which ever way you re move the concrete.

I'm a licensed plumber and we chip the shit out of concrete instead of saw every single time, unless the floor has to be caulk for fire rating. PS. chipping concrete for plumbing is allow by building code & engineered specs.

 

[BoomerD]

Agree, however you are going to have to patch the concrete which ever way you re move the concrete.

I'm a licensed plumber and we chip the shit out of concrete instead of saw every single time, unless the floor has to be caulk for fire rating. PS. chipping concrete for plumbing is allow by building code & engineered specs.

Agreed, but the patch looks better if you're just filling a cut-out piece rather than a broken out piece...and there's usually less old concrete to dispose of.

 

[skyking]

Like other said it depends on how the waste is plumbed out of your house now. If your waste pipe comes down from the floor above and vertically goes into the basement slab, you are very lucky. If that is the case you might have some lines in the slab already. There should be a cleanout Wye near the floor. You can determine the direction your waste pipe takes out of your house, and see of there is any other pipe below grade.
If you are not so lucky, the waste pipe exits horizontally through the basement wall and you will need one of these.
http://www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/zoellerpackagesystems.htm
Saw cut or jackhammer that into an equipment space in the basement near the bathroom. saw cut/jackhammer your pipe in. plumb that pump up with discharge, check valve, and proper venting. Wire with power and an alarm panel.
They work well if not abused. I went out on a service call where one of these would fail intermittently. I took a look in there and the homeowner had tiled the entire house and tape and textured, and rinsed all that heavy dust/sand/grout down the utility sink connected to the pump system. It was just about filled up. The float would hang up on the "beach" in the tank, LOL!
I rinsed it all loose and pumped it out and told him to take that kind of stuff outside to the yard. Any decent contractor would. What a knucklehead.

 

[911paramedic]

Look for a pump that grinds stuff up. I can;t remember but its made to work in basements without drain lines.
It works like a garbage disposal in that is grinds the "shit" up and then pumps it up so you can tie to a current main drain line.

Correct, and the pump is usually in a 50 gallon drum that is sunken into the floor. That's going to be your biggest cost. (That plumbing job I mean, and the pump is around $500 alone. I had to replace one once.)

 

[iGas]

Correct, and the pump is usually in a 50 gallon drum that is sunken into the floor. That's going to be your biggest cost. (That plumbing job I mean, and the pump is around $500 alone. I had to replace one once.)

Not necessary.

What you have is a sum system, but there are other design such as inline lift station, in wall discharge lift system, rear discharge toilet with macerating rear tank/pump, or all in one macerating toilet.

 

[Squisher]

Thanks for the response. Nope - nothing at all besides the washer/dryer.

Where does the discharge for the washer go? Into a utility sink? If so where does the sink drain to? How far is this from where the bathroom will go?

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would avoid drain pumps if you can, it's something that can break and cause an issue. I would do it properly and just try to trace the main sewer line from the main stack. Then drain directly to the sewer line. This may require breaking up cement uneedly if it's hard to follow the pipe, but in most cases you should be able to use common sense and go straight to where you want to hook up then work your way to where you think the pipe is. If there's a cleanout or drain somewhere on the floor then you can make a decent assumption the main drain goes straight from the stack to that cleanout. Then again, these are just assumptions, depends how the person layed it out.

When you do hook up to the main sewer line make sure you know what direction the flow goes so you can use a Y instead of a T, less chance of blockages.

I'm no plumber but this is mostly all common sense stuff. I would read up on any codes to make sure you do it to code as well.

 

[iGas]

I would avoid drain pumps if you can, it's something that can break and cause an issue. I would do it properly and just try to trace the main sewer line from the main stack. Then drain directly to the sewer line. This may require breaking up cement uneedly if it's hard to follow the pipe, but in most cases you should be able to use common sense and go straight to where you want to hook up then work your way to where you think the pipe is. If there's a cleanout or drain somewhere on the floor then you can make a decent assumption the main drain goes straight from the stack to that cleanout. Then again, these are just assumptions, depends how the person layed it out.

When you do hook up to the main sewer line make sure you know what direction the flow goes so you can use a Y instead of a T, less chance of blockages.

I'm no plumber but this is mostly all common sense stuff. I would read up on any codes to make sure you do it to code as well.

Please don't talk when you don't have a clue.

It could be that the basement is lower than the building drain which is below the soil-or-waste stack.

It may not be possible for gravity drainage, because the toilet location maybe greater than maximum trap arm length allowed by code, or there isn't enough grade for the drain pipe.

Washing machine drain is powered by a pump therefore it can lift waste water, hence the drain doesn't have to be at the bottom of basement.

There is also code for sud zone (wake by water drop by stack, and bubble from washing machine) distant from stack on building drain, and to other fixtures such as toilets, lavatory, and shower/tub drain to be considered. Other wise waste water may backup into your sink and/or tub due to soap bubble that block your vent.

 

[snoopdoug1]

Wow - thank you for all the responses. I looked and the sewer pipes go straight down into the concrete. I'm actually looking at potentially doing a macerating toilet now, as I think that will be cheaper. Thank you for all the replies!

 

[bctbct]

Wow - thank you for all the responses. I looked and the sewer pipes go straight down into the concrete. I'm actually looking at potentially doing a macerating toilet now, as I think that will be cheaper. Thank you for all the replies!

If the drain goes through the floor, a standard toilet should work. If you want to cut cost try to locate the bathroom near the waste line.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Please don't talk when you don't have a clue.

It could be that the basement is lower than the building drain which is below the soil-or-waste stack.

It may not be possible for gravity drainage, because the toilet location maybe greater than maximum trap arm length allowed by code, or there isn't enough grade for the drain pipe.

Washing machine drain is powered by a pump therefore it can lift waste water, hence the drain doesn't have to be at the bottom of basement.

There is also code for sud zone (wake by water drop by stack, and bubble from washing machine) distant from stack on building drain, and to other fixtures such as toilets, lavatory, and shower/tub drain to be considered. Other wise waste water may backup into your sink and/or tub due to soap bubble that block your vent.

I've never heard of a building being lower then the main sewer, if the city sewer is higher then the floor then that means he is VERY vulnerable to sewer backup and it would have been a mistake to buy that property. Heck building a basement lower then the main sewer is probably against code, or something... it's just not smart. Every house I've seen (seen a lot while house hunting), the stack goes straight to the ground.

 

[mizzou]

I've never heard of a building being lower then the main sewer, if the city sewer is higher then the floor then that means he is VERY vulnerable to sewer backup and it would have been a mistake to buy that property. Heck building a basement lower then the main sewer is probably against code, or something... it's just not smart. Every house I've seen (seen a lot while house hunting), the stack goes straight to the ground.

it does happen where your basement floor level may be below the sewer line. this is why they invented the upflushing toilets.

Yes, it does open you up to considerable sewage backwash should there be a stoppage but thats the price you pay for convenience i guess