Listen closley folks, because I'm not going to explain myself again. Go ahead and pat yourselves on the backs for doing such a good job and being so superior to those worthless people that can't get a better job then Walmart. I don't think any of you realize how thin the line can be between making it and not making it in this world.
I myself am well aware of all the things that can go awry and how much luck canshape your life. I went through a period where my wife suffered through a serious illness and couldn't work. We had three kids at home and every week we came down to our last $5 and this lasted for 3 years. I even had to opt out of our 401k plan because I needed the lousy $6/week I was putting into it to survive and pay my bills.
Now I had a good job for the area, was working 50+ hours/week and also was farming on the week-ends. Thank God we didn't have the string of bad years we've had for the last 5 years or I would have never made it and lost the farm. I had plenty of other problems at that time that if I told you, you would probably think I was making it all up.
So, with God's help (or just plain dumb luck if that's what you want to call it) I was able to hang onto my farm, which is how I made my living for the last 10 years and now it is worth over $1 million. Still, I can't make enough money off of it to afford health insurance, so i have rented it out and am trying to snare a job.
So again I ask, why do you hate the working poor so? There but for the grace of god goes you.
I myself am well aware of all the things that can go awry and how much luck canshape your life. I went through a period where my wife suffered through a serious illness and couldn't work. We had three kids at home and every week we came down to our last $5 and this lasted for 3 years. I even had to opt out of our 401k plan because I needed the lousy $6/week I was putting into it to survive and pay my bills.
Now I had a good job for the area, was working 50+ hours/week and also was farming on the week-ends. Thank God we didn't have the string of bad years we've had for the last 5 years or I would have never made it and lost the farm. I had plenty of other problems at that time that if I told you, you would probably think I was making it all up.
So, with God's help (or just plain dumb luck if that's what you want to call it) I was able to hang onto my farm, which is how I made my living for the last 10 years and now it is worth over $1 million. Still, I can't make enough money off of it to afford health insurance, so i have rented it out and am trying to snare a job.
So again I ask, why do you hate the working poor so? There but for the grace of god goes you.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,918
- 2,884
- 136
There you go again, because we disagree with you all of the sudden we hate the working poor. So again I will ask, why do you hate the thought of people rising above being a cashier at Walmart and improving their life, without the government holding their hand?
I don't hate them, but someone has to run the cash register or stock the shelves, now don't they. You seem to think they giving them a raise is coming out of your pocket.
If people are working full time and doing a good job I SEE NO REASON why they shouldn't be making enough money to support an average size family without needing goverment assitance. I never applied for it, but I would guess that I would have qualified for it. I know my kids got free lunches at school during that period and it sure helped out.
I guess the difference between you and I is that I think a person working full time should not have to degrade themselves by being forced into applying for public assitance.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,918
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Just because someone is working full time and doing a "good job" does not entitle them to anything. So should everyone that works full time and does a good job make the exact same amount of money?
And yes, of course someone has to run the cash register or stock the shelves, but why would someone stay in that job and decide to raise a family with that as their career?
I started off selling shoes at a department store when I knocked up my girlfriend. I didn't stay in that job and cry because now I need more money to support my son and girlfriend (now wife). I did things to better myself, and now, 4 years later I have a great job, so does my wife, and we have a great family.
The difference between you and I is that you think that it is perfectly acceptable to stay at that starting job, whether it be selling shoes or running a cash register, and I think that you should have to better yourself and rise above those menial jobs. Everyone had to start somewhere, but that doesnt mean that you should stay there and demand more money becuase you show up on time and do a good job.
You know, I don't give a crap about how menial the job is. If it requires a full time worker then I still believe it should pay enough to raise an average size family. I have some friends from high school who are dumber then crap, but they know how to put up hay and pull calves and were born owning enough land to keep doing the only thing they know, raising cattle. They're making great livings, but they aren't really capable of moving past anything but a "starter job", as you put it
I don't know where your from, but there just aren't a lot of jobs around here. We don't even have a community college to go to if we did want to try and educate ourselves. In my case I made the descion to try and expand my farm operation and was hoping to retire there by the time I was the age I am now. Through no fault of my own, nor lack of work on my part, it just didn't work that way.
I was lucky that I managed to make it work as well as I did, it just as well could have went the other way and I'd be wiiling to bet that I worked just as hard at it, if not harder then anybody here in this forum.
No on deserves retirement. Retirement is a modern ideal, that came about because people were living past their life expectancies and were to feeble to work. This just isnt the case these days. This ideal of retirement is going to bankrupt this nation.
If you cant earn enough for retirement its your own fault.
I'm actually "retired" right now and had been "semi-retired" for 10 years, just farming, but it was only a 4 month out of the year job, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I'll be 54 next week, so I guess I've done OK, though it was nip and tuck for a while.
Actually the concepts are quite a bit sharper than that. For one, not everyone who thinks the minimum wage should be increased is liberal and not all liberals are Democrats.
BurnItDwn
Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 26,353
- 1,862
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Well, there is a lot to it.
A fair "living wage" means enough money to support yourself with a semi-decent lifestyle (at a minimum a studio apartment, a junker car, car insurance, health insurance, money to eat, abillity to pay all bills on time, still some cash left over every month.)
In the middle of bumblefvck ... it might just be $5 an hour with benefits (you know, where houses cost less than $50,000 ..)
In a place Like Chicago, it would be over $10 with full benefits (assuming 1 hour commute or less)
That being said, the "minimum" wage doesn't necessarely equal a "living wage"
Minimum wage is "better than nothing wage", it's place is for High School kids etc who are new to the work force, etc. I'd like to see minimum wage pushed up to around $8 or so, as that would be enough for a high school student who works only 20 hours per week to still bring in over 7K per year, which should be enough to pay for a junker, insurance, and still have some money left over for "stuff." (as well as save a bit towards further education, or a down payment on a property for when they get a "real" job)
A fair "living wage" means enough money to support yourself with a semi-decent lifestyle (at a minimum a studio apartment, a junker car, car insurance, health insurance, money to eat, abillity to pay all bills on time, still some cash left over every month.)
In the middle of bumblefvck ... it might just be $5 an hour with benefits (you know, where houses cost less than $50,000 ..)
In a place Like Chicago, it would be over $10 with full benefits (assuming 1 hour commute or less)
That being said, the "minimum" wage doesn't necessarely equal a "living wage"
Minimum wage is "better than nothing wage", it's place is for High School kids etc who are new to the work force, etc. I'd like to see minimum wage pushed up to around $8 or so, as that would be enough for a high school student who works only 20 hours per week to still bring in over 7K per year, which should be enough to pay for a junker, insurance, and still have some money left over for "stuff." (as well as save a bit towards further education, or a down payment on a property for when they get a "real" job)
And we shouldn't need a law to require employers to pay employee's enough money to survive on. It should just be common sense and, IMO, anybody who can't see that is only fooling themselves.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,918
- 2,884
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I just want to clarify your position. Are you saying that you believe that anyone that works 40 hours a week deserves to make enough money to support a family, no matter what the job is that they may be doing?
Edit- with full healthcare and retirement too?
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Never look a gift horse in the mouth.
Stunt
Diamond Member
- Jul 17, 2002
- 9,717
- 2
- 0
adding on to my post above;
"Living wage" is a completely illogical concept as so many factors contribute to the end result of living. It's all about individual choices with regards to children, food, clothing, housing, transportation, insurance, etc. A family with 2 children, living in reasonable accomodations, taking transit to work, using coupons for healthy food will live off a much lower wage than a family with 5 children, lives in expensive housing, wanting the luxury of a car (while on min. wage), eating out at fast food restaurants, buying usless toys and expensive clothes. Not to mention different costs of living from state to state, town to town.
Looking for the magic "Living wage" will never happen, while I would love to see all people living comfortably on their wages; the only fair wage is what the market determines. If you get no applicants for your job, or you have high turn over in the position; the wage is too low and the company will understand the costs associated with this. That's why we see very few people who actually make minimum wage. It's my honest belief that if companies were given free rule to make wages what they wanted (happens now except for the lowest of the low) they would be more willing to pay a living wage. With a minimum wage benchmark, for as many jobs that get bumped up to this value, a similar number would get bumped down to this number. It's like you go out shopping for a car and you are willing to spend $35,000 but you find one that suits your needs for $25,000...what is the amount you spend on the car? Say you find a car for $2,000; are you automatically sold? What are the other costs associated with the car? Maintenance, Safety, having to buy a new car in 6months?
Socialists are so short sighted. I'm surprised they don't require a law to remind them they need to eat on a day to day basis. Some things are just common sense and don't require legislation.
"Living wage" is a completely illogical concept as so many factors contribute to the end result of living. It's all about individual choices with regards to children, food, clothing, housing, transportation, insurance, etc. A family with 2 children, living in reasonable accomodations, taking transit to work, using coupons for healthy food will live off a much lower wage than a family with 5 children, lives in expensive housing, wanting the luxury of a car (while on min. wage), eating out at fast food restaurants, buying usless toys and expensive clothes. Not to mention different costs of living from state to state, town to town.
Looking for the magic "Living wage" will never happen, while I would love to see all people living comfortably on their wages; the only fair wage is what the market determines. If you get no applicants for your job, or you have high turn over in the position; the wage is too low and the company will understand the costs associated with this. That's why we see very few people who actually make minimum wage. It's my honest belief that if companies were given free rule to make wages what they wanted (happens now except for the lowest of the low) they would be more willing to pay a living wage. With a minimum wage benchmark, for as many jobs that get bumped up to this value, a similar number would get bumped down to this number. It's like you go out shopping for a car and you are willing to spend $35,000 but you find one that suits your needs for $25,000...what is the amount you spend on the car? Say you find a car for $2,000; are you automatically sold? What are the other costs associated with the car? Maintenance, Safety, having to buy a new car in 6months?
Socialists are so short sighted. I'm surprised they don't require a law to remind them they need to eat on a day to day basis. Some things are just common sense and don't require legislation.
The less you get the more you NEED. There is such a thing as not having enough so your comment really doesn't apply in this scenario. I guess if you want to take the attitude that since life isn't fair then anything goes, well that's your perogative, but common sense dictates otherwise.
Perhaps you are just trying to justify your view to yourself by thinking that?
Anybody who has a full time position. I guess I don't care if it's 20 hours or 60 hours a week. I think there should be a floor of minimum benifits. You can go on and on about your "starting level" jobs all you want, but the fact is somebody has to do those jobs and they get sick and have to retire at some point, just like any other human being.
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