If "class envy" means that I think hard working americans deserve a decent wage and retirement, then sign me up!!
LOL, I rented the farm out and have no employees (of course I never did anyway). As a matter of fact I'm searching for a job myself right now. I did not apply at Walmart though, who but a very desperate person would try to get a job with an employer who has a 30% turnover rate?
The best answer you can come up with on who a person can "negoitate" a wage with is the person hiring? LMAO, like they could change company policy!! Your argument is so hollow it isn't even worth considering as a valid argument.
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Here let me make things simple for you. The following statements qualify you for class envy person of the year:
Maybe some of the upper brass might have to give up there $1000/hr salaries and $400 million retirement packages, but who cares about them?
Get it? Why is someone who has more money than someone else obligated to give anything to them? Who earned it? And when did wealthy people somehow become exempt from humanity in your mind? Who cares about them? What a kind human being you are...
LOL, I will really lose sleep over not giving a crap about a rich person that obviously doesn't give a crap about me. I never said ALL rich people are bad or evil, it is just you trying to put those words in my mouth, probably because you have no other argument??
Hell, I never even waid Walmart was evil. I just think they should pay a decent wage for a decent days work.
If the world is a perfect place and everyone earns what they deserves, then you'd be right, wealthy people shouldn't be obligated to give to others.
But the sad truth is, the world isn't perfect. The capitalists in this country with their armies of lawyers and accountants and their good old boys networks take advantage of every loopholes in this country and squeeze everything out of the working class people.
If the government don't regulate how things work with things like minimum wage, the people with more power and resource will end up owning everything in this country and leave working class with nothing. This is just a recipe for social unrest. If you don't believe me, just go study history and see how and why communism come to power in Russia and China and many other places.
Like everything else, the job market is controlled by supply and demand. As long as the minimun wage doesn't mess up the supply and demand curve and end up causing more unemployment than necessary, it definitely has value.
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Wal Mart pays what the market will bear. There's a reason farmers can get away with paying $4/hr to illegals to pick fruit...because they will take it. There's a reason retail pays what it does...because people will work for that wage. If it was as broke of a system as you think it is, we would have retailers going out of business due to lack of workers. But that isnt happening. Like a previous poster said, no one is obligated to accept a position. The system works just fine.
You mean it's working for YOU just fine.
I think if you actually asked the working poor who qualify for rent/heat/food assistance how they feel about how well "the system" is working for them you would get a real earfull. It's much easier to sit back and accuse people of class envy and declare all's right with the world, isn't it.
You can talk till your blue in the face and you will never convince me that working people haven't EARNED the RIGHT to the DIGNITY of not having to apply for assitance from the goverment.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Such a thing is not definable. Where do you live? What do you do? What do you want? What is "fair" to you? Should the minimum wage be enough that even the teenagers making it be able to buy homes and brand new cars? Or just enough for a family of 4 to have a roof over their heads and bread to eat? Most importantly, how do the same people who claim to be environmentally-conscious also support their claim that consumption should be a right?
Only one country in history has attempted to prohibit money and prices. 25% of the population starved to death within 2 years. That country was Pol Pot's Cambodia.
I think the federal government should set a low ball minimum wage that is fixed to the rate of inflation. ($5.15 needs to be upped to about $7.50 asap thought)
And IF any particular state needs to have theirs higher, then they are free to do so.
And IF any particular state needs to have theirs higher, then they are free to do so.
It isnt hollow, you simply believe wages are not negotiable with companies like Walmart. I will propose the same question I proposed to Fitoz, if they arent negotiable, how are Walmart employee's working for more than the min wage?
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The fact is, our economy in general is working as intended. There will NEVER be financial equality in a free market system. Ever. Nor should there be. It's not a humanitarian issue, it's an economic one.
And dont start about how the rich dont help. It's BS:
Already, the Top 50 donors, over the course of their lifetimes, have thrown a dizzying $65 billion at charitable causes, many of them addressing the gaping inequalities that increasingly threaten domestic society, global stability, and world peace. The spread of globalization and the post-September 11 political climate have spurred some to direct their giving overseas, a trend mirrored in the corporate sector.
from http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_48/b3910401.htm
And to add to the discussion, Bill Gates has stated he plans on either spending or giving away the majority of his wealth before he dies...Warren Buffett has left ALL of his estate to charity...and on and on and on.
This thread isn't about min wage, it's about a living wage, which most Walmart employees aren't making, so I'll throw your question back in your face. If they can negoiate their wage why is it they are working for less then a living wage?
Define living wage, that is the problem with your argument. A "living" wage is politic speak meant to gain votes from the ignorant thinking there is such a thing as a "living" wage.
Just like the word "fair", it means nothing as a general term.
As for why they are making less than your definition of a "living" wage? Because they decided to enter into a contract for hire they felt was "fair" compensation for the work they perform.
LOL, the goverment taxes people and then turns around and gives the money back, minus their cut. Besides, I've already stated that not ALL rich people are evil. Does Bill Gates pay his peons minimum wage? No he doesn't, he pays good wages. I've heard that even his janiotrs from the early days of Microsoft are millionares from the stock options he gave them.
I'm begining to think that you suffer from "class superiority". You seem to have the attitude that hard working people don't deserveto be paid a decent wage, and be able to pay their bills and provide for their own retirement. An honest days work deserves an honest days pay. What kind of a person are you?
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And I return your volley with: Why do you target Wal Mart? They are no different than any other retailer. And to directly answer your question, it's because applicants arent skilled enough to negotiate, nor look for anything better. Wal Mart and others fill a niche.
I would have to agree that the term "living wage" is a political term, but that doesn't change the fact that the working poor should not have to resort to goverment handouts to eat, pay their heat bills, etc.
Do you hate poor people who work full time trying to stay one step ahead of the wolves? Do you really believe yourself so superior to someone else who is holding down a full time job but can't make ends meet?
Your argument is weak when you resort to trying to insiuate I hate the working poor because they agreed to work at a set rate you dont approve of. The problem is it isnt your place to tell them what they should work for, they can determine that for themselves.
If they dont like the wage they are working at, they can go find another job that pays better. Nothing is forcing them to work at Walmart or any other place of employment if they dont like it.
JD50
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Just because someone does not agree with how much you think someone should be paid does not mean that they hate poor people, thats just silly. Sorry, but someone should not be able to make a career and support a family by working at a retail store as a cashier. Yes, it is a good place to start for an unskilled worker, but then you move up from there. If someone is trying to support a family by working as a cashier or stocking shelves at a retail store and they have no intention to further their career, that is not my problem.
I'll say again, if someone doesn't like what they are being paid at Walmart, they are free to go work anywhere else they like.
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LOL, the goverment taxes people and then turns around and gives the money back, minus their cut. Besides, I've already stated that not ALL rich people are evil. Does Bill Gates pay his peons minimum wage? No he doesn't, he pays good wages. I've heard that even his janiotrs from the early days of Microsoft are millionares from the stock options he gave them.
I'm begining to think that you suffer from "class superiority". You seem to have the attitude that hard working people don't deserveto be paid a decent wage, and be able to pay their bills and provide for their own retirement. An honest days work deserves an honest days pay. What kind of a person are you?[/quote]
Well, because I am in IT I can answer all of your questions. I personally know a handful of people who work for Microsoft, and one is a groundskeeper in Redmond at the corp campus. He makes 9.50/HR, been there two years. I also dated a girl who works in their call center, she made 11/hr. Keep in mind neither of these two can afford to actually LIVE in Redmond, so they spend about 80/wk on fuel just to get to work. I personally have interviewed at MS, and I can tell you it was no picnic. The job payed 65k/yr, and I was underqualified. You know what I could afford if I *did* get the job? A 600 sq foot apt for 1100/mo. Or commute an hour each way.
As far as I am concerned, you know not of what you speak. Up until I was in my late 20's I never made more than 9.00/HR, and lived on my own, while going to college. I couldnt afford to go full time, so it took me 7 years to finish a 4 year degree. Only after I graduated did I break 12/HR. It was at the age of 32 I opened my first IRA with $50.00 and I have contributed every month SOMETHING.
Now, at 40, I am solidly in the middle class. I am not by any means rich, nor poor. But...I didnt like where I was, and I found a way to get through it, and over it. It takes desire. No one helped me, and I never asked for handouts. Most people who are "stuck" in crappy jobs have such crappy attitudes they will never get out. But not from lack of opportunity. So to answer your question, it has nothing to do with class superiority...because Im really just an average American, but I also realize success is dependant on ME and ME alone. There is a way out of every situation, if people want it enough.
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