Initial Trump mass deportation plan: 3 million

[Zaap]

Middle ground is enforcing the laws. Fines for employers hiring illegals and essentially running an illegal business. Not looking the other way when people are caught, not tolerating 'sanctuary cities' (ie the slave labor quarters of the wealthy) and making it clear the free ride is over for all involved in the illegal labor trade.

We can also stop pretending our entire economy revolves around those kneck deep in the illegal labor racket, just as every other country on earth is somehow able to feed themselves without bordering Mexico. (Imagine the impossibility of that!!!)

Mass deportation on the other hand is a stupid idea, and always has been. It's 100% unnessisary. If the illegal labor racket is dried up, so too will the reason for illegals to be here in mass numbers.

This is all common sense, demonstrated for all to see around the globe in pretty much EVERY nation not pretending that expoliting its neighbor for illegal labor and therefore skirting the labor laws is the backbone of their economy. Its pretty much just an obvious ruse sold to Americans (and youre racist if you dont go along with it!) and many have chosen to buy it like good sheep must.

After all, what kind of nitwit would really accept big business cheating a lot of their countrymen out of legal wages and work conditions unless they were sold a bill of goods that they benefit from it? (No one on earth has ever seen affordable food and services without their nation being overrun with illegal labor!)

 

[Chiropteran]

So you cite a right wing anti-immigration source for your numbers and then ask for an unbiased source from me?

I am providing a source, you aren't. I don't see it as funny, I just find it pathetic that you would try to defend your behavior. Whatever, I'll just skip reading your posts since you are apparently spewing BS that you can't even back up with a source.

 

[fskimospy]

I am providing a source, you aren't. I don't see it as funny, I just find it pathetic that you would try to defend your behavior. Whatever, I'll just skip reading your posts since you are apparently spewing BS that you can't even back up with a source.

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/11/560227...ortations-a-very-short-history-of-immigration

A quick google would have saved you plenty of time.

 

[Chiropteran]

Oh so if other countries' laws (which you don't understand) are now the standard, I assume you must believe we should start taking up much larger government programs including but not limited to single payer health care, yes?

Is the standard for immigration terrifying or not? Why are you moving on to irrelevant points instead of responding to what I said?

 

[First]

Is the standard for immigration terrifying or not? Why are you moving on to irrelevant points instead of responding to what I said?

I responded to what you said by showing you how absurd your standard is; just because other countries have restrictive immigration policies (which, btw, you haven't supported with any data) doesn't mean we should. Just because Japan is zealously xenophobic about immigration doesn't mean the U.S. should follow said policy.

 

[Chiropteran]

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/11/560227...ortations-a-very-short-history-of-immigration

A quick google would have saved you plenty of time.

ctrl-F "prison" 0 results found

I'm glad you are participating and supplying a source, but this one doesn't say shit about needing to build more prisons to enable deportation.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

We've been tip toeing around immigration for far too long. Corporations love the cheap undocumented labor, which I think has contributed to the demise of the middle class and strong trade jobs. Suburbanites just love their cheap vegetables, gardeners, landscapers and housecleaners, because it helps them forget the 1% keeps screwing them over. The Democrats pander because they need the votes as part of their coalition.

It will be painful but I would rather we reduce the flow in, get rid of the ones that are not contributing and provide a path to citizenship for the ones that want to contribute, as prior immigration waves did that did not have the convenience of simply crossing a border.

Small business likes illegal immigration. Big business needs to comply with e-verify.
Its mostly construction and contractors. See outside a Home Depot in CA for an example.
Personally I think there will be some kind of Reaganesque amnesty. People who are here without any serious infringements stay and everyone else has a harder time getting in.
I'm alright with this but that's irrelevant will the Trump voters be alright with it.

 

[Chiropteran]

I responded to what you said by showing you how absurd your standard is; just because other countries have restrictive immigration policies (which, btw, you haven't supported with any data) doesn't mean we should. Just because Japan is zealously xenophobic about immigration doesn't mean the U.S. should follow said policy.

YOU SAID IT WAS TERRIFYING.

How do you live in a world where virtually every country has horrible terrifying policies? That is what I want to know.

Or does strict immigration policy magically become un-terrifying after other completely unrelated things are changed?

 

[First]

Btw Chiropteran, any thoughts on the constitutional rights all undocumented non-citizens have?

 

[fskimospy]

ctrl-F "prison" 0 results found

I'm glad you are participating and supplying a source, but this one doesn't say shit about needing to build more prisons to enable deportation.

Where do you think people are kept while awaiting deportation proceedings?

 

[K1052]

Its mostly construction and contractors. See outside a Home Depot in CA for an example.

Or on a Trump Hotels work site.

 

[First]

YOU SAID IT WAS TERRIFYING.

How do you live in a world where virtually every country has horrible terrifying policies? That is what I want to know.

Japan has a horrible, perhaps terrifying immigration policy. Pretty straight forward. Are you now gonna respond yet to why suddenly you want to use the standard of other countries' domestic policies?

Also, you keep saying "other countries" or "virtually every country" has these immigration policies but don't support it with any data. Like I said, you don't understand other countries' immigration policies so stop pretending.

Or does strict immigration policy magically become un-terrifying after other completely unrelated things are changed?

"Strict" immigration is different from stupid, unconstitutional policy. Trump consistently advocated for the latter during the campaign.

 

[zinfamous]

\
Are you illiterate? The 3 million figure isn't all illegal immigrants, it's " the people that are criminal and have criminal records, gang members, drug dealers"

a number that was also debunked within the OP's post.

Which is hilarious.

 

[Chiropteran]

Where do you think people are kept while awaiting deportation proceedings?

Where do you think the convicted criminal immigrants are currently being held?

Let me spell it out for you since you seem to be a bit dense.

We have X immigrants ALREADY in prisons.

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ling-illegal-immigrant-criminals-america-2014

We don't need to build new special prisons for many criminal immigrants, they are already in prison.

But here is the truly magical thing: after we deport those criminals, we free up a LOT of space in our prison system. Space that is now available to be used for the next batch.

Guess what? This process can be repeated, indefinitely.

 

[Oyeve]

Why don't we just annex Mexico? Make them instant americans. Its easier to monitor the skies than land borders.

 

[pauldun170]

lulz
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...out-sanctuary-cities-and-illegal-immigration/
http://www.politico.com/states/illi...es-vow-to-remain-immigrant-sanctuaries-107313
http://remezcla.com/lists/culture/sanctuary-cities-time-of-trump/

 

[First]

Where do you think the convicted criminal immigrants are currently being held?

Let me spell it out for you since you seem to be a bit dense.

We have X immigrants ALREADY in prisons.

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ling-illegal-immigrant-criminals-america-2014

We don't need to build new special prisons for many criminal immigrants, they are already in prison.

But here is the truly magical thing: after we deport those criminals, we free up a LOT of space in our prison system. Space that is now available to be used for the next batch.

Guess what? This process can be repeated, indefinitely.

Yikes, you keep shitposting despite being told "Illegal immigrants!" have constitutional rights, and link to a substantially conservative source whose claims on the "study" are not linked anywhere in the piece.

The denial is strong with this one.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Or on a Trump Hotels work site.

Being fair to Trump I'd bet they are no more strict or easy than any other builder.
Anyone on this forum ever check the citizenship of someone doing roof work or paving work or snow plow work at their home?

 

[fskimospy]

Where do you think the convicted criminal immigrants are currently being held?

Let me spell it out for you since you seem to be a bit dense.

We have X immigrants ALREADY in prisons.

http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ling-illegal-immigrant-criminals-america-2014

We don't need to build new special prisons for many criminal immigrants, they are already in prison.

But here is the truly magical thing: after we deport those criminals, we free up a LOT of space in our prison system. Space that is now available to be used for the next batch.

Guess what? This process can be repeated, indefinitely.

Criminal immigrants do not equal illegal immigrants and even the source-free, dubious statements in your link from a right wing website show a woefully inadequate number of beds to support plans to deport several million people in a short period of time.

It's really clear you're just fishing for google links to tell you what you want to hear. Why?

 

[zinfamous]

Once people understand that there is law enforcement actually going on in this country.... the border security situation will largely fix itself.

Uh huh. Just like I tell myself that my cat will eventually realize that my scolding and chasing her to stop scratching the wall is effective law enforcement.

To you, a criminal is a criminal. They don't care about laws, right? what is that argument about gun control that all 2nd amendment fellaters like to prattle on about? something something, make guns illegal, only criminals will have guns, because criminals don't care about laws?

But somehow, in non-thinking rightest Trumpland, illegal criminal immigrants are going to be that magic "criminal" demographic that finally responds to laws once they are punished?

OK, buddy.

 

[Chiropteran]

Yikes, you keep shitposting despite being told "Illegal immigrants!" have constitutional rights, and link to a substantially conservative source whose claims on the "study" are not linked anywhere in the piece.

The denial is strong with this one.

I didn't think your useless point wasn't worth responding to, but since you are still going on about it:

Can illegal immigrants vote? Outside of voting for Hillary, no. Can they bear arms? No. They don't have all the rights of the constitution, one exception notwithstanding.

 

[zinfamous]

Middle ground is enforcing the laws. Fines for employers hiring illegals and essentially running an illegal business. Not looking the other way when people are caught, not tolerating 'sanctuary cities' (ie the slave labor quarters of the wealthy) and making it clear the free ride is over for all involved in the illegal labor trade.

We can also stop pretending our entire economy revolves around those kneck deep in the illegal labor racket, just as every other country on earth is somehow able to feed themselves without bordering Mexico. (Imagine the impossibility of that!!!)

Mass deportation on the other hand is a stupid idea, and always has been. It's 100% unnessisary. If the illegal labor racket is dried up, so too will the reason for illegals to be here in mass numbers.

This is all common sense, demonstrated for all to see around the globe in pretty much EVERY nation not pretending that expoliting its neighbor for illegal labor and therefore skirting the labor laws is the backbone of their economy. Its pretty much just an obvious ruse sold to Americans (and youre racist if you dont go along with it!) and many have chosen to buy it like good sheep must.

After all, what kind of nitwit would really accept big business cheating a lot of their countrymen out of legal wages and work conditions unless they were sold a bill of goods that they benefit from it? (No one on earth has ever seen affordable food and services without their nation being overrun with illegal labor!)

Stop that! this is not the place for common sense.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Uh huh. Just like I tell myself that my cat will eventually realize that my scolding and chasing her to stop scratching the wall is effective law enforcement.

To you, a criminal is a criminal. They don't care about laws, right? what is that argument about gun control that all 2nd amendment fellaters like to prattle on about? something something, make guns illegal, only criminals will have guns, because criminals don't care about laws?

But somehow, in non-thinking rightest Trumpland, illegal criminal immigrants are going to be that magic "criminal" demographic that finally responds to laws once they are punished?

OK, buddy.

Or the boarder agents start taking bribes to not be at certain locations at certain times.

 

[Chiropteran]

Criminal immigrants do not equal illegal immigrants and even the source-free, dubious statements in your link from a right wing website show a woefully inadequate number of beds to support plans to deport several million people in a short period of time.

How do you define a short period of time? I don't think Trump said it would take a week, or a month, or even a year. The process will start immediately, but even if it does take a few years I don't think he broke any promises.

And if your only issue with my link is the source, you are not arguing effectively. Ad-hominum is next to the lowest level of debate. If it's a bad article it should be really easy for you to find a better source to contradict it, when all you can do is saw something like 'ew, it's a rightwing news source' it doesn't really do much for your argument.

It's really clear you're just fishing for google links to tell you what you want to hear. Why?

Absolutely correct. I wanted to know the number of immigrants in prison, so I googled it and took the top result. I'm looking for basic facts, there is nothing biased about the search query I use. I repeat: if you have issue with the data, find a better source.

 

[K1052]

Being fair to Trump I'd bet they are no more strict or easy than any other builder.
Anyone on this forum ever check the citizenship of someone doing roof work or paving work or snow plow work at their home?

And that's the issue at the heart of this. We really want their cheap labor but don't fundamentally want to acknowledge that we do because it makes us look/feel/be shitty. Thus the logical thing is to punish the very people that we've taken advantage of for letting us take advantage of them. The bankrupt morality surrounding this issue is vomit inducing.