Indictments coming...

[SlowSpyder]

Only IF the republicans had any balls and patriotic sense of Country before party.

So you say impeach even with a total and complete lack of evidence? Impeachment isn't meant to be a tool used because you didn't get your way, and that's all that's happening here.

 

[zinfamous]

So you say impeach even with a total and complete lack of evidence? Impeachment isn't meant to be a tool used because you didn't get your way, and that's all that's happening here.

There's far more evidence for Trump's multiple felonies than there is for your claims of US citizenship. If only you were literate and would actually read the report. You clearly haven't (or you're clearly just illiterate--because no one who read it would honestly make the conclusion that you do).

 

[soundforbjt]

So you say impeach even with a total and complete lack of evidence? Impeachment isn't meant to be a tool used because you didn't get your way, and that's all that's happening here.

10 acts of obstructing justice alone is more than enough evidence to impeach, republicans lack the balls to buck Trump's base unlike the republicans during Nixon's term.

 

[SMOGZINN]

So you say impeach even with a total and complete lack of evidence? Impeachment isn't meant to be a tool used because you didn't get your way, and that's all that's happening here.

There is lots of evidence. How many convictions already? Individual #1?
And, it should be noted that impeachment is a political tool. It was always meant to be a political tool. Our Founding Fathers who wrote it said that it was a political tool.

 

[Jhhnn]

So you say impeach even with a total and complete lack of evidence? Impeachment isn't meant to be a tool used because you didn't get your way, and that's all that's happening here.

Like, totally exonerated, Man! Totally!

It's funny how neither Mueller or his report said any such thing, huh?

Trump Co is operating on the premise of the big lie as did their fascist predecessors-

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.
It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

That's from Mein Kampf, unsurprisingly.

 

[soundforbjt]

That's from Mein Kampf, unsurprisingly.

The only book that I would believe that Trump actually read, he has a copy of it.

 

[Moonbeam]

The desire for the approval of others is not a disease in and of itself. After all, we are social animals and the desire for that approval is one of the main motivating factors that keeps most of us from becoming a bunch of murderhobos. It is the fear of being wrong that becomes a disease, and yes, this forum serves up constant reminders of that. It's sad really. Take a look at good friend SlowSpyder and all his shitposts from 2017 to now. With every pro-Trump post, he makes it that much harder in his mind to admit he was duped. I say "in his mind" because, as both of us know, that is the only place where his ego matters. He could post today, right this second, something to the effect of "sorry guys, I know I made a whole lot of ignorant posts over the last few years, but I realize now I was wrong about Trump" and most here would instantly forget all that history as if it never happened. He would see it isn't a big deal, everyone gets things wrong from time to time, and nobody gives a shit about his ego other than himself. Hell, many of us would respect him for having the integrity to admit he made a mistake. Instead, he has to continue to demonize the left with more and more ridiculous nonsense in order to maintain the world view that they are worse than the man that gets harder and harder to defend by the second.

It’s the same story with a need for supportive love by dependent mammal new horns. A natural need can be used for extortion and control. Once you cave to that, and we all had to to survive, you have a disease. We should no longer be dependent but we carry the rage of being broken and fear to let it out. If we do we will know,feel, our deepest pain, and that’s the last thing we want to remember.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I think I've come to grips with Mueller's thinking. He outlines 10 acts of obstruction, in section 2 of his findings. It just takes one tiny step forward to say these would be indictable offenses. Just say "those seem to be crimes...we could put an official stamp on it and call it an indictment". But he absolutely refuses to connect those 2 dots, because of the OLC.

He expects the House to do its job and connect the dots. Also, he doesn't believe it's his job to connect them. Sorry, but shame on you Mr Mueller. Everyone at the hearing kept repeating that phrase. "Nobody is above the law". And yet, there we were accepting the premise that regardless of crimes, the president of the United States can not be held accountable. How is that consistent?

I think it's pretty clear, given the "not exonerated" language, that Mueller personally thinks the President committed obstruction of justice. There's really no other way to explain the contrast to the language about not establishing the crime of conspiracy. But that is not the determination that would be necessary to indict. He would also have to determine the likelihood that courts would agree with his reading of the obstruction statutes and the likelihood that a jury would find the requisite facts beyond a reasonable doubt. Those are the kinds of determinations he did not ultimately reach because they were moot given the OLC memo. And I don’t fully understand why Mueller is unable to explain this. Again, shame on you Mr. Mueller..

If Mueller’s intent is to communicate to Congress and the people that “Trump committed crimes, do something about it!” then he is leaving too much room for people to fail to get the message. He seems to think his job ends at describing the criminal activity without actually labeling it criminal activity. But if he stops there, and the recipients of his message fail to act, then he has failed to communicate his intent. He needs to do more. Step up, Mr. Mueller.

Right now he’s like a crewman on the Titanic who tells the captain “there is an iceberg in our path” and then the Captain wanders off to take a nap and he shrugs and says “well I did my part”.

 

[trenchfoot]

So say that the Dems take the precipitous leap, go all in and impeach Trump with Mueller's report in hand that specifically points to multiple instances where Trump committed obstruction.

The ball bounces over to Mitch's side and of course they're going to defend Trump. What I'd like to know is how Mitch and his fellow Repub Anti-Constitutionalists are going to argue a compelling case that either disproves or convincingly dismisses what Muller's report describes in minute detail besides their habitual reliance on lies and deception to get their way?

As an aside, I ran into this little nugget about Trump (I assume) as attributed to it being printed on a T-shirt: "Elect a Clown - Expect a Circus". *insert Ringling Bros. calliope music here*

edit - After some thought, I'm thinking this may have already been posted here? IDK.....

 

[zinfamous]

So say that the Dems take the precipitous leap, go all in and impeach Trump with Mueller's report in hand that specifically points to multiple instances where Trump committed obstruction.

The ball bounces over to Mitch's side and of course they're going to defend Trump. What I'd like to know is how Mitch and his fellow Repub Anti-Constitutionalists are going to argue a compelling case that either disproves or convincingly dismisses what Muller's report describes in minute detail besides their habitual reliance on lies and deception to get their way?

As an aside, I ran into this little nugget about Trump (I assume) as attributed to it being printed on a T-shirt: "Elect a Clown - Expect a Circus". *insert Ringling Bros. calliope music here*

edit - After some thought, I'm thinking this may have already been posted here? IDK.....

yes, the thought has been posted here, and other threads, for more than a year now, lol.

Point is, Trump needs to be impeached now. The results don't matter. That is the sworn duty of Congress, regardless of party. Dems claiming that it won't be a "political win" are just bitches. Republican quislings will have to own their support of the QOTUS if they block an obviously justified indictment--the evidence being so endlessly overwhelming for this Orange Fucksphere. This is nothing like Bill Clinton. Absolutely nothing like it.

Impeachment means full exposure of all the facts, endlessly, with I think, multiple grand jury testimony as a possibility? The people need to hear the facts again and again and again, because the GOP refuses to read the actual Mueller report. They need this shit hammered into their retarded skulls endlessly, because they are currently satisfied with their handlers just feeding them abject lies with little push-back.

No quarter. the tidal wave of subpoenas and disclosure that comes with Impeachment is too much for the rightwing retardosphere to bear, I think.

 

[trenchfoot]

yes, the thought has been posted here, and other threads, for more than a year now, lol.

Point is, Trump needs to be impeached now. The results don't matter. That is the sworn duty of Congress, regardless of party. Dems claiming that it won't be a "political win" are just bitches. Republican quislings will have to own their support of the QOTUS if they block an obviously justified indictment--the evidence being so endlessly overwhelming for this Orange Fucksphere. This is nothing like Bill Clinton. Absolutely nothing like it.

Impeachment means full exposure of all the facts, endlessly, with I think, multiple grand jury testimony as a possibility? The people need to hear the facts again and again and again, because the GOP refuses to read the actual Mueller report. They need this shit hammered into their retarded skulls endlessly, because they are currently satisfied with their handlers just feeding them abject lies with little push-back.

No quarter. the tidal wave of subpoenas and disclosure that comes with Impeachment is too much for the rightwing retardosphere to bear, I think.

Seems to me impeachment of Trump is a given, it's just a matter of timing that's of critical concern. The Dems now have everything they need to nail Trump to his evangelist supporter's cross and leave him there as an example and a symbol of how justice still has value, is still relevant no matter how Trump, McConnell and the other Repubs up on the hill have thrown it out the window with the wash water in their efforts to cling to power no matter the cost.

It's a matter for the world to see that America still has its core values intact and can be relied on to stay that way.

 

[zinfamous]

Seems to me impeachment of Trump is a given, it's just a matter of timing that's of critical concern. The Dems now have everything they need to nail Trump to his evangelist supporter's cross and leave him there as an example and a symbol of how justice still has value, is still relevant no matter how Trump, McConnell and the other Repubs up on the hill have thrown it out the window with the wash water in their efforts to cling to power no matter the cost.

It's a matter for the world to see that America still has its core values intact and can be relied on to stay that way.

I'm wondering if they would be better served to find some way (is it even possible?) to just go after Mitch for shirking his obvious constitutional duty, hang him up with impeachment charges (let's think about the refusal to sanction Russia for multiple elction interference, while signing a cushy Mitch-only profit for a Russian steel company in Kentucky), and basically bait Trump into abandoning Mitch because he's "too weak" to simply allow something like that to happen.

Seriously: I bet if dems just went after The Turtle, even without a reason, Trump would be so stupid as to abandon support and tweet Mitch's doom with a lot of daily insults. Sessions that motherfucker. Especially in an election year for him!

 

[trenchfoot]

I'm wondering if they would be better served to find some way (is it even possible?) to just go after Mitch for shirking his obvious constitutional duty, hang him up with impeachment charges (let's think about the refusal to sanction Russia for multiple elction interference, while signing a cushy Mitch-only profit for a Russian steel company in Kentucky), and basically bait Trump into abandoning Mitch because he's "too weak" to simply allow something like that to happen.

Seriously: I bet if dems just went after The Turtle, even without a reason, Trump would be so stupid as to abandon support and tweet Mitch's doom with a lot of daily insults. Sessions that motherfucker. Especially in an election year for him!

Sounds awfully good to me.

 

[pcgeek11]

The results don't matter. That is the sworn duty of Congress, regardless of party. Dems claiming that it won't be a "political win" are just bitches.

I agree with this 100%. If the Democrats believe as they claim they should march forward with Impeachment regardless of whatever the Senate is going to do or not do. That shouldn't be part of the equation at all.

 

[zinfamous]

I agree with this 100%. If the Democrats believe as they claim they should march forward with Impeachment regardless of whatever the Senate is going to do or not do. That shouldn't be part of the equation at all.

yes, but it's also not about belief. The abjectly clear evidence is actually real evidence and so the crimes are, indeed, very real. The only calculation is politics. This has nothing to do with belief. Hell, impeachment doesn't even require any kind of actual crime, it never has--even though that isn't particularly relevant here because we are talking about mountains of evidence for at least SIX FELONIES, full stop.

Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[pcgeek11]

yes, but it's also not about belief. The abjectly clear evidence is actually real evidence and so the crimes are, indeed, very real. The only calculation is politics. This has nothing to do with belief. Hell, impeachment doesn't even require any kind of actual crime, it never has--even though that isn't particularly relevant here because we are talking about mountains of evidence for at least SIX FELONIES, full stop.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Then why waste any more time, just do it.

 

[Stryke1983]

Then why waste any more time, just do it.

Because the Republicans who have the majority in the Senate will block it due to not believing in country before party. The goal is to get Trump out as soon as possible due to his incompetence and corruption. Impeachment might be quicker, but it's very unlikely to work and it could potentially make the more reliable method, the 2020 election, more difficult. There is a valid argument for both options. There is no valid argument against whether he deserves to be impeached though. He's already done more than either of the prior presidents who were (or would have been) impeached. It just comes down to what method will remove the human stain the quickest.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So you say impeach even with a total and complete lack of evidence? Impeachment isn't meant to be a tool used because you didn't get your way, and that's all that's happening here.

Oh no, when there is a total and complete lack of evidence impeachment for violating law should not happen. Fortunately, the report mentions obstruction committed and the only ones who refuse to understand that are like McConnell, putting themselves and their favored above the nation. But Mitch says that Dems aren't trying to stop interference although the legislation clearly has that intent because Dems would get an advantage. Why? Because trying to prevent hacking, having verified records that cannot be electronically fudged, campaigns having to report foreign activity work against Trump. Why? Because you might not get your way and Trump and perhaps others have to contend with a far more honest election.

The Report cites obstruction and if there were no evidence there would be nothing to cite. You argument is absurd on the face of it for that reason alone. BTW, no law needs to be broken for impeachment. Any real conservative would know that. High crimes etc in the language of the day of writing the Constitution is equivalent to displaying behaviors and taking actions that Congress disapproves of. Franklin used the word "obnoxious" as being sufficient. But again an informed person who at least pretends to have a valid argument would know that.

 

[UNCjigga]

Then why waste any more time, just do it.

There’s still a lot more evidence to uncover, in terms of following the money, the intelligence trail, and fully revealing the scope of obstruction. I’m all for opening a formal impeachment inquiry, especially if that helps courts to enforce subpoenas the House has already issued to several Trump campaign/admin/Org associates.

But actual articles of impeachment on obstruction alone (or obstruction + campaign finance violations) at this point would be premature, given there’s still a debate about whether an underlying crime occurred with Russia or other foreign interests.

 

[brandonbull]

Like, totally exonerated, Man! Totally!

It's funny how neither Mueller or his report said any such thing, huh?

Trump Co is operating on the premise of the big lie as did their fascist predecessors-



That's from Mein Kampf, unsurprisingly.

After Mueller's testimony, you are still in your bubble? Even the hardcore Progressheviks are backing away from Mueller and impeachment talks.

 

[brandonbull]

Oh no, when there is a total and complete lack of evidence impeachment for violating law should not happen. Fortunately, the report mentions obstruction committed and the only ones who refuse to understand that are like McConnell, putting themselves and their favored above the nation. But Mitch says that Dems aren't trying to stop interference although the legislation clearly has that intent because Dems would get an advantage. Why? Because trying to prevent hacking, having verified records that cannot be electronically fudged, campaigns having to report foreign activity work against Trump. Why? Because you might not get your way and Trump and perhaps others have to contend with a far more honest election.

The Report cites obstruction and if there were no evidence there would be nothing to cite. You argument is absurd on the face of it for that reason alone. BTW, no law needs to be broken for impeachment. Any real conservative would know that. High crimes etc in the language of the day of writing the Constitution is equivalent to displaying behaviors and taking actions that Congress disapproves of. Franklin used the word "obnoxious" as being sufficient. But again an informed person who at least pretends to have a valid argument would know that.

News articles seem to be evidence nowadays.

 

[zinfamous]

News articles seem to be evidence nowadays.

I'm sorry, brandonbull, but you should know by now that the "FWD:FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: FWD: SEE THE NEW DIRTY DEM LIES AND TRICKS!" emails that you get from Brandonsretarduncle@aol.com are not a valid source of information.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

News articles seem to be evidence nowadays.

When they cite events as they happen to be, like the Mueller report with obstruction, you know verifiable things, then they point out the evidence but are not evidence in themselves. Since what I'm speaking of is accurate your statement is without relevance. Mitch is accurately described as opposing action against anti-interference legislation. He does so because the reduction or elimination of Russian interference or others would benefit Democrats. Republicans can't win honestly so enemies of the nation are needed to subvert elections. All that is, of course, factual and from news articles. Now Trump supporters don't want those kinds of news articles, they want the ones that lie to support people you back, like Trump.

I don't buy much outright but I don't need to. Trump provides evidence all on his own as do others like Mitch.

 

[hal2kilo]

I'm wondering if they would be better served to find some way (is it even possible?) to just go after Mitch for shirking his obvious constitutional duty, hang him up with impeachment charges (let's think about the refusal to sanction Russia for multiple elction interference, while signing a cushy Mitch-only profit for a Russian steel company in Kentucky), and basically bait Trump into abandoning Mitch because he's "too weak" to simply allow something like that to happen.

Seriously: I bet if dems just went after The Turtle, even without a reason, Trump would be so stupid as to abandon support and tweet Mitch's doom with a lot of daily insults. Sessions that motherfucker. Especially in an election year for him!

I've thought about this stategy a lot lately. I don't think he can be impeached, he would have to be censured. I need to look back and see if Mills who was speaker of the house forever back in the 60's, and self destructed as being an alcoholic and having a fight with his stripper er girl friend and ending up in the Tidal Pool, was censured or if he resigned out of embarrasment.

Edit:https://www.senate.gov/reference/Index/Impeachment.htm
Looks like he could be impeached afterall.

Wilbur Mills:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Mills

Could of sworn he had been Speaker. I remember him falling asleep with the gavel in his hand more than once.

 

[umbrella39]

Then why waste any more time, just do it.

Nope. This will be Trump's Benghazi. Trumps Email Server... Keep it in the press every couple of weeks. Reap what you sow...