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Indictments coming...

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werepossum said:
Draining the swamp only works if the alligators and assorted monsters are removed more quickly than they can be replaced. I predict that Trump will break the record in pardons, but given that much of his own party hates him, he probably can't replace them all that quickly.
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Honest question here, have presidential pardons ever been challenged by any court?
If he starts handing out pardons to people like Halloween candy is there any way to keep him from subverting the rule of law in this manner?
 
werepossum said:
Draining the swamp only works if the alligators and assorted monsters are removed more quickly than they can be replaced. I predict that Trump will break the record in pardons, but given that much of his own party hates him, he probably can't replace them all that quickly.
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All very true so we can only hope that justice is actually served by these proceedings.
 
CrackRabbit said:
Honest question here, have presidential pardons ever been challenged by any court?
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I don't think so, I've always heard they are permanent.

Maybe we'll see, because Trump is definitely, beyond a doubt, dumb enough to try and pardon himself. Nemo judex in causa sua is likely both Latin and Greek to him.
 
CrackRabbit said:
Honest question here, have presidential pardons ever been challenged by any court?
If he starts handing out pardons to people like Halloween candy is there any way to keep him from subverting the rule of law in this manner?
Click to expand...

As of right now there is no way to stop him from subverting the rule of law, no, outside of law enforcement simply refusing to follow him any longer.

As it stands now the only recourse is impeachment. Then again, as per the most recent ruling Trump could simply have Congress killed if they tried and then pardon the murderers. (DC is federal jurisdiction) That’s not a joke either.
 
fskimospy said:
As of right now there is no way to stop him from subverting the rule of law, no, outside of law enforcement simply refusing to follow him any longer.

As it stands now the only recourse is impeachment. Then again, as per the most recent ruling Trump could simply have Congress killed if they tried and then pardon the murderers. (DC is federal jurisdiction) That’s not a joke either.
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Incorrect. The Cabinet can invoke the 25th amendment to remove a president.

Beyond that, Trump can't stop the investigation no matter how many people he pardons.

The most important part of it all is for us to understand how vulnerable we were to a propaganda campaign of unprecedented audacity & scope. It runs a lot deeper, I suspect, than most people imagine.

Let's face it- Trump as President never was a sane proposition. It's just not & never will be. Yet here we are.
 
Jhhnn said:
Incorrect. The Cabinet can invoke the 25th amendment to remove a president.

Beyond that, Trump can't stop the investigation no matter how many people he pardons.

The most important part of it all is for us to understand how vulnerable we were to a propaganda campaign of unprecedented audacity & scope. It runs a lot deeper, I suspect, than most people imagine.

Let's face it- Trump as President never was a sane proposition. It's just not & never will be. Yet here we are.
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Page testimony had tons of bombshells in it, and much news in other countries has come out relating to Papadopoulous. It's coming. I believe we'll likely hear more about Hope Hicks as well because both Page & Papa were communicating with her, which likely means that they were trying to communicate with the dotard. It's all going to come crashing down at some point.
 
Maxima1 said:
Page testimony had tons of bombshells in it, and much news in other countries has come out relating to Papadopoulous. It's coming. I believe we'll likely hear more about Hope Hicks as well because both Page & Papa were communicating with her, which likely means that they were trying to communicate with the dotard. It's all going to come crashing down at some point.
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I figure Mueller & Co will sort out the sordid details, whatever they may be. There's a lot more to it, however. How in the world did conservatives' brains get softened enough to even imagine that Trump was capable of serving the people as our President? I mean, a person had to be at least temporarily incapacitated to pull that lever. How deep does it go? Have many Americans become thus incapacitated in a cultural sort of way? Will they always be this nutty or can they somehow overcome their affliction?
 
Jhhnn said:
I figure Mueller & Co will sort out the sordid details, whatever they may be. There's a lot more to it, however. How in the world did conservatives' brains get softened enough to even imagine that Trump was capable of serving the people as our President? I mean, a person had to be at least temporarily incapacitated to pull that lever. How deep does it go? Have many Americans become thus incapacitated in a cultural sort of way? Will they always be this nutty or can they somehow overcome their affliction?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's just conservatism so much as that many people take a very superficial approach to elections. It's closer to a high school election than something with serious long-term implications.

Many treat it like a popularity contest: who has the best personality? Who told me the most things I want to hear? Who delivered the best zingers at the debate? Never mind the feasibility of what they're promising, or how it affects other people (except for many Trump supporters, who seem to like policies that spite others) -- just pick whoever has the best soundbites. Some even switch votes simply because they think it's time to change, never mind what they're changing to.

The one consolation is that the public does react when policies get bad enough... Trump's low approval rating and the Nov. 7th elections offer hope for 2018, at least so long as Republicans haven't rigged too many voting districts.
 
Commodus said:
I don't think it's just conservatism so much as that many people take a very superficial approach to elections. It's closer to a high school election than something with serious long-term implications.

Many treat it like a popularity contest: who has the best personality? Who told me the most things I want to hear? Who delivered the best zingers at the debate? Never mind the feasibility of what they're promising, or how it affects other people (except for many Trump supporters, who seem to like policies that spite others) -- just pick whoever has the best soundbites. Some even switch votes simply because they think it's time to change, never mind what they're changing to.

The one consolation is that the public does react when policies get bad enough... Trump's low approval rating and the Nov. 7th elections offer hope for 2018, at least so long as Republicans haven't rigged too many voting districts.
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Why do you try to normalize Trumpism? His presidency rests on a mountain of nuttiness & lies induced by decades of relentless right wing agitprop. At this point the poor bastards are utterly defenseless because their heads don't really work right anymore. There is no other way that he possibly could have become President.
 
Jhhnn said:
Why do you try to normalize Trumpism? His presidency rests on a mountain of nuttiness & lies induced by decades of relentless right wing agitprop. At this point the poor bastards are utterly defenseless because their heads don't really work right anymore. There is no other way that he possibly could have become President.
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I'm not saying he's normal. Rather, he's exploiting a root-level lack of sincere interest in politics. In the past, it wasn't that damaging because you could at least assume they were experienced politicians with a baseline level of competence. Now, however, we're seeing just why that election-as-popularity-contest mindset is truly dangerous: when people elect someone who really doesn't know what he's doing and is openly spiteful, he gets a pass where a broadly informed electorate would never have let him reach office.
 
Commodus said:
I'm not saying he's normal. Rather, he's exploiting a root-level lack of sincere interest in politics. In the past, it wasn't that damaging because you could at least assume they were experienced politicians with a baseline level of competence. Now, however, we're seeing just why that election-as-popularity-contest mindset is truly dangerous: when people elect someone who really doesn't know what he's doing and is openly spiteful, he gets a pass where a broadly informed electorate would never have let him reach office.
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Well, yeh, but Trumpsters do care about politics, a lot. They're just nuts, unfortunately. I'm sure they also imagine that they're well informed- by talk radio, Fox News, Breitbart, Newsmax, Jerry Falwell Jr & a host of others as well.

The state of denial among them over Russian meddling on behalf of Trump is just part of it. Their heads are ruled by denial in many other ways as well. It's not an accident. They've been led to believe in all sorts of stupid & divisive shit.
 
Jhhnn said:
I figure Mueller & Co will sort out the sordid details, whatever they may be. There's a lot more to it, however. How in the world did conservatives' brains get softened enough to even imagine that Trump was capable of serving the people as our President? I mean, a person had to be at least temporarily incapacitated to pull that lever. How deep does it go? Have many Americans become thus incapacitated in a cultural sort of way? Will they always be this nutty or can they somehow overcome their affliction?
Click to expand...


The Trump Three Ring Circus took a turn down Yellow Brick Road and is now at the corner of Bannon Boulevard and Wall St.

Meanwhile, GOP Traffic Control is diverting traffic via hacking all GPS units and policing local traffic and directing them from Main St. onto Uranium Alley and then onto Hillary Hysteria Highway which will then merge the flow of traffic onto the Funny Farm Freeway to Hell in a Basket resulting in a lane closure traffic pileup at the Chris Christie controlled G. Washington Bridge.

But it's all good because the very intelligent conservative minded folks voted for it all so they must like it somehow. 😉

edit - syntax
 
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Remember those 15 or 30 (what was the number?) sealed indictments that were issued last week?

Man, the Trumps are sure going to have a nice warm welcome when they land on US soil this week. ....I wonder if some of them will kinda just choose to stay behind, for reasons?
 
zinfamous said:
Remember those 15 or 30 (what was the number?) sealed indictments that were issued last week?

Man, the Trumps are sure going to have a nice warm welcome when they land on US soil this week. ....I wonder if some of them will kinda just choose to stay behind, for reasons?
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I think it was twelve, iirc.
 
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