Indictments coming...

[rise]

Before the Heller decision we had 150 years of precedent where the 2nd amendment was viewed as a states right issue and not an individual issue. Just because treason currently has a narrow definition doesn't mean that it will always have a narrow definition. Of course it's highly unlikely that a conservative supreme court would go against precedent but that in no way means the definition is final and can only be interpreted to have a very narrow definition.

One part holding up the treason charge is the part about being at war. Considering how times have changed and that war could potentially include things like cyber warfare, its plausible that the Russian acts could be seen as acts of war.

Of course one would not only have to prove that trump was helping the Russians but there would also have to be people who were helping as well who would have to testify against trump that what they were doing was in fact treason.


All that being said, trump will be seen as a traitor in the court of public opinion, regardless of what charges are brought against him, if its shown that he helped the Russians and they helped him.

You have a valid point in that the rukes of what is an act of war will have to be more clearly defined soon. This is just as much of an attack on our country as, lets say tonkin gulf? I am just throwing it out there as an example. Not sure what it would take to re-write treason, nor that it would need to be, really. So long as their are other adequate tools to punish the traitor...

But I do love shouting "Traitor!" at any mall walker i come across.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Before the Heller decision we had 150 years of precedent where the 2nd amendment was viewed as a states right issue and not an individual issue. Just because treason currently has a narrow definition doesn't mean that it will always have a narrow definition. Of course it's highly unlikely that a conservative supreme court would go against precedent but that in no way means the definition is final and can only be interpreted to have a very narrow definition.

One part holding up the treason charge is the part about being at war. Considering how times have changed and that war could potentially include things like cyber warfare, its plausible that the Russian acts could be seen as acts of war.

Of course one would not only have to prove that trump was helping the Russians but there would also have to be people who were helping as well who would have to testify against trump that what they were doing was in fact treason.


All that being said, trump will be seen as a traitor in the court of public opinion, regardless of what charges are brought against him, if its shown that he helped the Russians and they helped him.

The difference with Heller etc... is they were interpretations of a right outlined in the Constitution. Treason is the only crime actually defined by the Constitution. Sure the precedent could be tested but I personally would be surprised if it happened and succeeded. Just my opinion.

 

[rise]

I;m thinking we should start consulting astrologists yto get some inkling what exit strategy this buffon is going to implement.

He's imploding..

 

[UNCjigga]

I;m thinking we should start consulting astrologists yto get some inkling what exit strategy this buffon is going to implement.

He's imploding..

It's been a slow-burn meltdown since his inauguration crowd size. This administration never had a chance.

 

[jackstar7]

Because the United States v. Burr established the definition of “levying war” for the purpose of treason. It requires an assemblage of people who intend to use actual force against the United States.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a3_3_1-2s22.html

There’s a huge divide between what people generally think of as treasonous acts and what the law defines as treason.

I'm not talking about treason though. I'm thinking more along the lines of previous acts that were considered acts of war (found elsewhere):
Grenada getting too cozy with Cuba met those criteria.
A completely fictional attack on American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin met those criteria.
The super-dubious destruction of an American battleship in Havana harbor met those criteria.
Lots of things can be acts of war, and actively working to undermine the legitimacy of a foreign government clears that hurdle a lot easier than some of the examples above.


My focus is on the Russians in this case. I'm not saying that any of the American actors in this drama perpetrated acts of war against the U.S. (based on what we know).

 

[Puffnstuff]

I;m thinking we should start consulting astrologists yto get some inkling what exit strategy this buffon is going to implement.

He's imploding..

Well he does look to Paula White for spiritual guidance...

 

[soundforbjt]

I;m thinking we should start consulting astrologists yto get some inkling what exit strategy this buffon is going to implement.

He's imploding..

Well he can’t golf because of the optics, so he’s stuck inside eating cheeseburgers and tweeting. Why’d he even bother going to FL other than to cost taxpayers money, he could be in the WH doing the same thing.

 

[jackstar7]

Well he can’t golf because of the optics, so he’s stuck inside eating cheeseburgers and tweeting. Why’d he even bother going to FL other than to cost taxpayers money, he could be in the WH doing the same thing.

That dump?

 

[soundforbjt]

That dump?

Melania hasn’t finished redecorating yet?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Melania hasn’t finished redecorating yet?

I wonder how many plates she's broken so far?

 

[soundforbjt]

I wonder how many plates she's broken so far?

I’m hoping she’ll hit Drumpf along side the head with a cast iron skillet.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I’m hoping she’ll hit Drumpf along side the head with a cast iron skillet.

She could say that she was cheeto seasoning it right?

 

[vi edit]

Gates is now being officially reported as flipping and testifying against Manafort.

 

[skull]

Gates is now being officially reported as flipping and testifying against Manafort.

They say where that puts manafort? I thought manafort had a plea deal and was going to testify.

 

[vi edit]

They say where that puts manafort? I thought manafort had a plea deal and was going to testify.

No, Manafort is not cooperating at all. They are putting the squeeze on him big time.

 

[fskimospy]

This thread is amusing to read from the beginning.

 

[Puffnstuff]

No, Manafort is not cooperating at all. They are putting the squeeze on him big time.

Word is that he might have hired a high powered attorney in the last week or so since the heat was turned up but nothing official that I can find.
https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2018/02/10/manafort-new-defense-lawyer-402846

But you can add bank fraud to Manafort's list of alleged crimes.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/manafort-filing-bank-fraud-allegations/index.html

 

[Fanatical Meat]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/18/politics/gates-manafort-plea-deal/index.html

LA Times: Former Trump aide Gates to plead guilty, testify against Manafort

apparently he tried to get some big GOP donors to help him out with the legal costs and none would step up to the plate.

 

[skull]

No, Manafort is not cooperating at all. They are putting the squeeze on him big time.

Interesting does that mean they're taking the plea agreement away?

 

[ch33zw1z]

This nothing burger needs more sleaze

 

[JSt0rm]

manafort needs a shit covered shiv in prison. To die 2 weeks later from his painful wounds.

 

[jackstar7]

Guys, if they did nothing wrong, what are they pleading guilty to?

I'm so confounded by this.

 

[JSt0rm]

Guys, if they did nothing wrong, what are they pleading guilty to?

I'm so confounded by this.

the derp state.

 

[repoman0]

manafort needs a shit covered shiv in prison. To die 2 weeks later from his painful wounds.

Agreed. From what I’ve read, the guy sounds like even more of a POS than Dump. He has a lot of blood on his hands.

 

[Jhhnn]

Interesting does that mean they're taking the plea agreement away?

Manafort does not have a plea agreement that we know of. He's playing it the same way as Scooter Libby so far. So long as Trump is Prez he'll probably never go to prison.