Indian Prime Minister Against Raising Indian Flag in India!

[Raghu]

India didnt exist before 1947 either. It was just a bunch of princely states rules by the British. The idea of unified states (India/Pakistan) only came about due to the need for freedom against a common oppressor.

I wish the India union had adopted a EU-like organisational structure. The current state of the Indian union is without freedom and equality (2 of the most important factors for which the original freedom struggle was fought against British). Im hoping for another freedom struggle to get rid of the current system.

 

[The Green Bean]

India didnt exist before 1947 either. It was just a bunch of princely states rules by the British. The idea of unified states (India/Pakistan) only came about due to the need for freedom against a common oppressor.

I wish the India union had adopted a EU-like organisational structure. The current state of the Indian union is without freedom and equality (2 of the most important factors for which the original freedom struggle was fought against British). Im hoping for another freedom struggle to get rid of the current system.

I agree. But before the EU became what it is today there were many centuries of tyrants and corruption. India was the richest region in the world and we still have the potential. The problem however is that we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves.

I also believe that the concept of nationalism is detrimental to development. I'm sure if people were actually happy they would not care to cut off each other's throats. I think that India is using nationalism and patriotism against Pakistan to unify its people. However, it needs to tackle the root of the problem.

5 years ago, Indians wanted to embrace Pakistani people. Now, after constant poisoning by their media, they believe every Pakistani is a terrorist. I received a mass SMS originating from India (must've been send to me by mistake) that was an attempt at a chain, which said that don't accept call from x number because it a Pakistani trying to steal all your money. Fwd to all. Such is their hatred for us now.

 

[The Green Bean]

Except that statement can never be made. Remember, it was partition of INDIA, not Pakistan. Pakistan didn't exist before 1947. Sorry to burst your bubble. Of course, that's probably not what they teach you in Pakistan however the truth cannot be altered.

And, if you think modern India doesn't resemble pre-British India, well, LOL.. I guess you have seen only the Bollywood idiots and other vacuous representations of Indian "culture".

Of course, I'm from a very traditional Brahmin family. My definition of Indian culture is far-removed from that of so-called "modern" Indians who have no loyalty neither to their family nor to their country. And, do you realize that your ancestors were Indians (culturally) and Hindu/Buddhist (religiously) and were converted by force? What is it that makes you spit on your ancestors' memories? One of the debts we have to pay when we take birth is to our ancestors and their wellbeing. Of course, this is part of Indian culture so I'm sure you don't care two hoots about that. Yet, I don't think even Muslims would disrespect their ancestors so much. Must be a Pakistani conundrum eh?

No substance in what you have written. India didn't exist before 1947 except in name. If you don't understand what I'm trying to say then don't bother; you're an idiot.

And my ancestors were NOT converted by force. I have my whole lineage traced back and it's a fact that they converted by choice. Maybe your schools teach you all Muslims in India were converted forcefully under the sword.

You must truly be joking! No wait, you're Pakistani! There is plenty of poverty, illiteracy, and corruption in India. Yet, there is a lot of development, economic and otherwise, as well. How many billionaires does Pakistan have? How many Nobel Laureates? Of course, that is not a standard of measurement of progress per se, but for us Asians to get recognized by the incredibly racist Nobel committee is no small task. The separatist movements in India are ALL supported by Pakistan and China. Hence, the border "issues". The Chinese supply arms and funds through Nepal and Assam while Pakistan supports separatists in Kashmir.

So how exactly do those billionaires benefit the 80% living under $2 a day? That's the whole problem of India's economic boom. It has only benefited the rich. As far as development is concerned your satellite launch failed for a second time a few weeks ago.

http://viewstonews.com/index.php/second-failure-of-indian-satellite-rocket-gslv/technology

What about your military tech and countless missiles failing to launch? So what exactly is your progress technologically?

The Kashmiris have decided to be part of India. Only the Pakistanis pretending to be Kashmiris and their supporters like that terrorist Geelani want to join Pakistan. Sorry dude, 2% is actually too high of a number. And, even if Kashmir is given independence, what about Jammu? Ladakh? Since you're Pakistani, you must have some better sense of geography, no?

You really are an idiot. Where are you getting those 2% figures from? If your government is so sure people want to join India then why not hold a referendum? We will accept the results of a free-and-fair vote.

Which international court? The UN? LOL.. the UK already split India and now there are three countries. India will never let such a debacle happen again. Even the Indian Muslims know that!

That's the dumbest thing I have heard. What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[guyver01]

There has been many instances where it has been made illegal to fly the U.S. Flag here in the U.S. and more instances popping up everyday.

The soldier who was told to not fly the flag at his home.

The student told not to fly his flag on his bicycle are just recent examples.

LOL... subvert the truth much?

The soldier and the student were examples of overzealous local administrators (HOA official... and school security) overstepping their bounds. There was NO LAW that said they couldn't fly the flag.... stop calling stuff illegal if there's no law backing up your claim.

 

[busydude]

5 years ago, Indians wanted to embrace Pakistani people.

So.. the blame always falls back to India huh. So, who planted bombs in Mumbai trains? Who made coordinated attacks in Mumbai? Do you deny that these attacks were planned in Pakistan?

We will accept the results of a free-and-fair vote.

Indian administered Kashmir has been conducting elections.. like any other state in the country.

As far as development is concerned your satellite launch failed for a second time a few weeks ago.

So, how many satellites did Pakistan launch? You are so fucking naive..

 

[Baasha]

India didnt exist before 1947 either.

This is the typical canard that every anti-Indian uses to justify the creation of the failed state of Pakistan. India, that is Bharat, existed for thousands of years. Ever heard of Asoka the Great? He unified not only the princely states of ancient India (which included present-day Afghanistan & Pakistan), he sent emissaries all the way to Rome.

India, as defined in its constitution, was officially recognized in 1947 yet it keeps the name Bharat; which comes from the ancient king of India. It is highly dense to think that India "didn't exist before 1947".

Pakistan was created for the Muslims of India. Why the fuck were any Muslims allowed to stay back? Since they were allowed to stay back, vote, own land, and businesses, there is no need for Pakistan at all. Pakistan, a woefully pathetic experiment of a nation, has become a migraine for not only India, but for much of the world due to their obtuse ideology and fanatical base that support exporting terrorism.

 

[davmat787]

So how exactly do those billionaires benefit the 80% living under $2 a day? That's the whole problem of India's economic boom. It has only benefited the rich. As far as development is concerned your satellite launch failed for a second time a few weeks ago.

I thought India has a huge booming middle class, you know from outsourcing of US jobs, home grown tech companies, etc. Is this not the case?

 

[Baasha]

No substance in what you have written. India didn't exist before 1947 except in name. If you don't understand what I'm trying to say then don't bother; you're an idiot.

Reported for personal attack.

Still need to counter your nonsense. India existed for thousands of years. That's like saying Hindus weren't called Hindus before the Persians so they didn't exist before then! That is Pakistani (and pseudo-secularist) logic.

So according to you, since the US started with only a few states, the USA didn't exist until after all 50 states became part of the union? LOL.. Pakistani history is humorous.

And my ancestors were NOT converted by force. I have my whole lineage traced back and it's a fact that they converted by choice. Maybe your schools teach you all Muslims in India were converted forcefully under the sword.

You have your lineage traced back? LOL.. describe it then.

You are a half-wit to think your ancestors weren't converted by force. Wherever Islam and Christianity have gone, they have wrought havoc on the local populace. Look at Iran. What used to be a great Persian Empire of Zoroastrians was completely destroyed by marauding Muslims from Arabia in just 20 years! They (Muslims) couldn't find a foothold in India until the end of the twelfth century (Muhammad of Ghor and the Delhi Sultanate). Even then, the Mughals NEVER ruled all of India. They held a large swathe of the land and through the centuries, millions of native Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, and later, the Sikhs, were killed or converted. Make no mistake. Your ancestors were converted by force. No Muslim in the subcontinent has converted by choice except very recently (post-independent India) and that too to climb the social and economic ladder. This is the same case with the Christians starting with the British and then the Portugese terrorists who imposed the inquisition in Goa. The Christians now are engaging in a hidden war in India trying to convert the poor and illiterate tribals by using subterfuge and in some cases, like the NLFT, outright violence.

I bet you Pakistanis learnt tyrants like Shah Jahan and Aurangezeb were "peaceful" rulers! I suppose that makes sense for people who think the killer of an elected official (Salman Taseer) is a "hero".

Read History of Civilization and about the Islamic conquest of India. It makes the Holocaust seem like a street-fight.

So how exactly do those billionaires benefit the 80% living under $2 a day? That's the whole problem of India's economic boom. It has only benefited the rich. As far as development is concerned your satellite launch failed for a second time a few weeks ago.

Wherefrom do you get 80% of Indians living under $2 a day? It is convenient to use western propaganda when it's convenient for you isn't it?! The billionaires may not directly benefit everyone but they certainly stimulate the Indian economy by creating jobs and taking on colossal projects that keep the growth of the Indian economy at a steady click of 8-9% per annum.

Plus, any economic shift will only be apparent after long periods of time. It will of course benefit the elite right away but don't judge just by that. There are more than 300 million middle class Indians now who can afford cars and a decent place of residence. The middle class keeps growing at a very good pace and that is what the backbone of the Indian economy is; not the billionaires like Ambanis etc.

Comparing Pakistan and India on economic terms is beyond absurd. Even the most anti-Indian people know that.

What about your military tech and countless missiles failing to launch? So what exactly is your progress technologically?

Are you mad? Rhetorical question. Yes you are! DRDO and ISRO are at least building and launching satellites. What has Pakistan launched other than terrorists? And, India is only now beginning to see the fruits of meritocratic education and employment. It has been wrought with sixty plus years of "reservation systems" that kept brilliant people out of the best institutions and jobs. Thankfully, IIT hasn't fallen into that trap.

Indians world over are at the forefront of technological innovation whereas Pakistanis world over are at the forefront of terrorism (Shahzad?).

You really are an idiot. Where are you getting those 2% figures from? If your government is so sure people want to join India then why not hold a referendum? We will accept the results of a free-and-fair vote.

I have refrained from calling you names thus far. You have proven that you cannot debate civilly.

India will not hold a referendum with Kashmir because it is a state IN India. That is like asking if California wants to hold a vote to secede from the union. in 30 years, when there are more Latinos than whites in California, holding a referendum would be downright foolish. Likewise, terrorists in Kashmir have killed off thousands of Kashmiri Pandits or driven them away. Holding a referendum will simply hand Kashmir to Pakistan. You can't figure that out? Repatriate all the 400,000+ Kashmiri Pandits to the valley and then hold a referendum not just for Kashmir, but for the entire state of JAMMU & KASHMIR! That, every Indian will be willing to do. Yet, we know how probable that is.

First order for the Indian govt. is to repeal that idiotic Article 370 from the constitution and allow Indians to settle in Kashmir. That will drive out those treacherous terrorist vermin from Kashmir.

 

[Baasha]

The current state of the Indian union is without freedom and equality (2 of the most important factors for which the original freedom struggle was fought against British). Im hoping for another freedom struggle to get rid of the current system.

Without freedom and equality? Explain.. and what is this "current system" you speak of? Where the majority has no freedom of expression due to incredibly puerile vote-bank politics from the current govt.?

 

[busydude]

Baasha, its not worth it to argue with someone.. who cannot deal with the realities and lives in constant denial. He said, in an other thread, that he would be happy if Pak made a deal with Taliban.. he is incapable of thinking rationally.

 

[busydude]

I thought India has a huge booming middle class, you know from outsourcing of US jobs, home grown tech companies, etc. Is this not the case?

Yes, middle class is growing rapidly. Unfortunately, in the past two years, inflation has turned out to be a major PITA.

 

[RabidMongoose]

So how exactly do those billionaires benefit the 80% living under $2 a day? That's the whole problem of India's economic boom. It has only benefited the rich. As far as development is concerned your satellite launch failed for a second time a few weeks ago.

Indians here are usually incredibly nationalistic, but let's face it, your country of Pakistan is basically a failed state. India is on the up and becoming a world power and Pakistan is basically staying as a pathetic country and it'll remain that way as long as the people (and yourself) still believe in barbarism.

I mean, seriously, when you're talking about a failed satellite launch in response to development, you know you have a horrible argument.

It must suck to be Pakistani. Your country is on the brink of failure, lots of radicalism in the society including people like The Green Bean with his radical and extremist beliefs, and your country's biggest rival is on its way of becoming a world power.

 

[hal2kilo]

Better check his birth certificate.

 

[Raghu]

This is the typical canard that every anti-Indian uses to justify the creation of the failed state of Pakistan. India, that is Bharat, existed for thousands of years. Ever heard of Asoka the Great? He unified not only the princely states of ancient India (which included present-day Afghanistan & Pakistan), he sent emissaries all the way to Rome.

I dont get your point. How far back in history do you want to go? It didnt exist before Ashoka, so Ashokas unification doesnt count? Ashoka still didnt conquer what is currently India, and also conquered land outside current day India. And after Ashoka, geographical India did fall into several pieces again. The very fact that he had to conquer it through wars means that he was no different than the British. And do you want India to claim Afghanistan, SriLanka too?

India, as defined in its constitution, was officially recognized in 1947 yet it keeps the name Bharat; which comes from the ancient king of India. It is highly dense to think that India "didn't exist before 1947".

Some turd fuck king conquered the lands through war and gave his own name to his kingdom. Before Bharatha the land wasnt unified. He isnt any different from the British. Hence I refuse to accept your theory of unified India. India has been ruled by multiple kings for a greater period of history than under unified rule.

Pakistan was created for the Muslims of India. Why the fuck were any Muslims allowed to stay back? Since they were allowed to stay back, vote, own land, and businesses, there is no need for Pakistan at all. Pakistan, a woefully pathetic experiment of a nation, has become a migraine for not only India, but for much of the world due to their obtuse ideology and fanatical base that support exporting terrorism.

If Muslims werent allowed to stay back India, then India would have been no different from the religion-state of Pakistan. Im happy that India did not take such a step then.

Your ideas about the origin of the unified Indian state are wrong. Also, there exists no need for a unified Indian country now. That is why the current EU system is so nice.

Without freedom and equality? Explain.. and what is this "current system" you speak of? Where the majority has no freedom of expression due to incredibly puerile vote-bank politics from the current govt.?

The current system vests too much power in the central govt. which is abusing the freedom and equality of its citizens. It doesnt matter if its the minority or the majority, that is being suppressed/brainwashed. Everyone should be treated equally and given the freedom.

Yes, middle class is growing rapidly. Unfortunately, in the past two years, inflation has turned out to be a major PITA.

So true I got a 25% raise after the 2 years of recession (during which period I had to take a 5% pay cut) and still cant afford the same quality of life as earlier. When the inflation is 12-15% skipping even a year of hikes puts a big dent on quality of life.

 

[The Green Bean]

Reported for personal attack.

Still need to counter your nonsense. India existed for thousands of years. That's like saying Hindus weren't called Hindus before the Persians so they didn't exist before then! That is Pakistani (and pseudo-secularist) logic.

So according to you, since the US started with only a few states, the USA didn't exist until after all 50 states became part of the union? LOL.. Pakistani history is humorous.

The India that existed before 1947 was a separate entity that what it is today. Just because what you refer to as "India" or "Bharat" keeps the same name doesn't make it the same country. The official name for the country you are referring to is the "Republic of India" which was created in 1950. Officially "India" does not represent your state. I could argue that India means the entire subcontinent. Someone else could say India means the Indian ocean. India is the common name for your country, not the official name just like America is the common name for the USA. However, the USA doesn't claim to be 1000+ years old because of the Aztecs. The United States was declared on July 4, 1776. Before that, the USA did not exist just like before 1947/1950 the Republic of India did not exist.

You have your lineage traced back? LOL.. describe it then.

You are a half-wit to think your ancestors weren't converted by force. Wherever Islam and Christianity have gone, they have wrought havoc on the local populace. Look at Iran. What used to be a great Persian Empire of Zoroastrians was completely destroyed by marauding Muslims from Arabia in just 20 years! They (Muslims) couldn't find a foothold in India until the end of the twelfth century (Muhammad of Ghor and the Delhi Sultanate). Even then, the Mughals NEVER ruled all of India. They held a large swathe of the land and through the centuries, millions of native Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, and later, the Sikhs, were killed or converted. Make no mistake. Your ancestors were converted by force. No Muslim in the subcontinent has converted by choice except very recently (post-independent India) and that too to climb the social and economic ladder. This is the same case with the Christians starting with the British and then the Portugese terrorists who imposed the inquisition in Goa. The Christians now are engaging in a hidden war in India trying to convert the poor and illiterate tribals by using subterfuge and in some cases, like the NLFT, outright violence.

Maybe that's what your school history books brainwash you to believe. I know for a fact that my ancestors converted by choice. They were Brahmin leaders who converted roughly around 1100AD. I am not obliged to go into the details here.

I bet you Pakistanis learnt tyrants like Shah Jahan and Aurangezeb were "peaceful" rulers! I suppose that makes sense for people who think the killer of an elected official (Salman Taseer) is a "hero".

The Mughals may not have been the most peaceful rulers in "India" but during their years, India progressed.

Wherefrom do you get 80% of Indians living under $2 a day? It is convenient to use western propaganda when it's convenient for you isn't it?!

The World Bank thinks so anyways. It is impossible for me to verify their claims.

The billionaires may not directly benefit everyone but they certainly stimulate the Indian economy by creating jobs and taking on colossal projects that keep the growth of the Indian economy at a steady click of 8-9% per annum.

Plus, any economic shift will only be apparent after long periods of time. It will of course benefit the elite right away but don't judge just by that. There are more than 300 million middle class Indians now who can afford cars and a decent place of residence. The middle class keeps growing at a very good pace and that is what the backbone of the Indian economy is; not the billionaires like Ambanis etc.

I'm not an economist but your claim of 300 million Indian's that can afford cars is absurd. Technically, that would make India the biggest market for cars ahead of the USA. That is obviously not the case. I've been to India numerous times and the poverty there is much worse than what I see in Pakistan.

Comparing Pakistan and India on economic terms is beyond absurd. Even the most anti-Indian people know that.

Before the current recession, many analysts compared the Pakistani (which was growing at 7-8%) economy to India. Even today, Pakistani analysts talk about emulating the Indian economy. The Indian economy is much bigger but only because of its size. The per capita GDP is similar. On the other hand the Pakistani economy is projected to pick up to atleast 7-8% over the next two years.

Are you mad? Rhetorical question. Yes you are! DRDO and ISRO are at least building and launching satellites. What has Pakistan launched other than terrorists? And, India is only now beginning to see the fruits of meritocratic education and employment. It has been wrought with sixty plus years of "reservation systems" that kept brilliant people out of the best institutions and jobs. Thankfully, IIT hasn't fallen into that trap.

Indians world over are at the forefront of technological innovation whereas Pakistanis world over are at the forefront of terrorism (Shahzad?).

So what is this Indian "technological innovation." I'm yet to use anything remotely technical which says made in India or designed in India... As I said before, I've visited India many times and in many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is better. Eg: Your railways are better. Our road systems are better. And our weapons are better.

Abroad, Indians and Pakistanis are usually looked upon as the same people. In the UK for example, a "beloved patriot" is a racial slur against people of Indian origin. When most people say Indian people they refer to a race and geographic region and NOT a state.

India will not hold a referendum with Kashmir because it is a state IN India. That is like asking if California wants to hold a vote to secede from the union. in 30 years, when there are more Latinos than whites in California, holding a referendum would be downright foolish. Likewise, terrorists in Kashmir have killed off thousands of Kashmiri Pandits or driven them away. Holding a referendum will simply hand Kashmir to Pakistan. You can't figure that out? Repatriate all the 400,000+ Kashmiri Pandits to the valley and then hold a referendum not just for Kashmir, but for the entire state of JAMMU & KASHMIR! That, every Indian will be willing to do. Yet, we know how probable that is.

First order for the Indian govt. is to repeal that idiotic Article 370 from the constitution and allow Indians to settle in Kashmir. That will drive out those treacherous terrorist vermin from Kashmir.

Kashmir is a state IN Pakistan as well. It is a disputed territory. California is not. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

But if only 2% of the people in Kashmir support joining Pakistan and yet you think a referendum "will simply hand Kashmir to Pakistan" , does that mean that only 2% will vote or that you are stupid?

Also, give me proof that 1000s of pundits are being killed. Your Hindu police torturing and humiliating the population always makes the news...

 

[The Green Bean]

Baasha, its not worth it to argue with someone.. who cannot deal with the realities and lives in constant denial. He said, in an other thread, that he would be happy if Pak made a deal with Taliban.. he is incapable of thinking rationally.

It's okay for the USA to make deals with the Taliban but if Pakistan does it they are terrorists. :roll;

edit: bah! the old emotions don't work.

 

[busydude]

The World Bank thinks so anyways. It is impossible for me to verify their claims.

According to world bank it was about 42% in 2005.. and decreasing.

http://www.worldbank.org.in/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/SOUTHASIAEXT/INDIAEXTN/0,,contentMDK:21880725~pagePK:141137~piPK:141127~theSitePK:295584,00.html

 

[The Green Bean]

According to world bank it was about 42% in 2005.. and decreasing.

http://www.worldbank.org.in/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/SOUTHASIAEXT/INDIAEXTN/0,,contentMDK:21880725~pagePK:141137~piPK:141127~theSitePK:295584,00.html

Those are rates for $1.25 at PPP.

 

[busydude]

Those are rates for $1.25 at PPP.

A person earning higher than $1.25 a day is not poor according to world bank.

 

[The Green Bean]

A person earning higher than $1.25 a day is not poor according to world bank.

According to me, anyone living under $2 a day is poor.

 

[Baasha]

Baasha, its not worth it to argue with someone.. who cannot deal with the realities and lives in constant denial. He said, in an other thread, that he would be happy if Pak made a deal with Taliban.. he is incapable of thinking rationally.

agreed... I created this thread about the Indian flag raising issue that flared up after this year's Republic Day and this Green Bean barged in with his "India is a 'sham' democracy" diatribe. If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.

 

[busydude]

According to me, anyone living under $2 a day is poor.

To you, Pakistan is the greatest country on the face of this planet.

 

[Baasha]

I dont get your point. How far back in history do you want to go? It didnt exist before Ashoka, so Ashokas unification doesnt count? Ashoka still didnt conquer what is currently India, and also conquered land outside current day India. And after Ashoka, geographical India did fall into several pieces again. The very fact that he had to conquer it through wars means that he was no different than the British. And do you want India to claim Afghanistan, SriLanka too?

We can go as far back as needed to prove that Bharatvarsha or Aryavarta, that is ancient India, is India. Of course, that included all those countries like Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, etc. etc. I am not saying we should reclaim that land. At least, not now. However, to say that India didn't exist before the partition is just dumb. The people living on the other side of the Sindh (Indus) formed a collective nation called India.

Ashoka "conquered" India like the British? Boy do you have your facts twisted. Ashoka didn't plunder and pillage the people of India like the rat-British did. Ashoka didn't commit pogroms and planned famines that killed off millions of Indians like the British did. Remember, it was a Britisher, HG Wells, who said, "In the history of the world there have been thousands of kings and emperors who called themselves 'their highnesses,' 'their majesties,' and 'their exalted majesties' and so on. They shone for a brief moment, and as quickly disappeared. But Ashoka shines and shines brightly like a bright star, even unto this day."

Regardless of that, there is no doubt that the kings of ancient India were constantly warring with each other. That is a well-known fact. However, to say that each was a "nation" in and of itself is idiotic. No kingdom in India identified with outsiders. They were separate kingdoms but were all collectively under one umbrella; Bharatvarsha.

Some turd fuck king conquered the lands through war and gave his own name to his kingdom. Before Bharatha the land wasnt unified. He isnt any different from the British. Hence I refuse to accept your theory of unified India. India has been ruled by multiple kings for a greater period of history than under unified rule.

How else do you "conquer" lands? Through tea and biscuits? Bharatvarsha can be traced much farther back than Bharata. I never said India was not ruled by many kings in their own kingdoms. However, the collective conscience of the kingdoms fell under one umbrella; that is Bharat.

An analogy is Takshashila; the oldest center of learning in the world. Modern "historians", actually, idiots, say that Takshashila doesn't "qualify" as a university because it didn't have room for pupils to stay on "campus"! Likewise, saying that India didn't have an official "republic" before doesn't mean India, as a unified region that extends FAR beyond present day India, didn't exist is just utterly false and disingenuous.

Btw, are you Indian?

If Muslims werent allowed to stay back India, then India would have been no different from the religion-state of Pakistan. Im happy that India did not take such a step then.

What an idiotic statement! Muslims of India wanted a separate nation. They got it. What about the Hindus of India? They too are a nation! Isn't a "democracy" supposed to be the will of the people? You think Nehru and Gandhi had the will of Hindus in mind when they formed the "socialist, democratic republic" of India? And, my point was that since Muslims were allowed to be citizens of India, there was no need for partition at all. Hence, Pakistan and Bangladesh should be reclaimed.

Your ideas about the origin of the unified Indian state are wrong. Also, there exists no need for a unified Indian country now. That is why the current EU system is so nice.

You must truly be mad or communist. India more than ever needs to be unified. In fact, the states should NOT have been formed based on language. It already created such a rift between jingoistic idiots within India. The current EU system will never work in India.

The current system vests too much power in the central govt. which is abusing the freedom and equality of its citizens. It doesnt matter if its the minority or the majority, that is being suppressed/brainwashed. Everyone should be treated equally and given the freedom.

Where should the power be vested in then? The Central Govt. should have more powers because they can't even solve the water issues of unifying the rivers and building dams that would support collective growth. Instead, that power is vested with the state govt. and that has been an area of severe contention since independence. How is the central govt. "abusing the freedom and equality of its citizens"? Site examples! It is abusing the majority for vote-bank politics and allowing half-breeds (like Rahul gandu) to dictate terms to the Indian people.

I do agree with you that everyone needs to be treated equally and given freedom. However, remember, there is no freedom without responsibility and eternal vigilance is the price of all liberty!

 

[Baasha]

The India that existed before 1947 was a separate entity that what it is today. Just because what you refer to as "India" or "Bharat" keeps the same name doesn't make it the same country. The official name for the country you are referring to is the "Republic of India" which was created in 1950. Officially "India" does not represent your state. I could argue that India means the entire subcontinent. Someone else could say India means the Indian ocean. India is the common name for your country, not the official name just like America is the common name for the USA. However, the USA doesn't claim to be 1000+ years old because of the Aztecs. The United States was declared on July 4, 1776. Before that, the USA did not exist just like before 1947/1950 the Republic of India did not exist.

The Republic of India, by that name, did not exist prior to 1947. However, the nation-state of Bharat, or Bharatvarsha (Aryavarta) has been there for thousands of years.

Read up on it and stop harping the same gibberish over and over.

Maybe that's what your school history books brainwash you to believe. I know for a fact that my ancestors converted by choice. They were Brahmin leaders who converted roughly around 1100AD. I am not obliged to go into the details here.

Except I grew up in the US and researched Indian history independently. And, Indian history books are notoriously anti-Hindu as they gloss over the atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists since the time of Muhammad bin Qasim in 712CE! They give Chattrapathi Shivaji a glance and spend 3/4 of the book on Mughal "progress". Right.. killing 80 million Hindus over a millenium, destroying innumerable number of temples, centers of learning (Nalanda & Takshashila are the famous ones), and entire kingdoms laid waste to. What about Somnath and Vijayanagara?

Your ancestors did NOT convert by choice. Perhaps, if they were given positions in the court of the mughals in exchange for converting to Islam, may be. Even then, it is conversion through coercion as the conversion is not of one's own volition but through enticements etc. Most present day Muslims in the sub-continent were converted by force and/or under duress. Of that, there is no doubt. And, I highly doubt your ancestors were Brahmin; what was their gotra?

The Mughals may not have been the most peaceful rulers in "India" but during their years, India progressed.

I wonder what your definition of "progress" is.

Is destroying thousands of temples, killing millions of Hindus, decimating entire subcultures progress? Is building mosques on top of destroyed temples progress? Is looting and slavery progress? Remember, when Nalanda was completely destroyed by Khilji and the ink from the thousands of manuscripts thrown in the river caused the river to turn black for six months! Such is the progress of Islamic invaders of India!

And, India fell into the dark-ages since 712CE. Ever since Muhammad bin Qasim, with the help of treacherous Hindus, got a foothold in Sindh, India has faced a rapid decline and was then compounded by the rat-bastard British. It is quite hilarious that India is now called a "poor" country when it was the richest in the world till the 18th Century! Even that rapist-murderer Columbus was looking for India!

I'm not an economist but your claim of 300 million Indian's that can afford cars is absurd. Technically, that would make India the biggest market for cars ahead of the USA. That is obviously not the case. I've been to India numerous times and the poverty there is much worse than what I see in Pakistan.

India's middle class is 300 million and growing at over 5% per year: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/425/india-middle-class.html

Dude, 1.2 billion people live on a land mass that is 1/3 the size of the US! WTF do you expect? Everyone to be millionaires? There is a lot of poverty and no Indian would deny it! However, India is growing at a phenomenal pace and the middle class, the backbone of any economy, is showing strong growth as well!

Before the current recession, many analysts compared the Pakistani (which was growing at 7-8%) economy to India. Even today, Pakistani analysts talk about emulating the Indian economy. The Indian economy is much bigger but only because of its size. The per capita GDP is similar. On the other hand the Pakistani economy is projected to pick up to atleast 7-8% over the next two years.

Are you seriously trying to compare India and Pakistan economically? And, according to you, if 80% of Indians are living under $2 a day, its size as a significant factor in its economic growth is moot! Hence, you've proven yourself wrong, again.

So what is this Indian "technological innovation." I'm yet to use anything remotely technical which says made in India or designed in India... As I said before, I've visited India many times and in many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is better. Eg: Your railways are better. Our road systems are better. And our weapons are better.

hahahahahhaha... cool story bro! You get your shit from China! Chinese made garbage pales in comparison to India's arsenal. And, some have said Pakistan has more nukes, but so what? You wouldn't dare use it or else Pakistan won't exist.

And, as I said, in manufacturing, India has a lot of catching up to do, with Germany and Japan! Not China and Pakistan! India is at the forefront of R&D and innovation and is growing every year. I agree infrastructure in India sucks but that is in no way tied to its people. Its rotten governance, corruption, and useless legislation keeps India from growing much faster than it already is. That is why so many NRIs are returning to India to ride the wave of progress in the next few decades!

Abroad, Indians and Pakistanis are usually looked upon as the same people. In the UK for example, a "beloved patriot" is a racial slur against people of Indian origin. When most people say Indian people they refer to a race and geographic region and NOT a state.

Agreed. And, if we can get along outside of the sub-continent, why not at home as well? I have Pakistani friends and we get along great as long as we don't discuss religion and Kashmir! LOL....

Also, give me proof that 1000s of pundits are being killed. Your Hindu police torturing and humiliating the population always makes the news...

Proof: http://www.kashmiri-pandit.org/sundry/genocide.html

http://www.kashmir-information.com/Kilam/

and some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Pandit

Are you seriously denying that the Pandits were terrorized, murdered, raped, and forced to flee from their homeland? The really sad fact is the deafening silence from the media, both Indian and international, about the human-rights violations against the Pandits.

 

[davmat787]

As a US citizen, it would be great to buy a lot of the manufactured consumer type goods with a made in India sticker, rather than made in China. Do you guys see any chance of India becoming a manufacturing power in 10-15 years? The labor is certainly available, and I assume an increasing manufacturing sector in India would be beneficial to the lower and middle classes in India as well.