Indian Prime Minister Against Raising Indian Flag in India!

[reallyscrued]

In fact, the states should NOT have been formed based on language. It already created such a rift between jingoistic idiots within India. The current EU system will never work in India.

The current EU system will never work in India as long as there are people like you who claim it will not work. I'm willing to bet if it were seriously tried, it would actually please you to see it fail.

There is no reason why such a system cannot be implemented successfully in India. It astounds me you have so much pride in your country, yet refer to its citizens as jingoistic idiots. Do you not see the irony here?


India is unbelievably full of itself, and on top of that, each sect in any shape or form, religion or tribe or lineage, Muslim or Hindu or Jain or Buddhist, Gujarati or Panjabi or Marathi, are completely full of themselves as well. Even united, India will never be united. Their skulls are too thick and their pride is too deep.

You know what my hopes are? Just as the old farts that are in Congress will die off in a few decades and be replaced with people born in my time, my era, so will the inhumane and archaic thinkers of the Indian subcontinent.

You know what the EU's motto is? United in diversity. I don't think Desi's can collectively even begin to comprehend that.

 

[The Green Bean]

The Republic of India, by that name, did not exist prior to 1947. However, the nation-state of Bharat, or Bharatvarsha (Aryavarta) has been there for thousands of years.

Read up on it and stop harping the same gibberish over and over.

Exactly. According to your logic Pakistan existed 1000 of years ago too. Why is only the republic of India that nation state? Modern-day Pakistan was also part of that India which split up into distinct entities and none of them is more or less like that nation-state. Why are you finding it so difficult to understand this concept? Or do you NOT want to understand.

Except I grew up in the US and researched Indian history independently. And, Indian history books are notoriously anti-Hindu as they gloss over the atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists since the time of Muhammad bin Qasim in 712CE! They give Chattrapathi Shivaji a glance and spend 3/4 of the book on Mughal "progress". Right.. killing 80 million Hindus over a millenium, destroying innumerable number of temples, centers of learning (Nalanda & Takshashila are the famous ones), and entire kingdoms laid waste to. What about Somnath and Vijayanagara?

History is never written without bias. Whatever version of history you are reading is biased in one way or the other.

Your ancestors did NOT convert by choice. Perhaps, if they were given positions in the court of the mughals in exchange for converting to Islam, may be. Even then, it is conversion through coercion as the conversion is not of one's own volition but through enticements etc. Most present day Muslims in the sub-continent were converted by force and/or under duress. Of that, there is no doubt. And, I highly doubt your ancestors were Brahmin; what was their gotra?

If you want to continue to believe in your fantasies that all Muslims were converted by force you may do so. I KNOW for a fact that my ancestors were Brahmin and that they converted by choice. They were local kings. I'm not an expert on Hindu mythology so I didn't even know what gotra meant. You can keep doubting but that will not change history.

I wonder what your definition of "progress" is.

Is destroying thousands of temples, killing millions of Hindus, decimating entire subcultures progress? Is building mosques on top of destroyed temples progress? Is looting and slavery progress? Remember, when Nalanda was completely destroyed by Khilji and the ink from the thousands of manuscripts thrown in the river caused the river to turn black for six months! Such is the progress of Islamic invaders of India!

And, India fell into the dark-ages since 712CE. Ever since Muhammad bin Qasim, with the help of treacherous Hindus, got a foothold in Sindh, India has faced a rapid decline and was then compounded by the rat-bastard British. It is quite hilarious that India is now called a "poor" country when it was the richest in the world till the 18th Century! Even that rapist-murderer Columbus was looking for India!

So which books are you reading your history from...?

India's middle class is 300 million and growing at over 5% per year: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/425/india-middle-class.html

Dude, 1.2 billion people live on a land mass that is 1/3 the size of the US! WTF do you expect? Everyone to be millionaires? There is a lot of poverty and no Indian would deny it! However, India is growing at a phenomenal pace and the middle class, the backbone of any economy, is showing strong growth as well!

A middle class person in India is a lot poorer than a middle class person in the USA. You assumed that every middle class person anywhere in the world can afford cars and you realized you were wrong. When the poor class earns $2 a day (and that would be stretching it as almost 80% live under that) which turns out to be $730 a year and according to you 30% of India is middle class, to qualify for "middle class" one must earn only about $3-4 a day. Perhaps every taxi driver belongs to the middle class? Because considering the rest of India, including the untouchable caste, they are insanely rich!

Are you seriously trying to compare India and Pakistan economically? And, according to you, if 80% of Indians are living under $2 a day, its size as a significant factor in its economic growth is moot! Hence, you've proven yourself wrong, again.

Yes I am comparing the two economies. I haven't denied India has a significantly larger economy because of its size but for the common man size doesn't matter. Size is NOT a significant factor in growth, it's a significant factor in statistics. Hence, you've proven you are stupid.

hahahahahhaha... cool story bro! You get your shit from China! Chinese made garbage pales in comparison to India's arsenal. And, some have said Pakistan has more nukes, but so what? You wouldn't dare use it or else Pakistan won't exist.

And, as I said, in manufacturing, India has a lot of catching up to do, with Germany and Japan! Not China and Pakistan! India is at the forefront of R&D and innovation and is growing every year. I agree infrastructure in India sucks but that is in no way tied to its people. Its rotten governance, corruption, and useless legislation keeps India from growing much faster than it already is. That is why so many NRIs are returning to India to ride the wave of progress in the next few decades!

China is way ahead of India. It'll take India atleast 50 years to get where China is today... If Pakistan used nukes, India wouldn't exist either. Everyone knows that Pakistani weaponry is better than Indian weaponry. We manufacture most of our arsenal ourselves; we import from China/USA but the bulk is made in Pakistan.

Agreed. And, if we can get along outside of the sub-continent, why not at home as well? I have Pakistani friends and we get along great as long as we don't discuss religion and Kashmir! LOL....

The problem is on both sides of the border. However, there is no chance of getting along unless your media stops its anti-Pakistan propaganda. Almost every Indian hates Pakistan because they think that the Pakistani people are responsible for every evil that happens in India. Our media is more mature in this regard. They respect India and sometimes even look up to it.

I think the root of the problem is that India keeps blaming everything on us. You have many problems and blaming Pakistan is the easy way out. It keeps the public's minds from noticing the government's own shortcomings. Did anyone investigate why the Mumbai police are still using pre-WW2 weapons? If they were prepared like they should have been, the incident would not have been this ugly. Instead: All Pakistanis are evil. They are all responsible. Pakistan used to do the same. The used to blame everything on India. However, they have realized that their real problems are from within and they are striving to deal with them. On behalf of the Pakistan people: we welcome you with open arms.

What I find ridiculous is India's visa policy. They are not granting visas to Pakistanis for the world cup. Why? Because they are all terrorists. They are not granting visas to Americans who were born in Pakistan. They are not giving visas to anyone with a Pakistani wife. Rising to the world stage? My ass! They are acting like babies.

Proof: http://www.kashmiri-pandit.org/sundry/genocide.html

http://www.kashmir-information.com/Kilam/

and some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Pandit

Are you seriously denying that the Pandits were terrorized, murdered, raped, and forced to flee from their homeland? The really sad fact is the deafening silence from the media, both Indian and international, about the human-rights violations against the Pandits.

Point me to "1000s killed"

 

[Raghu]

Ashoka "conquered" India like the British? Boy do you have your facts twisted. Ashoka didn't plunder and pillage the people of India like the rat-British did. Ashoka didn't commit pogroms and planned famines that killed off millions of Indians like the British did.

So, he didnt kill people during his wars? His victory was celebrated with joy in the kingdoms he conquered? :S

One more cruel than the other - maybe. One different from the other - NOT.

Regardless of that, there is no doubt that the kings of ancient India were constantly warring with each other. That is a well-known fact. However, to say that each was a "nation" in and of itself is idiotic. No kingdom in India identified with outsiders. They were separate kingdoms but were all collectively under one umbrella; Bharatvarsha.

The very fact that they were always at war meant that they didnt associate with each other. If they felt as being part of the same nation they wouldnt have been at war.

How else do you "conquer" lands? Through tea and biscuits? Bharatvarsha can be traced much farther back than Bharata. I never said India was not ruled by many kings in their own kingdoms. However, the collective conscience of the kingdoms fell under one umbrella; that is Bharat.

Your stupid fucking imaginary umbrella again. If they were ruled by different kings, they were different nations. Just like areas ruled by different govts. are different nations.

An analogy is Takshashila; the oldest center of learning in the world. Modern "historians", actually, idiots, say that Takshashila doesn't "qualify" as a university because it didn't have room for pupils to stay on "campus"! Likewise, saying that India didn't have an official "republic" before doesn't mean India, as a unified region that extends FAR beyond present day India, didn't exist is just utterly false and disingenuous.

Again pointless bantering. Taxila was a university because it was a center of learning. Has no correlation to your other statements though. India wasnt unified, except for brief periods of unification by brutal wars.

Its like saying that the British unified the world (or at least all the land they conquered). Different countries were warring against each other. But since the British were able to conquer them at some point in the past, they are all now suddenly unified?

What an idiotic statement! Muslims of India wanted a separate nation. They got it. What about the Hindus of India? They too are a nation! Isn't a "democracy" supposed to be the will of the people? You think Nehru and Gandhi had the will of Hindus in mind when they formed the "socialist, democratic republic" of India? And, my point was that since Muslims were allowed to be citizens of India, there was no need for partition at all. Hence, Pakistan and Bangladesh should be reclaimed.

Your logic is wrong. Hindus of India arent a nation. Muslims were allowed to be citizens of India, but some didnt want to be part of a secular nation. These people formed a Muslim religion-state called Pakistan. People who wanted to be a part of a secular state came to/stayed in India.

You must truly be mad or communist. India more than ever needs to be unified. In fact, the states should NOT have been formed based on language. It already created such a rift between jingoistic idiots within India. The current EU system will never work in India.

Formation of states on the basis of language was amongst the nicer things young India did. Im happy it wasnt any other arbitrary way, which would have been a good way of decimating all lingual diversity in the name of national unity.

Where should the power be vested in then? The Central Govt. should have more powers because they can't even solve the water issues of unifying the rivers and building dams that would support collective growth. Instead, that power is vested with the state govt. and that has been an area of severe contention since independence. How is the central govt. "abusing the freedom and equality of its citizens"? Cite examples! It is abusing the majority for vote-bank politics and allowing half-breeds (like Rahul gandu) to dictate terms to the Indian people.

Cooperation among states is important, neednt be part of the same country to achieve that. Thats why the EU is good. Countries cooperate well, for instance to build common transport networks, while still taking care of their own good. Are there conflicts? - Yes. But there is never exploitation.

Being a part of the same country has only allowed one part to exploit the other. Why is it that the mineral/resource rich regions are also the poorest in India? Why is it that one region has to give up its resources without enjoying any of the benefit? Thats called exploitation, just that in this case its in the name of "national unity".

If you ask for examples as to how the govt discriminates

Indian Govt. gives a subsidy to Amarnath and Mecca pilgrims. My religions HQ is in Florida. Why am I not being given a subsidy to go to FL? Because Im a minority. I dont want my tax dollars subsidising some buttholes religious tours. Secular my ass.

The govt. doesnt have a common civil law. Hindus are covered by special laws, not applicable for other religions. The Govt. isnt making any move towards being truly secular either.

Even worse is the caste/religion based reservation. Why cant I convert castes, if Im allowed to convert religions?

The fucking retarded Govt. makes it particularly easy for people speaking a certain language to flourish in the country. Lucrative govt. jobs, like the IAS entrance exams for instance, is conducted in Hindhi, but not in the other official languages, giving unfair advantage to native Hindhi speakers like me. Why arent name boards written in all the languages as you travel by trains across the country? Im being given undue comfort just because my native language is Hindhi.

The central govt. also doesnt allow people to speak in their native language in the Parliament, unless of course it is <wait for it> Hindhi! Keep away 40% of the representatives from expressing their views in their native language and not allowing translators to be used in the Parliament. Thats fucking bull shit.

The division of states on the basis of language was a good move to provide some balance. This is also the exact reason states need to have more power.

This is no different from the apartheid regime denying opportunities to blacks, just that the discrimination here is based on the native language rather than skin colour. The central govt. always sees people speaking other languages as the bastard children - making it painful for them at every possible opportunity to work/travel outside their own state or to utilise any of the development work of the central govt. About 40% of the population is forced to learn a non-native language because of this. This does make them much smarter as they work harder to learn the extra language and hence arent as mentally retarded like most Hindhi speakers, like me.

Democracy offers no recourse in such a situation where the majority is the benefactor at the cost of the minority. Democracy is fair only when there is freedom and equality. Else the minority will always be exploited and treated as lesser citizens, all the while being brainwashed into believing that their country offers equality and secularism. The minority will make all the sacrifices in the name of being a united country, even as they are being systematically cleansed out of the system.

The people, its freedom and equality, are more important than the country itself. The moment a country asks its people (even if they are a minority) to trade in their equality/freedom for the larger "good" that country no longer deserves to exist. Fuck the country, save the people.

Ofcourse the EU-like system solves the issue by splitting the country. Ensuring equality and freedom within their own country is a much easier task. Smaller countries are also easier to govern. Smaller democracies are also fairer.

You know what the EU's motto is? United in diversity. I don't think Desi's can collectively even begin to comprehend that.

I agree. Most Indians have a distorted view of the nation, just like Baasha, often much worse.

The basis of the Indian nation is - Unity in diversity. It is not - Unity by supporting the majority to culturally and linguistically conquer the significant minority, while plundering regions under the guise of greater good of the nation.

@reallyscrued, Are you a girl by any chance?

 

[Karl Agathon]

I'm assuming the good people of india have long range nuclear missles aimed at many Chinese cities. That would certainly give belligerent Red China a moment of pause before they tried anything.

 

[busydude]

Just like any other nation on this world, there are a lot of things that are wrong with India. Do I think India could be better than it was now? Absolutely, but that goes for just about any other country on this planet.

One thing that India's are good at; is living in the past. It was one of the richest country pre industrial revolution, but what about now? It had a lot of great heritage that was envied by the rest of the world.. what is wrong with how India has turned up to be? It could turn out to be even worse.

Why is corruption ingrained into our system? There are a lot of questions one can ask, but the answers are no where to be found. Who has to be blamed for the corruption that has been plaguing the nation? The common people who give bribes.. or the officials who accept them.

As good as the idea of EU style of governance may sound, India has not significantly amended its constitution since independence.. how can one expect such a drastic change coming from the usually sloppy government?

I really don't get when people flash the "we are the victims because.. we belong to a minority".. come to think of think of it.. every common man in India is put in a position where he feels like a minority at least once in a life time.

 

[DesiPower]

...than nothing is.

I saw what you did there :biggrin:

 

[WelshBloke]

Indians here are usually incredibly nationalistic, but let's face it, your country of Pakistan is basically a failed state. India is on the up and becoming a world power and Pakistan is basically staying as a pathetic country and it'll remain that way as long as the people (and yourself) still believe in barbarism.

I mean, seriously, when you're talking about a failed satellite launch in response to development, you know you have a horrible argument.

It must suck to be Pakistani. Your country is on the brink of failure, lots of radicalism in the society including people like The Green Bean with his radical and extremist beliefs, and your country's biggest rival is on its way of becoming a world power.

Yeah lucky the British Empire stepped in otherwise all of India would still be under Islamic rule and it would just be one big Pakistan right now.





:whiste:

 

[busydude]

Yeah lucky the British Empire stepped in otherwise all of India would still be under Islamic rule and it would just be one big Pakistan right now.

Do you realize that India was ruled by Mughal's before Colonists arrived? The British did not unify India directly(They were proponents of divide and rule), all the people collectively rallied against the British to over throw them.

If you ask me.. I feel lucky, as an Indian, that pak is not part of India. We already have a lot of mess to take care of.


P.S: How was the Chicken Tikka Masala?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Yeah lucky the British Empire stepped in otherwise all of India would still be under Islamic rule and it would just be one big Pakistan right now.

:whiste:

All the British did was rape and murder the entire world about 100 times over.

Looks like we have yet another genocide apologist. It's actually very typical of British people who like to glorify their former Empire days since they have now become a relatively insignificant nation. Funny thing is now even more of their former colonies are more important on the global stage than the UK can ever hope to be again.

 

[WelshBloke]

All the British did was rape and murder the entire world about 100 times over...

What all of it!!!

100 times!!!

God, we are so awesome :awe:

 

[CanOWorms]

What all of it!!!

100 times!!!

God, we are so awesome :awe:

They would probably like to try more than just the Earth 100x over, which is why they should probably be barred from space exploration.

 

[WelshBloke]

They would probably like to try more than just the Earth 100x over, which is why they should probably be barred from space exploration.

Aww come on.

Raping everyone on the Earth, then killing them, then bringing them back to life...

And then doing it all over again another 99 times.

Thats pretty fucking awesome.

 

[Baasha]

The current EU system will never work in India as long as there are people like you who claim it will not work. I'm willing to bet if it were seriously tried, it would actually please you to see it fail.

There is no reason why such a system cannot be implemented successfully in India. It astounds me you have so much pride in your country, yet refer to its citizens as jingoistic idiots. Do you not see the irony here?

The people of India are united under one nation. 1/3rd of the land was robbed from India in 1947 and should be repatriated (the land only).

Allowing several nation-states to form will simply see to the fact that China takes over many of the north-eastern Indian states as they invaded and occupied Tibet.

You know what my hopes are? Just as the old farts that are in Congress will die off in a few decades and be replaced with people born in my time, my era, so will the inhumane and archaic thinkers of the Indian subcontinent.

It is those "archaic" thinkers like Rajaji, Sardar Patel, and others who saved India. The "modern" shit-for-brains sell-outs like Rahul Gandhi will see to it that India is ruined from within. Of course, Varun Gandhi shows hope however he is too inexperienced. Narendra Modi is the only viable option for Indians. Too bad the pseudo-secularist, christian, and muslim fanatics have engaged in an almost-decade long slander against him. India needs an iron-fisted PM who can unite the nation, not break it apart like some idiots on this thread are suggesting.

You know what the EU's motto is? United in diversity. I don't think Desi's can collectively even begin to comprehend that.

The EU, among many western nations, say a lot of things. India is the home of the ultimate diversity. People from all backgrounds have flourished in India and continue to do so. If you think the nation-states can survive independently, well, there is no point in discussion at all.

 

[Baasha]

Exactly. According to your logic Pakistan existed 1000 of years ago too. Why is only the republic of India that nation state? Modern-day Pakistan was also part of that India which split up into distinct entities and none of them is more or less like that nation-state. Why are you finding it so difficult to understand this concept? Or do you NOT want to understand.

Pakistan didn't exist before 1947. I don't think you'll get that even if it was branded on your forehead! India has existed for thousands of years. People have traveled the entire breadth of India for centuries without thinking they are entering a 'new country'.

History is never written without bias. Whatever version of history you are reading is biased in one way or the other.

LOL! Pakistani talking about bias! That's fresh!

If you want to continue to believe in your fantasies that all Muslims were converted by force you may do so. I KNOW for a fact that my ancestors were Brahmin and that they converted by choice. They were local kings. I'm not an expert on Hindu mythology so I didn't even know what gotra meant. You can keep doubting but that will not change history.

Muslims converted the native Hindus/Jains/Buddhists of India by force and subterfuge; coercion nonetheless. Whatever fairy-tales they tell you in your mardrassas don't hold water. Furthermore, Brahmins never converted to that desert cult anyway. All who converted to Islam and Christianity, were and are untouchables. Even today, all the missionary scum in India who are engaging in conversion target these people. So, I call pure BS on your claim.

Read Story of Civilization and Our Oriental Heritage by Will Durant for starters.

A middle class person in India is a lot poorer than a middle class person in the USA.

When did I say the middle class person in India is richer than one in the USA? Way to extrapolate my statements and convolute them! However, it is almost guaranteed that all middle class Indians are richer than "middle class" Pakistanis.

Plus, I gave you proof that India's middle class is growing strongly and it is about 300 million strong today. You are too dense to check the source and instead go off on some tangent!

Yes I am comparing the two economies. I haven't denied India has a significantly larger economy because of its size but for the common man size doesn't matter. Size is NOT a significant factor in growth, it's a significant factor in statistics. Hence, you've proven you are stupid.

You are unequivocally retarded. I pointed out the fact that since you said 80% of Indians are "poor", the size of its economy doesn't depend on them but rather the 20% who earn more than $2 a day. Even if those "facts" were true, India's economy trounces Pakistan's so comparing the two is just unimaginably dumb, err, I mean, Pakistani.

China is way ahead of India. It'll take India atleast 50 years to get where China is today...

Proof for your blithering statements yet again? China is a communist country and its economy is indeed much bigger than India's. Yet, India and China, are competing on many different levels. The same cannot be said about Pakistan and India. There is no comparison to begin with.

If Pakistan used nukes, India wouldn't exist either. Everyone knows that Pakistani weaponry is better than Indian weaponry. We manufacture most of our arsenal ourselves; we import from China/USA but the bulk is made in Pakistan.

Bullshit! India would not only exist, only major cities would be destroyed. More than 70% of Indians live in rural areas. Pakistan on the other hand, well, the only thing India would have to worry about is radiation fallout. And, you guys buy, I mean, beg, for shit from China and the US.

The problem is on both sides of the border. However, there is no chance of getting along unless your media stops its anti-Pakistan propaganda. Almost every Indian hates Pakistan because they think that the Pakistani people are responsible for every evil that happens in India. Our media is more mature in this regard. They respect India and sometimes even look up to it.

Such bullshit is hard to come by. Leave it to a Pakistani to cook it up! What the fuck is wrong with you? Indian media, that is, English speaking ones, are ALL pro-Pakistan and anti-Indian! Every time Afridi takes a dump, it's front page news in Times of India. Indian-American wins Nobel prize in Chemistry, you have to look for it in some sub-section. The Indian media is funded by anti-Hindus, mostly Christians and communists from abroad and Muslims from Saudi Arabia. Don't be such a troll.

I think the root of the problem is that India keeps blaming everything on us. You have many problems and blaming Pakistan is the easy way out. It keeps the public's minds from noticing the government's own shortcomings. Did anyone investigate why the Mumbai police are still using pre-WW2 weapons? If they were prepared like they should have been, the incident would not have been this ugly. Instead: All Pakistanis are evil. They are all responsible. Pakistan used to do the same. The used to blame everything on India. However, they have realized that their real problems are from within and they are striving to deal with them. On behalf of the Pakistan people: we welcome you with open arms.

Blaming Pakistan may be easy, but the fact is that Pakistan does sponsor terrorists across the world, not just in India anymore. And, yes, the Indian govt. has MANY shortcomings. I never said they were perfect. Yet, your use of the "pre-WW2 weapons" example is dense. Here's why. If somebody sees a house with an old door and says, "Oh, that's easy to break into!" and then goes and robs the house, would you blame the house owner? Perhaps for being negligent with regards to security but give me a fucking break! The perpetrators of that horrid atrocity were Pakistan-based terrorists and even today your country has not brought to book the mastermind behind the attack!

And, Indians don't hate Pakistan. Interestingly, my sister lived in London for several years. Her closest friends are Pakistani. At first (I'm in the US), my jaw dropped. I think we just need more cultural exchange and interaction. That is all the solution for this whole "India-Pakistan" thing. Of course, who can forget cricket!

What I find ridiculous is India's visa policy. They are not granting visas to Pakistanis for the world cup. Why? Because they are all terrorists. They are not granting visas to Americans who were born in Pakistan. They are not giving visas to anyone with a Pakistani wife. Rising to the world stage? My ass! They are acting like babies.

Dude, if your country had brought the terrorists related to Mumbai 2008 to book, things would be different. There was a German bastard who scoped out the area before the attack. I suppose Indians should scrutinize every German traveling to India now? Look at traveling to the US! It has become such a pain for EVERY brown person! The dumb-fucks in the TSA don't know the difference between a sari and a pardaa.

Point me to "1000s killed"

I've given you enough links for you to read on your own. If you don't want to face the facts, well, that's your problem.

 

[RabidMongoose]

They would probably like to try more than just the Earth 100x over, which is why they should probably be barred from space exploration.

Well, with the way things are going, many other nations will surpass them in space exploration. The UK is pretty meaningless these days.

 

[WelshBloke]

Well, with the way things are going, many other nations will surpass them in space exploration. The UK is pretty meaningless these days.

Yet you still obsess about us and our Royal Family.

Are you sure you don't have a crush on Prince Phillip? :\

 

[CanOWorms]

Well, with the way things are going, many other nations will surpass them in space exploration. The UK is pretty meaningless these days.

:thumbsup:

 

[Baasha]

So, he didnt kill people during his wars? His victory was celebrated with joy in the kingdoms he conquered? :S

Are you that fucking stupid? Is killing soldiers during war and committing genocide against civilians the same thing you twat? The British killed millions of Indian civilians. Ashoka and other great Indian rulers did not. In fact, they engaged in 'DHARMA YUDDHA" (Dharmic Warfare). Only after the advent of the marauding Muslims from Arabia did untold pogroms on civilians take place. And, the brunt of the genocide was committed on Hindus. Ever heard of Hindu Kush?

One more cruel than the other - maybe. One different from the other - NOT.

So according to you, killing civilians in the WTC in 2001 and killing Taliban terrorists are the same? No wonder you're pseudo-secularist!

The very fact that they were always at war meant that they didnt associate with each other. If they felt as being part of the same nation they wouldnt have been at war.

Indians, for thousands of years, have interacted with each other and that is why the culture is very closely linked. There are so many pilgrimage centers around India and people from all areas of the subcontinent have gone there for centuries. Why, even Adi Sankara traveled all over India debating with other philosophers. If it was like "different countries" as you foolishly posit, he would have been barred from doing such a thing. Kingdoms existed that affected only the suzerainty of the rulers, not the citizens. If you think the people of India "didn't associate with each other", you don't know Indian history at all.

Your stupid fucking imaginary umbrella again. If they were ruled by different kings, they were different nations. Just like areas ruled by different govts. are different nations.

Different kings were not part of different nations! In ancient India, there was a Chakravarti who lorded over smaller dominions who had vassal-like kings. The Chakravarti was the ruler of the "country". Harshavardana, Ashoka, Bharata were all Chakravartis.

Again pointless bantering. Taxila was a university because it was a center of learning. Has no correlation to your other statements though. India wasnt unified, except for brief periods of unification by brutal wars.

You obviously couldn't understand the analogy. India, that is Bharat, was there for thousands of years. Your ancestors were insignificant. Perhaps that is why your are so vociferous about this point.

Your logic is wrong. Hindus of India arent a nation. Muslims were allowed to be citizens of India, but some didnt want to be part of a secular nation. These people formed a Muslim religion-state called Pakistan. People who wanted to be a part of a secular state came to/stayed in India.

India, after the British were ousted, was to be a Hindu nation. The Hindus of India are most definitely a nation. Any vermin that don't like that can GTFO. If Muslims of India wanted a nation, they should have all left. "Secular" state was foisted on to the Indian people by Marxists like Nehru and his ilk. Only if Sardar Patel had become PM, India would have become a Hindu nation in 1947. Unfortunately, it will take a few more years for that to happen!

Formation of states on the basis of language was amongst the nicer things young India did. Im happy it wasnt any other arbitrary way, which would have been a good way of decimating all lingual diversity in the name of national unity.

A people can be unified while preserving diversity. Of course, as a converted Christian/Muslim/whatever, you can't see that as those are predatory ideologies that destroy the host they feed on. India has been united for millenia while preserving its incredible diversity of people, language, and culture. Pseudo-secularists, marxists, militant christians and muslims however hide under the "secular" banner of India only to impose draconian theocracies within their own little communities (Kerala anyone?).

Being a part of the same country has only allowed one part to exploit the other. Why is it that the mineral/resource rich regions are also the poorest in India? Why is it that one region has to give up its resources without enjoying any of the benefit? Thats called exploitation, just that in this case its in the name of "national unity".

Exploitation of each other is a human trait, whatever be the nation. Yet, the mineral resource rich regions of India are poor because of Marxism, vote-bank politics, and caste-based reservation. It is highly idiotic to not allow the smart and resourceful people to succeed. That is why America is a success economically. In fact, the people in those areas must recognize that any and all development is for the benefit of the nation; that is why China has climbed up so fast. Yes, China exploits its citizens but there is a balance between selfishness and selflessness.

Indian Govt. gives a subsidy to Amarnath and Mecca pilgrims. My religions HQ is in Florida. Why am I not being given a subsidy to go to FL? Because Im a minority. I dont want my tax dollars subsidising some buttholes religious tours. Secular my ass.

Amarnath pilgrimage just started a few years ago! And, after many riots and resistance by fanatical Muslims, the govt. revoked the promised land that was to be used as rest-stops for the pilgrims! Secular indeed! And, the govt. gives subsidies to Muslims and Christians who go to Mecca and the Vatican (of all places) for pilgrimage while they support no Hindu pilgrimage (to Tirupati, Prayag etc. etc.). And furthermore, the biggest thing is that the govt. taxes Hindu temples while ALL mosques and churches are NOT taxed. Many temples' funds are robbed by govt. employees (usually untouchables and other anit-Hindus). The Indian govt. discriminates against the majority Hindus so much that the temerity of the Christians and Muslims has gone unchecked. "Secular, my ass" is right, but not for the reasons you idiotically state.

The govt. doesnt have a common civil law. Hindus are covered by special laws, not applicable for other religions. The Govt. isnt making any move towards being truly secular either.

Name the law that Hindus are "specially" covered by! In fact, Muslims have their own law since they can marry up to 4 wives.

Way to play the minority-card there! How much did you get paid to convert?

Even worse is the caste/religion based reservation. Why cant I convert castes, if Im allowed to convert religions?

Caste cannot be changed by will. That is why. And, I agree that ALL reservation needs to be stopped. Or, is that what your saying?

The fucking retarded Govt. makes it particularly easy for people speaking a certain language to flourish in the country. Lucrative govt. jobs, like the IAS entrance exams for instance, is conducted in Hindhi, but not in the other official languages, giving unfair advantage to native Hindhi speakers like me. Why arent name boards written in all the languages as you travel by trains across the country? Im being given undue comfort just because my native language is Hindhi.

WTF is "HindHi"? It's Hindi and no, the IAS exam can be taken in English, the other official language of India. Every educated Indian knows English. Hindi is spoken by people all across India except in Tamil Nadu. That is why India is united, by language. And, all the signs etc. are in Hindi, local language, and English. You are stating things that are simply not true.

The central govt. also doesnt allow people to speak in their native language in the Parliament, unless of course it is <wait for it> Hindhi! Keep away 40&#37; of the representatives from expressing their views in their native language and not allowing translators to be used in the Parliament. Thats fucking bull shit.

If everyone spoke in their own language and dialects, nothing would get done. Are you seriously that dense? For a government to function, communication is important. Instead of having only English as the medium, Hindi, the national language is used. If you don't like it, GTFO.

Should the US senate have sessions in Spanish then according to your dense logic?

This is no different from the apartheid regime denying opportunities to blacks, just that the discrimination here is based on the native language rather than skin colour. The central govt. always sees people speaking other languages as the bastard children - making it painful for them at every possible opportunity to work/travel outside their own state or to utilise any of the development work of the central govt. About 40% of the population is forced to learn a non-native language because of this. This does make them much smarter as they work harder to learn the extra language and hence arent as mentally retarded like most Hindhi speakers, like me.

You have serious issues bro.... most politicians know, or at least, should know, the national language of India. If they don't, then they have no business speaking for others (as elected officials) as representatives.

Democracy offers no recourse in such a situation where the majority is the benefactor at the cost of the minority. Democracy is fair only when there is freedom and equality. Else the minority will always be exploited and treated as lesser citizens, all the while being brainwashed into believing that their country offers equality and secularism. The minority will make all the sacrifices in the name of being a united country, even as they are being systematically cleansed out of the system.

Has no relation to India whatsoever. In fact, India bends over backwards to please the ungrateful wretches that are the "minorities". While taking handouts left and right, they abuse the system and give back nothing to make the country progress. Minorities deserve NO SPECIAL treatment. They too are citizens and must act like them.

The people, its freedom and equality, are more important than the country itself. The moment a country asks its people (even if they are a minority) to trade in their equality/freedom for the larger "good" that country no longer deserves to exist. Fuck the country, save the people.

I say, FUCK the minorities who are ungrateful and bite the hand that feeds them. I say, FUCK the minorities who plan systematically to destroy India from within. Who get special treatment from reservations in colleges, to govt. jobs, to other benefits. Handouts for these lazy bums should be stopped immediately and they should be put to... work?

My message is quite simple really: if you're pro-India, peace be upon you. If you're anti-India, PISS be upon you!

 

[busydude]

Every educated Indian knows English. Hindi is spoken by people all across India except in Tamil Nadu. That is why India is united, by language. And, all the signs etc. are in Hindi, local language, and English. You are stating things that are simply not true.

I would like to mention that is not the case. All of the southern states do not speak Hindi; Andhra Pradesh(Not including Hyderabad), Tamilnadu, Kerala and Karnataka.. even a few areas in West Bengal and Orissa do not speak Hindi. Hell, I only learned Hindi for two years.. I can understand well, but have trouble speaking and writing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers_in_India

Only 40&#37; of the population are native Hindi speakers.

I don't like to be part of what you guys are talking, but I just wanted to correct you.

FYI, there is no national language according to the constitution.

 

[KMFJD]

I love these Pakistan/India threads, the hatred and ignorance is refreshing....

 

[The Green Bean]

Pakistan.....snip
I've given you enough links for you to read on your own. If you don't want to face the facts, well, that's your problem.

You keep repeating what you've already said and I've already proved it wrong. I am not going to do it all over again. Your bias and idiocy is apparent for anybody who reads. I don't think I could EVER get along with someone who is a racist Brahmin like you.

 

[Zebo]

Good thread Baasha. Nothing I didn't already know but you give good account of it. Must be superior Indian schooling.

 

[Raghu]

Indians, for thousands of years, have interacted with each other and that is why the culture is very closely linked. There are so many pilgrimage centers around India and people from all areas of the subcontinent have gone there for centuries. Why, even Adi Sankara traveled all over India debating with other philosophers. If it was like "different countries" as you foolishly posit, he would have been barred from doing such a thing.

Just because you are from a different nation doesnt mean that you cant travel to other places. Sure, there werent passports then, but people and religious ideologies were always allowed to spread freely. A lot of christian missionaries come to India from UK/US. Does that make US and India the same nation now?

A people can be unified while preserving diversity. Of course, as a converted Christian/Muslim/whatever, you can't see that as those are predatory ideologies that destroy the host they feed on. India has been united for millenia while preserving its incredible diversity of people, language, and culture. Pseudo-secularists, marxists, militant christians and muslims however hide under the "secular" banner of India only to impose draconian theocracies within their own little communities (Kerala anyone?).

Im very happy that India has been able to preserve its diversity for so long. My contention is that the current govt. is working meticulously to destroy it.

Amarnath pilgrimage just started a few years ago! And, after many riots and resistance by fanatical Muslims, the govt. revoked the promised land that was to be used as rest-stops for the pilgrims! Secular indeed! And, the govt. gives subsidies to Muslims and Christians who go to Mecca and the Vatican (of all places) for pilgrimage while they support no Hindu pilgrimage (to Tirupati, Prayag etc. etc.). And furthermore, the biggest thing is that the govt. taxes Hindu temples while ALL mosques and churches are NOT taxed. Many temples' funds are robbed by govt. employees (usually untouchables and other anit-Hindus). The Indian govt. discriminates against the majority Hindus so much that the temerity of the Christians and Muslims has gone unchecked. "Secular, my ass" is right, but not for the reasons you idiotically state.

Right, if the govt. favours one particular religion - they arent secular. It doesnt matter if the religion is a majority or minority.

Name the law that Hindus are "specially" covered by! In fact, Muslims have their own law since they can marry up to 4 wives.

Correct. Thats exactly what I was talking about. Indian law prevents Hindus from polygamy, while allowing other religions. The inheritance laws are also different for Hindus - equality of the girl child is guaranteed. Hence, Hindus are specially covered by laws that other religions neednt follow.

Caste cannot be changed by will. That is why. And, I agree that ALL reservation needs to be stopped. Or, is that what your saying?

Thats exactly what Im saying. Though I still dont see why caste cant be changed at will. If I can change religion at will, why not caste?

WTF is "HindHi"? It's Hindi and no, the IAS exam can be taken in English, the other official language of India. Every educated Indian knows English. Hindi is spoken by people all across India except in Tamil Nadu. That is why India is united, by language. And, all the signs etc. are in Hindi, local language, and English. You are stating things that are simply not true.

If everyone spoke in their own language and dialects, nothing would get done. Are you seriously that dense? For a government to function, communication is important. Instead of having only English as the medium, Hindi, the national language is used. If you don't like it, GTFO.

Should the US senate have sessions in Spanish then according to your dense logic?

busydude made it very clear - Hindhi is not the national language. Its spoken only by about 40&#37; of the people as their native language. The US neednt take Spanish lessons, but the Spanish representative in the UN should be allowed to speak in his native language (just like how the Spanish Parliament allows 5 languages, Catalan etc.). The UN has translators for this purpose. Why deny such a basic right in the Indian Parliament? Why doesnt the Indian Govt. recognise the lingual diversity of the nation? Thats exactly what the EU does. For instance, the EU constitution is written in all the constituent languages. You can ask questions and get replies in the language of your choice.

http://europa.eu/scadplus/constitution/democracy_en.htm

The very fact that most people have to learn an extra language to write IAS exam makes it harder on them. Why do Hindhi speaking fucktards like me have to get an unfair advantage? Why arent the name boards restricted to only the native language of the region (like in the EU)? Why the unfair advantage for Hindhi readers? I wish the boards would be just in the native language and English. I dont think a German will go to France and demand that signboards be written in German too, because thats the largest language in EU.

That is why the EU is a much fairer system of governance than the current Indian Union. They are founded on the basis of equality and freedom. Yes, its a huge change and there are lot of difficulties. But doing the right thing is more important than citing difficulty to discriminate. That said, India might not make the transition at all. Thats because most of the population has a skewed and terribly wrong idea of the nation, just like you.

You have serious issues bro.... most politicians know, or at least, should know, the national language of India. If they don't, then they have no business speaking for others (as elected officials) as representatives.

Not the national language. FAIL.

My message is quite simple really: if you're pro-India, peace be upon you. If you're anti-India, PISS be upon you!

Good message. Your view of India is wrong though.

India is not united by language, culture, religion or any other factor. If they were the reason(s), then there is no meaning for "unity in diversity". India is united only by the idea of existing as a common nation. The idea of the Indian nation stands by itself, it stands independent of any other crutches like language, religion .etc.

Anyone asking for a free handout should be struck down, irrespective of their minority/majority status.

I think this is the last post from me on this topic. Its like my level is up here and Baasha is down here. I want to associate with more mature people from now on, like who know politics and stuff. Screw you guys, Im going home!

*Hindhi sounds like &#2361;&#2367;&#2344;&#2381;&#2342;&#2368;. Hindi sounds like &#2361;&#2367;&#2344;&#2381;&#2337;&#2368;.

 

[Baasha]

I would like to mention that is not the case. All of the southern states do not speak Hindi; Andhra Pradesh(Not including Hyderabad), Tamilnadu, Kerala and Karnataka.. even a few areas in West Bengal and Orissa do not speak Hindi. Hell, I only learned Hindi for two years.. I can understand well, but have trouble speaking and writing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers_in_India

Only 40&#37; of the population are native Hindi speakers.

I don't like to be part of what you guys are talking, but I just wanted to correct you.

FYI, there is no national language according to the constitution.

Well, you're right that Hindi is not the 'national' language per se. What I meant was that Hindi is taught at all government-run schools except for those in Tamil Nadu.

I'm sure you've heard of the anti-Hindi agitations from the late 1930s and then in 1963. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Hindi_agitations_of_Tamil_Nadu)

It's funny when a nation is supposed to be united, there are more people to block that than there are who would join the fight. I suppose, this has been India's greatest weakness and the invaders sure used it to their advantage.

I believe it was Rajaji who said, "Indians are individually brilliant but collectively stupid!" This thread makes that amply evident.

I sign off from this thread.

Jai Hind!

/thread

 

[Raghu]

Well, you're right that Hindi is not the 'national' language per se. What I meant was that Hindi is taught at all government-run schools except for those in Tamil Nadu.

I'm sure you've heard of the anti-Hindi agitations from the late 1930s and then in 1963. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Hindi_agitations_of_Tamil_Nadu)

It's funny when a nation is supposed to be united, there are more people to block that than there are who would join the fight. I suppose, this has been India's greatest weakness and the invaders sure used it to their advantage.

I believe it was Rajaji who said, "Indians are individually brilliant but collectively stupid!" This thread makes that amply evident.

No, you are wrong again. It isnt taught in all govt. school. Govt. schools in Karnataka, TN, Kerala and few other states dont teach Hindhi. The move to enforce Hindhi is just another example of the effort to destroy diversity and discriminate against a certain section. As a native Hindhi speaker, Im glad this didnt succeed. When the Hindhi speaking morons found that it couldnt be done directly, the central govt. started using subtle but strong means to do it (IAS, Parliament .etc.).

Also, Im pretty sure Rajaji didnt call Indians collectively stupid. Nor are they individually brilliant.