Originally posted by: athithi
Oh my God! You Americans are so sensitive
etech, most Americans like yourself may not comprehend this immediately, but America does not mandate how much pride Indians or people of Indian descent should display towards India. If the Indians on this board sound "desperately happy", some of the Americans, like beer and yourself, sound downright petulant. It was a friendly combat exercise - "the USAF would kick IAF a$$" the other 9 times. Get over it already
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: athithi
Oh my God! You Americans are so sensitive
etech, most Americans like yourself may not comprehend this immediately, but America does not mandate how much pride Indians or people of Indian descent should display towards India. If the Indians on this board sound "desperately happy", some of the Americans, like beer and yourself, sound downright petulant. It was a friendly combat exercise - "the USAF would kick IAF a$$" the other 9 times. Get over it already
athithi,
You should take your own advice and get over it. I'm happy your hand-picked squadron mangaged to do so well against a regular squadron of ours in this exercise. If Indians feel the need to crow over it and say they kicked the USAF's ass than I have no problem with that. I was just curious why you felt you had to make such a big deal out it.
Your attitude that I was trying to control Indians pride is amusing and also somewhat telling about the above question but we don't need to get into that.
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: athithi
Oh my God! You Americans are so sensitive
etech, most Americans like yourself may not comprehend this immediately, but America does not mandate how much pride Indians or people of Indian descent should display towards India. If the Indians on this board sound "desperately happy", some of the Americans, like beer and yourself, sound downright petulant. It was a friendly combat exercise - "the USAF would kick IAF a$$" the other 9 times. Get over it already
athithi,
You should take your own advice and get over it. I'm happy your hand-picked squadron mangaged to do so well against a regular squadron of ours in this exercise. If Indians feel the need to crow over it and say they kicked the USAF's ass than I have no problem with that. I was just curious why you felt you had to make such a big deal out it.
Your attitude that I was trying to control Indians pride is amusing and also somewhat telling about the above question but we don't need to get into that.
etech, there's a difference between innocent curiosity and condescension.
"desperatly happy", "contrived scenario", "such a big deal out of it" - all these phrases make it obvious that you were annoyed and, unless you feel being annoyed is the natural state of mind for you, you definitely had a problem with the Indians expressing their pride here.
I'm happy your hand-picked squadron mangaged to do so well against a regular squadron of ours in this exercise.
Seriously, like kalster (I think) said, this is like "my dad can beat up your dad". I might be mistaken, but you sounded a lot more mature in your other posts in these forums
Originally posted by: Vonkhan
The title is pretty silly ...
The Indians performed well, yeah ... when a MiG-21 can get a bead on a F-15C, it speaks volumes about the skill of the former's pilot.
It's good for Indian national pride, sure ... the Indian pilots proved that they're exceptionally good at dogfighting
Will the IAF kick the USAF's a55 in an all-out war ...probably NOT!
The point of an excercize is that of dissimilar training in which u go up against unfamiliar tactics and weapons.
The IAF learnt that it needs to up its BVR capabilities (altho it has the really capable AA-12 Adder missiles), the lack of an AWAC platform really hurts it - this is going to change when they acquire the Israeli Phalcon AWAC.
The USAF learnt that its dogfighting skills need to be revised if its pilots are to better their chances at close-in combat.
Here's an interesting read ...
Russian Su-30MK fighter jet beats American F-15C every time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By David A. Fulghum and Douglas Barrie/Aviation Week & Space Technology
The Russian-built Sukhoi Su- 30MK, the high-performance fighter being exported to India and China, consistently beat the F-15C in classified simulations, say U.S. Air Force and aerospace industry officials.
In certain circumstances, the Su-30 can use its maneuverability, enhanced by thrust-vectoring nozzles, and speed to fool the F- 15's radar, fire two missiles and escape before the U.S. fighter can adequately respond. This is according to Air Force officials who have seen the results of extensive studies of multi- aircraft engagements conducted in a complex of 360-deg. simulation domes at Boeing's St. Louis facilities.
"The Su-30 tactic and the success of its escape maneuver permit the second, close-in shot, in case the BVR [beyond- visual-range] shot missed," an Air Force official said. Air Force analysts believe U.S. electronic warfare techniques are adequate to spoof the missile's radar. "That [second shot] is what causes concern to the F-15 community," he said. "Now, the Su-30 pilot is assured two shots plus an effective escape, which greatly increases the total engagement [kill percentage]."
THE SCENARIO in which the Su-30 "always" beats the F-15 involves the Sukhoi taking a shot with a BVR missile (like the AA-12 Adder) and then "turning into the clutter notch of the F- 15's radar," the Air Force official said. Getting into the clutter notch where the Doppler radar is ineffective involves making a descending, right-angle turn to drop below the approaching F- 15 while reducing the Su-30's relative forward speed close to zero. This is a 20- year-old air combat tactic, but the Russian fighter's maneuverability, ability to dump speed quickly and then rapidly regain acceleration allow it to execute the tactic with great effectiveness, observers said.
If the maneuver is flown correctly, the Su-30 is invisible to the F-15's Doppler radar--which depends on movement of its targets-- until the U.S. fighter gets to within range of the AA-11 Archer infrared missile. The AA-11 has a high-off- boresight capability and is used in combination with a helmet-mounted sight and a modern high-speed processor that rapidly spits out the target solution.
Positioned below the F-15, the Su-30 then uses its passive infrared sensor to frame the U.S. fighter against the sky with no background clutter. The Russian fighter then takes its second shot, this time with the IR missile, and accelerates out of danger.
"It works in the simulator every time," the Air Force official said. However, he did point out that U.S. pilots are flying both aircraft in the tests. Few countries maintain a pilot corps with the air-to- air combat skills needed to fly these scenarios, said an aerospace industry official involved in stealth fighter programs.
[/b]^ This is what the USAF was trying to verify through the excercize[/b]
Originally posted by: athithi
etech,
That's nice, perhaps you can find someone that cares.
For someone that doesn't care, you seem too eager to respond
Originally posted by: athithi
Oh my God! You Americans are so sensitive
etech, most Americans like yourself may not comprehend this immediately, but America does not mandate how much pride Indians or people of Indian descent should display towards India. If the Indians on this board sound "desperately happy", some of the Americans, like beer and yourself, sound downright petulant. It was a friendly combat exercise - "the USAF would kick IAF a$$" the other 9 times. Get over it already
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: athithi
etech,
That's nice, perhaps you can find someone that cares.
For someone that doesn't care, you seem too eager to respond
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
That comment was to respond to your " I might be mistaken, but you sounded a lot more mature in your other posts in these forums "
Why don't you go do something India can be proud of?
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: athithi
etech,
That's nice, perhaps you can find someone that cares.
For someone that doesn't care, you seem too eager to respond
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
That comment was to respond to your " I might be mistaken, but you sounded a lot more mature in your other posts in these forums "
Why don't you go do something India can be proud of?
etech, I'll admit it was a bit of challenge reading through your grammatical and typographical errors, but I did manage to get the substance (and trust me, there was very little of it) of your posts.
Why won't you stop trying to influence my pride for my country (or vice-versa)? Don't you see the problem here? If you just limited your stunted intelligence to the praise, defense and/or criticism of the USAF, it would be understandable. When you comment about Indians and their pride for India, you are shooting your mouth off and exposing your peevish mentality. To top that, you pretend it is genuine curiosity and when I point that out, you sidetrack onto other things. You really suck at this debate - not that you care (though I am sure you would still care enough to attempt another lame rebuttal), but I felt compelled to point out how you are thin-skinned, small-minded and deceptive about your true opinions.
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: athithi
etech,
That's nice, perhaps you can find someone that cares.
For someone that doesn't care, you seem too eager to respond
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
That comment was to respond to your " I might be mistaken, but you sounded a lot more mature in your other posts in these forums "
Why don't you go do something India can be proud of?
etech, I'll admit it was a bit of challenge reading through your grammatical and typographical errors, but I did manage to get the substance (and trust me, there was very little of it) of your posts.
Why won't you stop trying to influence my pride for my country (or vice-versa)? Don't you see the problem here? If you just limited your stunted intelligence to the praise, defense and/or criticism of the USAF, it would be understandable. When you comment about Indians and their pride for India, you are shooting your mouth off and exposing your peevish mentality. To top that, you pretend it is genuine curiosity and when I point that out, you sidetrack onto other things. You really suck at this debate - not that you care (though I am sure you would still care enough to attempt another lame rebuttal), but I felt compelled to point out how you are thin-skinned, small-minded and deceptive about your true opinions.
You sure picked on the wrong guy! I have always maintained that I will never post anything negative about the US or its policies where they don't concern me or my country of birth - check my posts - all of them. You would have had a point about Indians gloating over very little if only you had been objective about it. Instead, you chose to be partisan and whine about it. I agree, I do have a bit of a hang-up about defending my nation's honor and dignity. I am not ashamed; I could do worse, I suppose *shrugs*Originally posted by: beer
Right, the F-15s suck so much that we have never lost a single plane in combat, including Gulf War 1 against the most advanced Russian SAMs in the world
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