Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

[ch33zw1z]

It sounds like your issue is with people who refuse to properly secure/store their gun, not with the actual ownership of the gun. There should be tougher laws on safety/storage of guns for gun owners.

It’s certainly A piece to the puzzle, but obviously relies on humans to be honest, so it’s iffy at best….but worth at least attempting to implement nation wide. However, I don’t see GOP voters making it happen.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I mean, I've known people who took overdoses, and survived. The only person I've known who successfully took their own life was a medical professional who had access to the "right" drugs and the knowledge of how to use them. Guns just make it so much easier to make irreversible spur-of-the-moment decisions.

They absolutely do. Guns are very effective at their intent: ending life

 

[eelw]

It’s certainly A piece to the puzzle, but obviously relies on humans to be honest, so it’s iffy at best….but worth at least attempting to implement nation wide. However, I don’t see GOP voters making it happen.

But really why they are against such a basic thing???

 

[ch33zw1z]

But really why they are against such a basic thing???

Marketing via logical fallacy arguments.

 

[Zorba]

It sounds like your issue is with people who refuse to properly secure/store their gun, not with the actual ownership of the gun. There should be tougher laws on safety/storage of guns for gun owners.

I completely agree. Proper gun stotage and actual consequence for not following proper storage rules should be the bare minimum. Most gun people wouldn't support that, though, especially people that think they need their gun available for self defense at all times. A ton of gun safes and locks are also trivially easy to defeat, so there would be to be some type of really standard there as well.

 

[Zorba]

But really why they are against such a basic thing???

"A locked up gun is no good for self defense" and probably the real reason they don't want to have to be a "responsible" gun owner under threat of any type of liability.

 

[DaaQ]

What about something like this? https://stopboxusa.com/products/stopbox-pro-1

 

[Paratus]

What about something like this? https://stopboxusa.com/products/stopbox-pro-1

Better than nothing but appropriate storage only protects against some bad outcomes. Some issues I see:

• Doesn’t prevent the gun owner from using the weapon when drunk, high, angry, ill, depressed etc to shoot himself or family.
• 81 combinations is few enough that a kid home alone could run through them all in about 20 minutes.
• Need more information on how the combinations work. I see 4 buttons which if they only go up or down is 2^4 (16) combinations not 81. There must be a 3rd position 3^4 =81 - not sure how they implemented it and whether it will make it difficult to access the gun quickly.

 

[uallas5]

Better than nothing but appropriate storage only protects against some bad outcomes. Some issues I see:

• Doesn’t prevent the gun owner from using the weapon when drunk, high, angry, ill, depressed etc to shoot himself or family.
• 81 combinations is few enough that a kid home alone could run through them all in about 20 minutes.
• Need more information on how the combinations work. I see 4 buttons which if they only go up or down is 2^4 (16) combinations not 81. There must be a 3rd position 3^4 =81 - not sure how they implemented it and whether it will make it difficult to access the gun quickly.

I watched the video on how to change the combination and the 81 possible combinations is due to there being a 1/2 press as well as all the way out and all the way in. These positions are set via interchangeable keys (buttons) for the 3 positions. The weird thing is the video describes the 'all the way out' key as a "dummy" key that has no effect on the lock bar. To me that would imply that if you used that one, it wouldn't matter if you pressed it or not, thus reducing your potential number of combinations significantly.

 

[Zorba]

What about something like this? https://stopboxusa.com/products/stopbox-pro-1

Perfect example of what I meant when I said most gun storage is easy to defect, or in this case complete junk.

There are many other videos of him defeating all kinds of gun locks and safes with very little effort. I think gun lock companies know gun nutters care more about the illusion of safety than actual safety.

 

[quikah]

Perfect example of what I meant when I said most gun storage is easy to defect, or in this case complete junk.

There are many other videos of him defeating all kinds of gun locks and safes with very little effort. I think gun lock companies know gun nutters care more about the illusion of safety than actual safety.

To be fair, that is the original stopbox. The original link in this thread is for the Stopbox Pro, which has the 81 combinations. As an adendum, the original stopbox can be upgraded to the same lock style as the pro: https://stopboxusa.com/products/actuator-accessory-pack-pre-order

No idea if the "Pro" version is any better.

 

[Zorba]

To be fair, that is the original stopbox. The original link in this thread is for the Stopbox Pro, which has the 81 combinations. As an adendum, the original stopbox can be upgraded to the same lock style as the pro: https://stopboxusa.com/products/actuator-accessory-pack-pre-order

No idea if the "Pro" version is any better.

Doesn't look like he has done the Pro yet. But 81 combinations is a joke and would take a kid a few minutes to try all of time.

 

[DaaQ]

They have a video on their site of letting 2 boys, although younger than 12 imo, try to get it open, I cannot remember the time lapse before they gave up.

Biggest glaring issue I see is when it is open the lock combo is visible, IE they stay in position.
The newer version I don't know if it has 3 click levels or 4, would be interested in how that tactile feedback of the buttons are.

I see uses for this though as a mobile protection device, also doesn't have to be exclusively for fire arms.

They really need to solve the buttons resetting when closed. I read concerns of a lack of key also, The Bulwark edition has one. They also have something for (I cannot remember the name) it is not a trigger lock though.

I think this would keep smaller children from accessing fire arms from less responsible owners. IE " stay off my lawn, stay out of my room, stay out of my closet.

Also may prevent theft from a vehicle, if it's not in plain sight.

Just my opinions, was curious what people think.

EDIT:
Just watched a changing the combination video, yea there would be ALOT of lazy enough people that wouldn't bother.

Edit edit: The finger positions while open, I would say from watching my grandaughters grow, would catch that pretty quickly. Imo fatal flaw. no pun intended.

I think this would be decent alternative to keeping some private stuff from say a room mate, IF you actually go through with altering the locking sequence.

 

[MrSquished]

Apparently we don't just have to stop mental illness we also just have to stop quarreling. It's not the guns at all it's just too much mental illness and people actually have arguments. The guns don't make a difference

 

[DaaQ]

Perfect example of what I meant when I said most gun storage is easy to defect, or in this case complete junk.

There are many other videos of him defeating all kinds of gun locks and safes with very little effort. I think gun lock companies know gun nutters care more about the illusion of safety than actual safety.

Has a use case.

Crap here I am deciding to get Last Epoch or not and stuck in this you tube algorithm 🤦‍♂️

 

[Pipeline 1010]

I completely agree. Proper gun stotage and actual consequence for not following proper storage rules should be the bare minimum. Most gun people wouldn't support that, though, especially people that think they need their gun available for self defense at all times. A ton of gun safes and locks are also trivially easy to defeat, so there would be to be some type of really standard there as well.

I fully support gun storage laws, but I don't think they are enough. It's more of a Band-Aid than a solution, but Band-Aids still serve a purpose. It doesn't ultimately fix the underlying issue of why people want to take their lives. I think we are too focused on removing the tools that people use to do tragic things than we are on working on helping them not want to do the tragic things.

Believe it or not, the majority of "gun-nutters" support such laws and probably already own proper storage devices that both keep the gun safe from children AND keep the gun available for self defense. There are many such storage solutions.

 

[manly]

SCOTUS will soon decide whether to uphold 2018 Trump admin ban on bump stocks:

The Supreme Court will decide whether to let civilians own automatic weapons — Vox

Garland v. Cargill asks whether gun makers can evade the ban on machine guns with a device called a bump stock.

apple.news

Otherwise, the Donald is very proud of doing nothing about gun violence. He’s got a few days left to ”forget” about this 2018 regulation and demand on the campaign stump that his court undoes it. ACB is likely the decisive vote.

MSNBC - Trump salutes the gun lobby in the aftermath of the Kansas City shooting

 

[SMOGZINN]

I fully support gun storage laws, but I don't think they are enough. It's more of a Band-Aid than a solution, but Band-Aids still serve a purpose. It doesn't ultimately fix the underlying issue of why people want to take their lives. I think we are too focused on removing the tools that people use to do tragic things than we are on working on helping them not want to do the tragic things.

Believe it or not, the majority of "gun-nutters" support such laws and probably already own proper storage devices that both keep the gun safe from children AND keep the gun available for self defense. There are many such storage solutions.

My family ran a company that hired and managed armed guards for businesses. I have known a lot, literally hundreds, of people that own and carry guns daily, including almost everyone in my family. I don't think any of them have any device to secure their firearms. Most of them have a fancy glass cabinet that they keep their long arms in that if it even has a lock on it (and they bother to lock it) is the cheap furniture locks that any 10 year old can unlock with a paperclip.

I know that anecdote does not make for data, but I think you give people a lot more credit then they deserve. I doubt 1 in 100 people that owns a firearm does anything at all to secure it.

 

[nakedfrog]

I fully support gun storage laws, but I don't think they are enough. It's more of a Band-Aid than a solution, but Band-Aids still serve a purpose. It doesn't ultimately fix the underlying issue of why people want to take their lives. I think we are too focused on removing the tools that people use to do tragic things than we are on working on helping them not want to do the tragic things.

Believe it or not, the majority of "gun-nutters" support such laws and probably already own proper storage devices that both keep the gun safe from children AND keep the gun available for self defense. There are many such storage solutions.

I guess that's nice and all, but they don't vote for people that are going to enact any of those laws, so...

 

[MrSquished]

No point in passing laws against guns or even trying to, the corrupt Republican judges would fuck everything up anyways. Even bringing things to a vote at opportune times is meaningless. We never did anything wrong, look what it came to ultimately? Bad GQP.

 

[igor_kavinski]

corrupt Republican judges

ChatGPT says:

The Constitution of the United States does not explicitly address the impartiality of judges. However, the Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to a fair trial, which includes the right to have a judge who is impartial and unbiased.

Additionally, the Code of Conduct for United States Judges, which is a set of ethical guidelines for federal judges, requires judges to maintain impartiality in all their activities, including hearing cases, making decisions, and interacting with parties involved in a case. The code emphasizes the importance of judges acting with integrity, independence, and impartiality in order to uphold public trust and confidence in the judiciary.

How can a judge be impartial if he isn't politically neutral?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Former Chief, future Convict?

Former Uvalde school police chief and officer indicted over Robb Elementary response, reports say​

ABC|2 hours ago
The former Uvalde schools police chief and another former officer have been criminally charged for their role in the slow police response to the 2022 massacre in a Texas elementary school that left 19 children and two teachers dead,

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Former Chief, future Convict?

Former Uvalde school police chief and officer indicted over Robb Elementary response, reports say​

ABC|2 hours ago
The former Uvalde schools police chief and another former officer have been criminally charged for their role in the slow police response to the 2022 massacre in a Texas elementary school that left 19 children and two teachers dead,

Pussy ass Uvalde Police and the rest of the hundreds of dickless Texas police that showed up to guard the parking lot while those kids were being murdered are trying to make the Uvalde school police chief the fall guy. Fuck the Uvalde police and every other useless piece of shit in a badge who showed up there and then did nothing. If that isn't the clearest sign yet that police budgets should be slashed and a lot of these gangster leeches fired I don't know what else would be.

 

[trenchfoot]

Pussy ass Uvalde Police and the rest of the hundreds of dickless Texas police that showed up to guard the parking lot while those kids were being murdered are trying to make the Uvalde school police chief the fall guy. Fuck the Uvalde police and every other useless piece of shit in a badge who showed up there and then did nothing. If that isn't the clearest sign yet that police budgets should be slashed and a lot of these gangster leeches fired I don't know what else would be.

I think a lot of the....shall we say "hesitation" the cops displayed is due to the total lack of training for emergency response scenarios those cops should have had but didn't. I've seen other examples of cops responding to emergencies that was near textbook perfect and of course that was due to the training they had to effect a proper speedy response to various scenarios they'd probably encounter in their precincts. Not trying to make excuses for the apparent cowardice that was on display, just mentioning what seemed to be a logical reason for the way they failed to mount a proper response.

 

[igor_kavinski]

due to the total lack of training for emergency response scenarios those cops should have had but didn't.

Uvalde School Shooting Response Failures Will 'Set Back Law Enforcement 20 Years' - The Truth About Guns

By Lindsay Whitehurst, AP A total of 376 officers converged on Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas — more than the entire police force in a midsize American city like Fort Lauderdale, Florida, or Tempe, Arizona. But for more than 70 minutes on May 24, not one stopped the shooter. Amid the...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

From the comments:

Jimmy Beam July 19, 2022 At 11:53
Most of those cops are so fat they couldn’t run a hundred yards. If they confronted the shooter, half of them would have died of massive heart attacks. Cops these days are a joke. An absolute joke. For many reasons, but the principal reason is they aren’t allowed to do their jobs.
Confront a hoodlum on the street? Not worth the trouble and mountain of paperwork, and an overzealous lefty prosecutor will more than likely send my a** to prison. I’ll just sit here and drink coffee and eat donuts.
Disband the whole works. A waste of money. The same goes for public schools. What a joke.

I think that's the crux of the problem. Why have lazy people on the job if fitness is super critical to carrying out their duties? And I might catch some flak for saying this (because I don't know what a filter is because it doesn't exist in my mind), but I've noticed that fat people are more concerned about staying alive than normal people. They are more likely to visit doctors for even trivial issues. It's like they think eating is life and oh so wonderful and it can't lead to an early death because it's oh so natural to eat so they ignore that as a potential source of health issues and focus on everything else (I don't know why I keep getting fat! I only eat three times a day! <<< this from a real guy who does not exercise and has a sedentary job and who is so immobile that he will wait until the last minute to get up and go to the washroom).