- Oct 16, 2003
- 7,842
- 2
- 81
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/13/national/main635936.shtml
I'm not sure anyone can spin this as good news.
I'm not sure anyone can spin this as good news.
Income Gap Of Poor, Rich, Widens
- Thread starter Todd33
- Start date
I own a home and stocks and I'm not rich. I've been getting pay raises above the rate of inflation too.
Don't forget that the top 5% wage earners also pay 50% of the taxes.
- Oct 16, 2003
- 7,842
- 2
- 81
Man you do sound like a parrot. *Squak* Top 5%*Squawk*
How much of the countries wealth does the top 5% own? There is a reason they pay that much, they owe that much. I can also safely say you are not in the top 5% Rip, so stop defending a group you can even afford to caddie for.
You really think they "owe" that much? Wow that is a pretty perverse idea.
And where exactly did Mr Riprorin say he was in the top 5% ? He said he owns a home and stocks. Quite clearly he said he is not rich. Your point on that was moot.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
It doesn't matter. Yours and other's class envy is pretty lame IMO. Quit your bitching and get off your ass and become those you think are evil(the rich). Now if you don't want to be rich(monetarily) the STFU about those who are. They pay more than the rest of us serfs and most people who whine about the tax-cuts also don't realize that the G-dDamn Evil Fvcking Rich bastards pay for everyone else's freaking Medicare and such. How many millionaires do you think will see the "fair share" or even close to what they've paid in? Hmmm...didn't think so.
I was listening to Bob Brinker this weekend on my drive home and he basically said the same thing. People need to quit wining about the tax-cuts because they worked. They put money into the system when it was needed and raising taxes will do nothing but ruin the recovery that is well on it's way.
Anyway - you are the one who sounds like a parrot. You bleat the same tune that has been spouted here a thousand times before and still isn't based on logic. Pfffttt - you guys make me laugh with your little "anti-rich" BS. Come back when you learn a little about Capitalism and how Investing works.
/rant
If there is one argument from the left that pisses me off the most, it's this one about their class envy. :|
CkG
Hopefully by the time I get into the middle class bracket the tax burden will shift back to the wealthy. In the meantime I'll still be aiming for middle class. Back to chugging. Chug Chug Chug Chug Woot WOOT!! Chug Chug Chug
XMan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 12,513
- 49
- 91
Quick quiz, fellas - at what amount of income does the top 10% of earners begin? They pay a disproportionate share of taxes.
Hint: it's not anywhere close to what most people would call "rich."
The FairTax plan is looking more and more appealing all the time . . .
Hint: it's not anywhere close to what most people would call "rich."
The FairTax plan is looking more and more appealing all the time . . .
Nice attack, CkG, along with the usual disinformational spin. I often wonder if you actually believe what you're saying, or if you actually believe in anything beyond greed. One week, you're ranting about limousine liberals, the next, it's class envy...
The subject at hand is really all about greed, and the way it's been marketed as good, and beneficial to us all. Given the explosive growth of income and net worth among the top 1% over the last 20 years, I'd think they'd be more than happy to pay their taxes, given that they're among the lowest in the developed world. But no, all we get is whining about how progressive taxes aren't "fair" and about how much they pay, percentage-wise, and yada, yada, yada... Ignoring the truth, that so-called success in our society is largely a matter of luck rather than work, and also ignoring the simple fact that the illusion of supply side economic success is maintained only by mounting federal debt... Hard work and intelligence won't get you anywhere past upper middle class, no matter what those uber-right think tanks tell you...
Any group whose income and net worth increase in that fashion obviously aren't overtaxed- if anything, given that they're the political donor class, it distorts and corrupts politics in ways all too apparent... Why pay taxes when buying off politicians is cheaper, and you've got the clout to get the job done?
And, of course, the Right never wants to discuss the basis of taxes in the modern state, the principle that we all sacrifice for the common good. Paying SS, Medicare, sales, excise and all the other taxes hidden as fees, folks at the bottom make rather large sacrifices... paying 22.3% on an average income of $134M, as the top 400 do, isn't much of a sacrifice at all, in comparison...
Forty years ago, the wealthy were proud to pay big taxes on big money, more than happy to help build America in that way. And why not? It affected their lifestyles not in the slightest- they still made more than they spent, and invested the rest. Their sacrifice was still small... And then, with the rise of Reaganomics, they got greedy, and found out that they could manipulate the press and the political climate to allow them even more, and more, and more... no longer an issue of economics, it became an issue of power, the power to destroy egalitarian democracy from within... enlisting a lot of bitter middle class chumps with emotional appeals to their twisted belief in things that aren't true... buying them off with chumpchange fake tax cuts, shifting the blame for the country's ills onto the less fortunate, blinding them with faux patriotism...
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and also of envy... those who attempt to imitate the wealthy in thought and deed are the truly envious. Might be time for those of that particular bent to do a little mirror-check.... Can't see it, can you? of course not....
The subject at hand is really all about greed, and the way it's been marketed as good, and beneficial to us all. Given the explosive growth of income and net worth among the top 1% over the last 20 years, I'd think they'd be more than happy to pay their taxes, given that they're among the lowest in the developed world. But no, all we get is whining about how progressive taxes aren't "fair" and about how much they pay, percentage-wise, and yada, yada, yada... Ignoring the truth, that so-called success in our society is largely a matter of luck rather than work, and also ignoring the simple fact that the illusion of supply side economic success is maintained only by mounting federal debt... Hard work and intelligence won't get you anywhere past upper middle class, no matter what those uber-right think tanks tell you...
Any group whose income and net worth increase in that fashion obviously aren't overtaxed- if anything, given that they're the political donor class, it distorts and corrupts politics in ways all too apparent... Why pay taxes when buying off politicians is cheaper, and you've got the clout to get the job done?
And, of course, the Right never wants to discuss the basis of taxes in the modern state, the principle that we all sacrifice for the common good. Paying SS, Medicare, sales, excise and all the other taxes hidden as fees, folks at the bottom make rather large sacrifices... paying 22.3% on an average income of $134M, as the top 400 do, isn't much of a sacrifice at all, in comparison...
Forty years ago, the wealthy were proud to pay big taxes on big money, more than happy to help build America in that way. And why not? It affected their lifestyles not in the slightest- they still made more than they spent, and invested the rest. Their sacrifice was still small... And then, with the rise of Reaganomics, they got greedy, and found out that they could manipulate the press and the political climate to allow them even more, and more, and more... no longer an issue of economics, it became an issue of power, the power to destroy egalitarian democracy from within... enlisting a lot of bitter middle class chumps with emotional appeals to their twisted belief in things that aren't true... buying them off with chumpchange fake tax cuts, shifting the blame for the country's ills onto the less fortunate, blinding them with faux patriotism...
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and also of envy... those who attempt to imitate the wealthy in thought and deed are the truly envious. Might be time for those of that particular bent to do a little mirror-check.... Can't see it, can you? of course not....
Nice spin to make it sound unAmerican if you want what is really yours and earned :roll:
It isn't about greed. It is about what is right and wrong. Punnishing success isn't right--it is discrimination.
From DWW-
"Nice spin to make it sound unAmerican if you want what is really yours and earned "
"Earned" is an interesting term in that context. Compare the incomes of those in the top 400, averaging $134M/yr, with those at the 90th percentile, who earned less than $134K/yr... and actually paid about the same in federal income taxes, and a much larger percentage in all the other taxes mentioned above...
Were those top 400 over 1000 times smarter, or did they work 1000 times harder, or some combination of the two? Obviously not, given that folks at the 90th percentile are generally extremely intelligent and hardworking. Put that difference in some terms other than luck, if you will, some set of terms to make it morally palatable, to make it seem like it's deserved, actually earned, and I'll be happy to listen...
Until then- check out this nifty little graph, maybe some of the links, if you want to understand reality...
http://www.lcurve.org/
"Nice spin to make it sound unAmerican if you want what is really yours and earned "
"Earned" is an interesting term in that context. Compare the incomes of those in the top 400, averaging $134M/yr, with those at the 90th percentile, who earned less than $134K/yr... and actually paid about the same in federal income taxes, and a much larger percentage in all the other taxes mentioned above...
Were those top 400 over 1000 times smarter, or did they work 1000 times harder, or some combination of the two? Obviously not, given that folks at the 90th percentile are generally extremely intelligent and hardworking. Put that difference in some terms other than luck, if you will, some set of terms to make it morally palatable, to make it seem like it's deserved, actually earned, and I'll be happy to listen...
Until then- check out this nifty little graph, maybe some of the links, if you want to understand reality...
http://www.lcurve.org/
Does the individual bear no responsibility for his well being?
Here's a hint, if you want to earn a good living, get a good education in marketable field or if you aren't intellectually inclined, learn a good trade.
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 25,383
- 1,013
- 126
Then you're not very imaginative. You're looking at things from a zero-sum relative basis, saying that the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. Anyone else with half a brain would look at the beginning of the comparison period (1973) and say without a moment's hesitation that the gain in absolute terms is what's important. The middle class and "poor" can afford a lifestyle on 2004 that even the "rich" in 1973 couldn't have. Microwave ovens, computers, MRI machines, Walkman radios, cellular phones, cars other than Ford Pintos, etc etc etc. So while your "rich are richer" is an interesting factoid, it's also meaningless without the context of what the money being discussed actually buys.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,805
- 6,361
- 126
FYI, the top 5% may pay 50% of Income Tax, but they don't pay 50% of their Income in Taxes. Their Tax Rate is only a few Percentage points higher than the Middle Classes rate. They Pay such a high portion of Income Taxes because their Wealth is so much higher than the other 95% of the Population.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
:roll:
This class envy garbage is assinine and there was no disinformation except for the blather spewed by your equally as evious friend. Yes, one can speak of the hypocrisy of the limo libbies and about the class envy whiners. One does nothing but whine and the other yaps about how much they care and about how everyone else should be doing more(while they do little).
The rest of your post is the same old rehashed redistributionist garbage that has spewed from the left for years. Someday you might want to take a look at this in a realistic light instead of your pie in the sky arbitrary "fairness".
People earn money - they should be able to keep it and do with it as they wish
People invest money - they should be able to reap the benifits of putting their money at risk
None of this changes with whether or not someone is "rich" or "poor" but some of you wish to take a bigger chunk from those you arbitrarily say "don't need it as much"
***********
glenn1 - good point
CkG
The butt holes will understand this better when competition leaves one person with everything and paying all the taxes. Then they will get their wish and pay no taxes just like in their dreams.
Along as I, in the bottom 1%, can have a place to live, cable TV, broadband internet, fast food every night of the week, and government subsidized collage then the ?gap? is completely un important.
only 15% get a collage degree.
so don't think we're so disproportionate that it's Mexico, we simply reward those who add the most to society with more.
actually the top 2% pay 40% of said tax, but the top 20% have 45% of the wealth.
only 15% get a collage degree.
so don't think we're so disproportionate that it's Mexico, we simply reward those who add the most to society with more.
the highest income tax bracket [if i remember correctly] is somehwere around 33%. This graduated system of income taxing is blatantly biased and needs to go! Im just surprised that for all the bleating that the libbies do about fairness and equality, that theyre not bantering on about how we need to reform the tax system to something a bit more balanced.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
:roll:
This class envy garbage is assinine and there was no disinformation except for the blather spewed by your equally as evious friend. Yes, one can speak of the hypocrisy of the limo libbies and about the class envy whiners. One does nothing but whine and the other yaps about how much they care and about how everyone else should be doing more(while they do little).
The rest of your post is the same old rehashed redistributionist garbage that has spewed from the left for years. Someday you might want to take a look at this in a realistic light instead of your pie in the sky arbitrary "fairness".
People earn money - they should be able to keep it and do with it as they wish
People invest money - they should be able to reap the benifits of putting their money at risk
None of this changes with whether or not someone is "rich" or "poor" but some of you wish to take a bigger chunk from those you arbitrarily say "don't need it as much"
***********
glenn1 - good point
CkG
If you had you way we would still have 10 year olds working 18 hour shifts in dangerous sweatshops as they did in England, or go back to how we mined in Applacia.
Class envy is an invented BS term. Some bastard doesn't have enough heart to help his fellow man and gets called on it?
CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY
Give it a rest. If the people in power had their way, you would be living in a shack buying from the company store. We have the standard of living in America because we have both opportunity AND those who resist this country becoming a South American travesty where one group has all the wealth and the others none.
Want to be rich? Well just go out and do it!! THere are thousands upon thousands upon thousands who work more than you or I and harder too just to provide health care, a roof over their kids heads and some food on the table. How many hundreds of hours a day will they have to work to become rich?
What a fantasy. This country can support only so many millionares. It wants more janitors than millionares. Some get there, but not everyone has the real opportunity to do so. If you don't like how this country is run then become king! Just as easy for me to say that.
In the real world this is a Darwinian country. There are wolves and sheep. You cannot always change into a wolf.
This isn't about class envy. It's about some of the sheep not wanting to get eaten. Of course there are sheep who feel bad for the wolf and are standing up for them.
Don't worry about the rich. They have everything they need. They may have to pay more in taxes, but they don't go hungry.
Why dont you use some of that indignation and stand up as much for those who DO go hungry. Not worthy of your concern it seems.
Being "rich" is a realitive thing. I'd be willing to bet many people would be happy and consider theirselves rich if they could afford their own home and have money left over to invest for their retirement.
Would you have the bottom 5% paying 50% of the taxes??? Obviously you would if you could, then you could invest even more money. I'm sick and tired of listening to the well-off people whine about taxes. It's a free country, so if you don't like it here just leave. Don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out.
It doesn't matter. Yours and other's class envy is pretty lame IMO. Quit your bitching and get off your ass and become those you think are evil(the rich).
They're just greedy, not evil. Besides, I've already been doing exactly what you suggest for 30 years.
Now if you don't want to be rich(monetarily) the STFU about those who are. They pay more than the rest of us serfs and most people who whine about the tax-cuts also don't realize that the G-dDamn Evil Fvcking Rich bastards pay for everyone else's freaking Medicare and such. How many millionaires do you think will see the "fair share" or even close to what they've paid in?
Again, if you don't like it here either STFU or leave and find a better place. After paying my house taxes, my land taxes, my self-employment taxes, my medicare taxes and our state and city sales taxes I pay way more then 50% of my income in taxes. Then Bush wants to start a war after giving a tax break? What a diphead.
I was listening to Bob Brinker this weekend on my drive home and he basically said the same thing. People need to quit wining about the tax-cuts because they worked. They put money into the system when it was needed and raising taxes will do nothing but ruin the recovery that is well on it's way.
Anyway - you are the one who sounds like a parrot. You bleat the same tune that has been spouted here a thousand times before and still isn't based on logic. Pfffttt - you guys make me laugh with your little "anti-rich" BS. Come back when you learn a little about Capitalism and how Investing works.
The economy is well on it's way to recovery? Maybe for the well-off, but not for the rest of us peasants. The plain fact is there are more ways to improve the economy then tax cuts for the wealthy and you idiots can figure it out. By your own logic then increasing incomes for the poor/middle class would mean they are paying more taxes, investing more, and spending more. All good for an economic recovery and guess what? It benifits a lot more people!!
I hope I've put this in a perepective that you pinheads can understand.
They're just greedy, not evil. Besides, I've already been doing exactly what you suggest for 30 years.
Now if you don't want to be rich(monetarily) the STFU about those who are. They pay more than the rest of us serfs and most people who whine about the tax-cuts also don't realize that the G-dDamn Evil Fvcking Rich bastards pay for everyone else's freaking Medicare and such. How many millionaires do you think will see the "fair share" or even close to what they've paid in?
Again, if you don't like it here either STFU or leave and find a better place. After paying my house taxes, my land taxes, my self-employment taxes, my medicare taxes and our state and city sales taxes I pay way more then 50% of my income in taxes. Then Bush wants to start a war after giving a tax break? What a diphead.
I was listening to Bob Brinker this weekend on my drive home and he basically said the same thing. People need to quit wining about the tax-cuts because they worked. They put money into the system when it was needed and raising taxes will do nothing but ruin the recovery that is well on it's way.
Anyway - you are the one who sounds like a parrot. You bleat the same tune that has been spouted here a thousand times before and still isn't based on logic. Pfffttt - you guys make me laugh with your little "anti-rich" BS. Come back when you learn a little about Capitalism and how Investing works.
The economy is well on it's way to recovery? Maybe for the well-off, but not for the rest of us peasants. The plain fact is there are more ways to improve the economy then tax cuts for the wealthy and you idiots can figure it out. By your own logic then increasing incomes for the poor/middle class would mean they are paying more taxes, investing more, and spending more. All good for an economic recovery and guess what? It benifits a lot more people!!
I hope I've put this in a perepective that you pinheads can understand.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
:roll:
This class envy garbage is assinine and there was no disinformation except for the blather spewed by your equally as evious friend. Yes, one can speak of the hypocrisy of the limo libbies and about the class envy whiners. One does nothing but whine and the other yaps about how much they care and about how everyone else should be doing more(while they do little).
The rest of your post is the same old rehashed redistributionist garbage that has spewed from the left for years. Someday you might want to take a look at this in a realistic light instead of your pie in the sky arbitrary "fairness".
People earn money - they should be able to keep it and do with it as they wish
People invest money - they should be able to reap the benifits of putting their money at risk
None of this changes with whether or not someone is "rich" or "poor" but some of you wish to take a bigger chunk from those you arbitrarily say "don't need it as much"
***********
glenn1 - good point
CkG
If you had you way we would still have 10 year olds working 18 hour shifts in dangerous sweatshops as they did in England, or go back to how we mined in Applacia.
Class envy is an invented BS term. Some bastard doesn't have enough heart to help his fellow man and gets called on it?
CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY CLASS ENVY
Give it a rest. If the people in power had their way, you would be living in a shack buying from the company store. We have the standard of living in America because we have both opportunity AND those who resist this country becoming a South American travesty where one group has all the wealth and the others none.
Want to be rich? Well just go out and do it!! THere are thousands upon thousands upon thousands who work more than you or I and harder too just to provide health care, a roof over their kids heads and some food on the table. How many hundreds of hours a day will they have to work to become rich?
What a fantasy. This country can support only so many millionares. It wants more janitors than millionares. Some get there, but not everyone has the real opportunity to do so. If you don't like how this country is run then become king! Just as easy for me to say that.
In the real world this is a Darwinian country. There are wolves and sheep. You cannot always change into a wolf.
This isn't about class envy. It's about some of the sheep not wanting to get eaten. Of course there are sheep who feel bad for the wolf and are standing up for them.
Don't worry about the rich. They have everything they need. They may have to pay more in taxes, but they don't go hungry.
Why dont you use some of that indignation and stand up as much for those who DO go hungry. Not worthy of your concern it seems.
:roll:
First off your ASSumption that my way would be to go back to overworking kids or favoring sweatshops borders on clinically insane but is atleast being intellectually dishonest.
Second - Class envy is not a BS term but it is quite the BS concept, so I suggest those of you who whine about those who have more - either work your way to what you perceive their level to be or STFU and be content with your life and wealth.
Third - It's time for you to sh!t-can that "real opportunity" crap. Even your boy Edwards is living proof that even some "son of a...." Uhhh..."mill worker" can "make it". It's a nice EXCUSE for your class envy but that "real opportunity" BS is just a mental crutch to make you feel better about your envy.
Fourth, no - not everyone will be a wolf but everyone has the opportunity to become one - some choose not to and are content with that. But then again your black/white ASSumption that you have to be eaten or eat is BS also. People have co-existed with "wolves" for years and haven't been "sheep". You only become a "sheep" when you allow yourself to be one and then try to blame the "wolf" for making your a "sheep".
This isn't about someone worrying about the "rich" - this is about the dishonest argument used by those who whine about the rich.
The FACT is - you and yours want to take from the "haves" and give it to the "have-nots" according to your feelings instead of logic.
Yeah, maybe I will use some of my energy to give those, who truly can't help themselves, a hand-up but I will not stand for you and yours confiscating from everyone else to redistribute their money to give a hand-out. You may think of yourselves as a modern day robin-hood but stealing isn't right no matter what "intention" you feign.
Here's a tit-for-tat for you:
Why don't you use some of your class envy and robin-hood mentality to actually help people become self-sufficient instead of stealing from those you think have too much. But yeah, I suppose actually trying to help those people isn't your fight - this is all about those evil fscking rich people....:roll:
CkG
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