99% of school is what you put into it. But it never hurts an application to put a top ten school on it.
whoa, whoa....
software engineering is pretty different from the "real engineering", imo. here, the term is used like you would call someone a "train engineer" or a "social engineer". EE, ME, CE, etc, require way more hard science knowledge than CS. that's why many people don't consider it engineering. at my school, CE is in the school of engineering, while CS is in the college of arts and sciences.
Exactly. Software Engineers don't really "engineer" anything. They write code, they create applications, but they don't "engineer" anything.
UC Berkeley has a computer science department in College of Letters and Science as well... so I hear what you college kids with no industry experience are saying 
To debate whether or not computer science is considered engineering is not really that important to me. Besides, the true origins of computer science of putting logic gates together and building state machines has evolved into what college kids erroneously think is computer science - programming (which I firmly believe you do not need a college degree for - even high school kids can code in C/C++ nowadays)
So instead of arguing (whose victor will inevitably be the one with the most time) I'll just leave the naysayers with 2 questions:
1) Is the term "software engineer" an oxymoron? Because I know and work with plenty of them.
2) What is your definition of an engineer? Answer that without first thinking how that applies to programmers
To debate whether or not computer science is considered engineering is not really that important to me. Besides, the true origins of computer science of putting logic gates together and building state machines has evolved into what college kids erroneously think is computer science - programming (which I firmly believe you do not need a college degree for - even high school kids can code in C/C++ nowadays)
So instead of arguing (whose victor will inevitably be the one with the most time) I'll just leave the naysayers with 2 questions:
1) Is the term "software engineer" an oxymoron? Because I know and work with plenty of them.
2) What is your definition of an engineer? Answer that without first thinking how that applies to programmers
Unfortunately, we have lost some control of the word "engineer". Although people call themselves "software engineers" they are not engineers. However, there are engineers who write software. Nothing really confusing about that.
Engineers are those who, using the principles of physics and mathematics, design and create functional and useful structures, systems and components. An engineering education includes specific training in application of scientific principles to the physical world. Computer Science (as differentiated from Computer Engineering) doesn't have the background in the physical sciences to qualify as engineering.
Engineers are those who, using the principles of physics and mathematics, design and create functional and useful structures, systems and components. An engineering education includes specific training in application of scientific principles to the physical world. Computer Science (as differentiated from Computer Engineering) doesn't have the background in the physical sciences to qualify as engineering.
Or rather, some CS doesn't have the background, and others do but make no use of that knowledge in their field.
If you take out the "physics" in your definition of an engineer, programmers would fit nicely into it. This point is something that can be argued over and over...
But this is for sure, computer science in its original pure form does fit into your definition. Unfortunately, many people (including some colleges) equate computer science with learning programming languages...
"the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people"
From Merriam-Webster.
Thats funny, when I look at www.m-w.com, I get nothing remotely close to that definition.
Allow me to repeat myself... I'm not going to waste time arguing a debate about whether programming is considered engineering. I could care less, as I am a hardware design engineer working on designing the next generation computers (specifically the FSB).
I will state this again: Computer science is not learning programming languages. Community colleges (and the like) have a major called "Computer Science" and its essentially learning OOP and other facets of programming. Top schools like MIT and UC Berkeley have an undergraduate EECS program which incorporates the original computer science - computer architecure, assemblers and compilers, digitial design with state machines and Boolean equations, etc
I originally objected to Ken's statement because he does not have the academic background in computer science to be dismissing the entire field as non-engineering
Originally posted by: calbear2000
UC Berkeley has a computer science department in College of Letters and Science as well... so I hear what you college kids with no industry experience are saying
To debate whether or not computer science is considered engineering is not really that important to me. Besides, the true origins of computer science of putting logic gates together and building state machines has evolved into what college kids erroneously think is computer science - programming (which I firmly believe you do not need a college degree for - even high school kids can code in C/C++ nowadays)
So instead of arguing (whose victor will inevitably be the one with the most time) I'll just leave the naysayers with 2 questions:
1) Is the term "software engineer" an oxymoron? Because I know and work with plenty of them.
2) What is your definition of an engineer? Answer that without first thinking how that applies to programmers
1. no. neither is social engineer or train engineer. BUT, that is a different usage than the one when people say "college of engineering".
2. there are multiple definitions, but for compsci it is more the former than the latter (in the above).
only a fool would think computer science is programming... but just because it is not doesn't mean it is a form of engineering in the spirit of EE, ME, CE, etc. it is a form of engineering in that you design and create things, yes. but you don't call a statistician a "statistics engineer" because it sounds too much like EE or ME and the usage of "engineer" is different.
any school worth its salt will incorporate state machine, etc etc into its CS program. but that is just to give you a background. if you really want to get more into computer architecture, perhaps you should be looking at CE and not CS.
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: calbear2000
UC Berkeley has a computer science department in College of Letters and Science as well... so I hear what you college kids with no industry experience are saying
To debate whether or not computer science is considered engineering is not really that important to me. Besides, the true origins of computer science of putting logic gates together and building state machines has evolved into what college kids erroneously think is computer science - programming (which I firmly believe you do not need a college degree for - even high school kids can code in C/C++ nowadays)
So instead of arguing (whose victor will inevitably be the one with the most time) I'll just leave the naysayers with 2 questions:
1) Is the term "software engineer" an oxymoron? Because I know and work with plenty of them.
2) What is your definition of an engineer? Answer that without first thinking how that applies to programmers
1. no. neither is social engineer or train engineer. BUT, that is a different usage than the one when people say "college of engineering".
2. there are multiple definitions, but for compsci it is more the former than the latter (in the above).
only a fool would think computer science is programming... but just because it is not doesn't mean it is a form of engineering in the spirit of EE, ME, CE, etc. it is a form of engineering in that you design and create things, yes. but you don't call a statistician a "statistics engineer" because it sounds too much like EE or ME and the usage of "engineer" is different.
any school worth its salt will incorporate state machine, etc etc into its CS program. but that is just to give you a background. if you really want to get more into computer architecture, perhaps you should be looking at CE and not CS.
Berkeley and MIT do not offer "computer engineering" degrees.
Only this new breed of schools offer this cop-out major because learning how a CPU works is too much to intake along with learning how to program for their students
If you want real computer science, you have to either enroll into a Berkeley or MIT EECS-like program or take this "computer engineering" major at another university which brainwashes you into believing that learning how to design a CPU is not a part of computer science and that programming is
Berkeley and MIT do not offer "computer engineering" degrees.
Only this new breed of schools offer this cop-out major because learning how a CPU works is too much to intake along with learning how to program for their students
If you want real computer science, you have to either enroll into a Berkeley or MIT EECS-like program or take this "computer engineering" major at another university which brainwashes you into believing that learning how to design a CPU is not a part of computer science and that programming is
um no, of the top 10 schools in computer science, probably (i don't have the time to look this up) ONLY those two schools have EECS. MOST other universities have separate degree programs.
and as i mentioned earlier, computer science programs do teach you digital design, etc etc. but if you are really interested in that, CE is probably a better route for you.
Originally posted by: gopunk
Berkeley and MIT do not offer "computer engineering" degrees.
Only this new breed of schools offer this cop-out major because learning how a CPU works is too much to intake along with learning how to program for their students
If you want real computer science, you have to either enroll into a Berkeley or MIT EECS-like program or take this "computer engineering" major at another university which brainwashes you into believing that learning how to design a CPU is not a part of computer science and that programming is
um no, of the top 10 schools in computer science, probably (i don't have the time to look this up) ONLY those two schools have EECS. MOST other universities have separate degree programs.
and as i mentioned earlier, computer science programs do teach you digital design, etc etc. but if you are really interested in that, CE is probably a better route for you.
Um, yes
If you listened Darby
I said real computer science is taught at a Berkeley or MIT EECS like program OR under a "computer engineering" major at another university. But just be aware of the pitfall in majoring in "computer engineering" Originally posted by: calbear2000
Berkeley and MIT do not offer "computer engineering" degrees.
Only this new breed of schools offer this cop-out major because learning how a CPU works is too much to intake along with learning how to program for their students
If you want real computer science, you have to either enroll into a Berkeley or MIT EECS-like program or take this "computer engineering" major at another university which brainwashes you into believing that learning how to design a CPU is not a part of computer science and that programming is
Hey, careful by saying that all uni's which offer CompE have a cop out CS major. I go to UIUC, and UIUC is by no means a school with one of the cop-out CS majors, yet, we offer a Comp E degree. The difference between the CS and CompE here is that CS is heavy emphisis on theory with an understanding of how to build a basic computer, and CompE is heavy emphisis on how to build a computer with a rudimentory knowledge of programming/cs theory.
Or if your like me, you can take CS and take a sub route which gets you heavy emphisis on Architecture and learn all about everything most CompE's know
Intel hires people from lesser-known schools all the time. True, recruiting isn't as high, but the company will find the talent and vice-versa...
Originally posted by: shikhan
Originally posted by: calbear2000
Berkeley and MIT do not offer "computer engineering" degrees.
Only this new breed of schools offer this cop-out major because learning how a CPU works is too much to intake along with learning how to program for their students
If you want real computer science, you have to either enroll into a Berkeley or MIT EECS-like program or take this "computer engineering" major at another university which brainwashes you into believing that learning how to design a CPU is not a part of computer science and that programming is
Hey, careful by saying that all uni's which offer CompE have a cop out CS major. I go to UIUC, and UIUC is by no means a school with one of the cop-out CS majors, yet, we offer a Comp E degree. The difference between the CS and CompE here is that CS is heavy emphisis on theory with an understanding of how to build a basic computer, and CompE is heavy emphisis on how to build a computer with a rudimentory knowledge of programming/cs theory.
Or if your like me, you can take CS and take a sub route which gets you heavy emphisis on Architecture and learn all about everything most CompE's know
I guess my smiley's after my sarcastic comments still managed to offend someone eh?
Um, yes
If you listened Darby
um no again. instead of bantering, i will just have you look at the UW's cs program degree reqs:
http://www.cs.washington.edu/education/ugrad/prospective/prospectiveforms.html
Originally posted by: gopunk
Um, yes
If you listened Darby
um no again. instead of bantering, i will just have you look at the UW's cs program degree reqs:
http://www.cs.washington.edu/education/ugrad/prospective/prospectiveforms.html
No offense, but that looks kinda weak.
Originally posted by: gopunk
Um, yes
If you listened Darby
um no again. instead of bantering, i will just have you look at the UW's cs program degree reqs:
http://www.cs.washington.edu/education/ugrad/prospective/prospectiveforms.html
Didn't bother to look at it
Franky, I don't feel like looking through a bunch of course requirements to see if UW's CS program is on par with Berkeley or MIT's EECS programs. If it is, good for you You can teach others what real computer science is Originally posted by: shikhan
Originally posted by: gopunk
Um, yes
If you listened Darby
um no again. instead of bantering, i will just have you look at the UW's cs program degree reqs:
http://www.cs.washington.edu/education/ugrad/prospective/prospectiveforms.html
No offense, but that looks kinda weak.
what part?
i was looking at the CS grad requirements... The inner core seems to be kidn of weak, and having to pick only four from the outer core list. This may be because the amounts of credits needed in stuff like Visual, Literary, and Performing Arts (20 hours?? Thats almost as much the inner core requires you!). Unless I missed somethign in my brief glance, it puts /too/ much emphisis on gen ed. Hell, the "Area's of Knowledge" have more credits than the entire CS specific line. Uck.
Edit
However, the CE course is something that looks much better balanced than their CS course.
Edit
However, the CE course is something that looks much better balanced than their CS course.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter