In Ruling Against Trump, Judge Defines Anticorruption Clauses in Constitution for First Time

[SNC]

No, in the end Congress and the voters decide if saying no was okay.

As for why it matters - the crazies will never stop. If you’re just supposed to provide whatever is asked for then why stop with a birth certificate? Those can be forged, after all. Then he should get a forensic guy to verify its authenticity. Oh, he did? Well we should investigate his background because he could be a Democrat operative. Etc, etc, etc, forever. Should Hillary Clinton have led investigators on a tour of that pizza place to show there were no child prostitutes in it?

The job is to be the president, not to be a personal research service for insane or dishonest people. Once his eligibility was certified by the appropriate authorities he should have refused all further requests.

If Trump releases his tax returns will you be satisfied with them as they are or will you make some claim that they are fixed? Because I know I will not believe them, there has been way to much time since the request, who knows what could have been changed. I think your missing my point though. O did not release his BC, just as T will not be the one releasing his tax returns if they are are. They both have people for that, O didn't ask M to pull his BC from the filing cabinet so he could show the world it, just as T would not have them with is sock and skivvies, he will make a call and say to his people, release them. I get it that you have to pull the D line, but the harder you pull it the harder the R line has to be pulled. How do we stop pulling against each other and start pushing everyone forward?.

 

[SNC]

Keep in mind that Obama was not only reluctant to entertain racist conspiracy theory nuts by showing his birth certificate, but knew that it wasn't likely to satisfy them -- much in the same way as NASA footage of Earth doesn't satisfy flat Earth types.

Do you think that if he had released it within in a day of being asked, would it have made a difference? I really believe that the length of time it took was the fuel most used.

 

[fskimospy]

Do you think that if he had released it within in a day of being asked, would it have made a difference? I really believe that the length of time it took was the fuel most used.

He released it within three days of being asked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Origins_of_the_claims

Do you maybe want to reconsider your position?

 

[fskimospy]

If Trump releases his tax returns will you be satisfied with them as they are or will you make some claim that they are fixed? Because I know I will not believe them, there has been way to much time since the request, who knows what could have been changed.

Yes, I would be 100% satisfied that they are authentic. All he has to do is direct the IRS to release them so they wouldn't come from him anyway.

I think your missing my point though. O did not release his BC, just as T will not be the one releasing his tax returns if they are are. They both have people for that, O didn't ask M to pull his BC from the filing cabinet so he could show the world it, just as T would not have them with is sock and skivvies, he will make a call and say to his people, release them. I get it that you have to pull the D line, but the harder you pull it the harder the R line has to be pulled. How do we stop pulling against each other and start pushing everyone forward?.

I get your point, I think you are missing mine though, which is that you have not adequately considered the consequences of this. So great, Obama releases his extra super duper long form birth certificate. He's an open book! Now conservatives want to see his tax returns - which is fine, he's an open book! Conservatives then say well what about your other banking records? Where's your checking account statement? Maybe from there they uncover that Obama signed up for a porn site or something and now that's a big national scandal. (and you know it would have been)

No one... absolutely no one is so squeaky clean that given enough time and resources dishonest and disreputable people won't be able to find something in your background to blow into some scandal or controversy. Every president should ask themselves if a records request is 1) made in good faith and 2) pertinent to your ability to do the job. Asking for Obama's birth certificate, while obviously borne out of racism, is in fact a valid question to ask. He answered it almost immediately with the standard of proof that's accepted all over the country. He ignored the later requests for a 'long form' certificate because they were both meaningless and made in bad faith. That's the right standard. Trump should release his tax returns because his financial interests directly relate to his ability to do the job. He's been dodging that for three years now. This isn't about Democrat or Republican, this is about basic good governance and the standard is the same for both parties.

 

[SNC]

He released it within three days of being asked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Origins_of_the_claims

Do you maybe want to reconsider your position?

Memory was fuzzy, I was thinking it there was a much greater time between the ask and the deliver. It no doubt was the sort/long vs real/fake issue that I was conflating,
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa. It is possible that I was so fixated on being such a good Right Winger that I failed to fully examine what was being presented. I have over the last several years started to look more at things and not just take them at face value, something that there is not time to do for past events.

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[SNC]

Yes, I would be 100% satisfied that they are authentic. All he has to do is direct the IRS to release them so they wouldn't come from him anyway.



I get your point, I think you are missing mine though, which is that you have not adequately considered the consequences of this. So great, Obama releases his extra super duper long form birth certificate. He's an open book! Now conservatives want to see his tax returns - which is fine, he's an open book! Conservatives then say well what about your other banking records? Where's your checking account statement? Maybe from there they uncover that Obama signed up for a porn site or something and now that's a big national scandal. (and you know it would have been)

No one... absolutely no one is so squeaky clean that given enough time and resources dishonest and disreputable people won't be able to find something in your background to blow into some scandal or controversy. Every president should ask themselves if a records request is 1) made in good faith and 2) pertinent to your ability to do the job. Asking for Obama's birth certificate, while obviously borne out of racism, is in fact a valid question to ask. He answered it almost immediately with the standard of proof that's accepted all over the country. He ignored the later requests for a 'long form' certificate because they were both meaningless and made in bad faith. That's the right standard. Trump should release his tax returns because his financial interests directly relate to his ability to do the job. He's been dodging that for three years now. This isn't about Democrat or Republican, this is about basic good governance and the standard is the same for both parties.

I think we are in agreement here, progress!

 

[fskimospy]

I think we are in agreement here, progress!

Hooray!

 

[Zorba]

So its you who gets to decide when it's OK to say no? What does it matter if the crazies want another one?

Obama released the short form BC as soon as the nutter shit started. Hawaii doesn't provide copies of the long form for anyone. The nutters decided that since he didn't still have his original it must all be fake.

Hawaii finally did provide a copy of the long form and people were still calling it fake.

Also, the whole thing was based on a technicality anyways if his mom had been one year older or he had been born 2 years later, he could've been born anywhere in the world and still been born a citizen.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Memory was fuzzy, I was thinking it there was a much greater time between the ask and the deliver. It no doubt was the sort/long vs real/fake issue that I was conflating,
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa. It is possible that I was so fixated on being such a good Right Winger that I failed to fully examine what was being presented. I have over the last several years started to look more at things and not just take them at face value, something that there is not time to do for past events.

That is the type of affect that sustained propaganda has on human minds. The feeling of isolation that people often say social media brings is I think another aspect. I'm not sure if it actually does or not (or if it comes from somewhere else, I think social media actually just highlights how isolated people actually are, by showing them how many other people there are to connect with - and seeing that people they know might know a lot of other people so they realize they're actually a much smaller part of their life than they knew before, they go from blissful ignorance to "oh, I'm not the center of the universe after all").

Cults full on do explicitly this type of stuff (isolate, and then constantly push propaganda) because it breaks human minds (seriously, it works on just about everyone, given a long enough time). Its also why we're realizing that police interrogations (and interrogations in general) following a very similar manner are actually not good support when the person caves and confesses. Only there, they're doing it out of duress, while in the former they often push positive stuff (or give people an enemy or evil to unite against).

I know its easy to hear "you're brainwashed" and dismiss it as general rhetoric (because you hear that in the opposite direction), but that's literally what has happened to a lot of people. And yes it happens both ways, but it absolutely is far more prominent on the right. I think why a lot of them feel that America is betraying them is because by and large we have not let a lot of their "us vs them" propaganda go unchecked, when in the past it would.