In order for ACA to work, uninsured should get no treatment.

[Herr Kutz]

No, many of us are covered under our parents. I'm 23, which means I have like another year before I have to get out on my own for insurance.

I think that option is available until age 26.

 

[Paul98]

And what if they can't get coverage, just let them die.... Come on guys we need a system that works. What we did have was shit, what we have now is also shit though at least addressed some issues while making others.

ER visits and treatments are expensive. Prevention and normal doctor visits are not. Our healthcare and insurance systems suck and don't make any sense. This is not a simple problem and won't take a simple solution. But we need to continue to work on making things better.

 

[schneiderguy]

In order for ACA to work, uninsured should get no treatment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason that the ACA was passed was so that the uninsured could get treatment?

Whatever happened to "healthcare is a right"? I'm so confused.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And what if they can't get coverage, just let them die.... Come on guys we need a system that works. What we did have was shit, what we have now is also shit though at least addressed some issues while making others.

ER visits and treatments are expensive. Prevention and normal doctor visits are not. Our healthcare and insurance systems suck and don't make any sense. This is not a simple problem and won't take a simple solution. But we need to continue to work on making things better.

It has been demonstrated time and again on these boards that we do not want to make things better. We want to be either thrown to the wolves or let the ignorant lead us by the nose. There is little support for a third option.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason that the ACA was passed was so that the uninsured could get treatment?

Whatever happened to "healthcare is a right"? I'm so confused.

It was a right when it was someone else's agenda. Now it's not.

 

[BUnit1701]

It was a right when it was someone else's agenda. Now it's not.

It's a right, one you are FORCED to pay for...

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

And what if they can't get coverage, just let them die.... Come on guys we need a system that works. What we did have was shit, what we have now is also shit though at least addressed some issues while making others.

ER visits and treatments are expensive. Prevention and normal doctor visits are not. Our healthcare and insurance systems suck and don't make any sense. This is not a simple problem and won't take a simple solution. But we need to continue to work on making things better.

Parties working together in the first place would have been a good start. I'm afraid nothing will happen until everyone starts gnawing on their mandate shit sandwich a bit before they figure out they're actually eating a shit sandwich and start screaming at the top of their lungs. When this starts happening, Democrats will be looking for help from Republicans to get that mandate to smell and taste a little better...but for some odd reason, I highly doubt Republicans will be in a helpful mood and expect them only to offer repeal along with some stopgap legislation.

The smartest thing Republicans can do right now is to let Obamacare take its course.

 

[dank69]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason that the ACA was passed was so that the uninsured could get treatment?

Whatever happened to "healthcare is a right"? I'm so confused.

You got trolled. Happens to the best of us.

 

[drebo]

Might have something to do with the ER becoming the de facto check up location for millions of freeloaders who would rather others be responsible for their well being.
Turns out ERs aren't meant for that. Doesn't make financial or practical sense.

And you think that will change?

The answer is no.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

And you think that will change?

The answer is no.

Apparently he's not getting it yet...give him a little time.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's a right, one you are FORCED to pay for...

What this is about is who wins. There are a whole host of potential solutions, but only two ideas are possible. One is the Republican one and the other is the Democratic "cure" and I use that word rather contemptuously. What must happen at all costs is that one side defeat the other. So one side comes up with a "fix" which isn't about health care (although I do believe that health care access is important) and all other ideas are to be ignored. The Republicans response is to oppose whatever the Democrats propose. It's not about more people getting quality care, it's about who dictates. It's not about making more people better it's about establishing something, anything, and circling the wagons.

If you don't know me, I've been in health care for a very long time and I see what has and hasn't worked, and how things with good intentions went wrong and at best give mediocre benefit because some entity doesn't get it. That could be business or government.

Heh, I'm not a liberal, I'm a health care radical. I want things done with intelligence and foresight by those who's interests aren't in how a stock performs or how their party is positioned for the next election.

Careful examination, careful consideration, passionate AND intelligent reform and implementation.

No one wants that. No one.

 

[dank69]

What this is about is who wins. There are a whole host of potential solutions, but only two ideas are possible. One is the Republican one and the other is the Democratic "cure" and I use that word rather contemptuously. What must happen at all costs is that one side defeat the other. So one side comes up with a "fix" which isn't about health care (although I do believe that health care access is important) and all other ideas are to be ignored. The Republicans response is to oppose whatever the Democrats propose. It's not about more people getting quality care, it's about who dictates. It's not about making more people better it's about establishing something, anything, and circling the wagons.

If you don't know me, I've been in health care for a very long time and I see what has and hasn't worked, and how things with good intentions went wrong and at best give mediocre benefit because some entity doesn't get it. That could be business or government.

Heh, I'm not a liberal, I'm a health care radical. I want things done with intelligence and foresight by those who's interests aren't in how a stock performs or how their party is positioned for the next election.

Careful examination, careful consideration, passionate AND intelligent reform and implementation.

No one wants that. No one.

I still don't understand how the ACA makes things worse.

 

[Tom]

I think the fact that hospitals are required to provide treatment to all regardless of ability to pay is the primary reason why ACA is bullshit and not necessary.

Why change that? Everyone who needs medical care already has access.

Why pad the pockets of middlemen?

Emergency room doesn't treat illness unless you're near death.

And who do you think pays for the uninsured care in the emergency room ?

 

[drebo]

I still don't understand how the ACA makes things worse.

It limits profits for insurance companies, requires everyone to use insurance companies (seriously, you don't see a problem here?) and forces people to do something that should be a choice.

ACA has absolutely nothing to do with increasing the availability of HEALTHCARE. ACA's only purpose is to allow politicians to say "look, we tried."

The point is that ACA is hugely expensive for the government and the tax payer and accomplishes absolutely nothing.

 

[drebo]

Emergency room doesn't treat illness unless you're near death.

And who do you think pays for the uninsured care in the emergency room ?

That's my fucking point. Are you stupid or something?

Insurance or not, ability to pay or not, people have access to healthcare when they need it. ACA does nothing to improve (or even change) that.

 

[Tom]

What this is about is who wins. There are a whole host of potential solutions, but only two ideas are possible. One is the Republican one and the other is the Democratic "cure" and I use that word rather contemptuously. What must happen at all costs is that one side defeat the other. So one side comes up with a "fix" which isn't about health care (although I do believe that health care access is important) and all other ideas are to be ignored. The Republicans response is to oppose whatever the Democrats propose. It's not about more people getting quality care, it's about who dictates. It's not about making more people better it's about establishing something, anything, and circling the wagons.

If you don't know me, I've been in health care for a very long time and I see what has and hasn't worked, and how things with good intentions went wrong and at best give mediocre benefit because some entity doesn't get it. That could be business or government.

Heh, I'm not a liberal, I'm a health care radical. I want things done with intelligence and foresight by those who's interests aren't in how a stock performs or how their party is positioned for the next election.

Careful examination, careful consideration, passionate AND intelligent reform and implementation.

No one wants that. No one.

You've set up a false dichotomy. Obamacare is a compromise of both the Republican and Democrat's ideas for healthcare.

Its incomplete, but its a start. Don't buy into the crap the Republicans say about Obamacare, they are doing it to try and win elections, not because they believe what they are saying.

They do the same thing with guns, which Democrats aren't taking away, and abortion, which the Republicans aren't going to stop.

Oh, and deficits, which they don't care about at all, and tax cuts, which they do care about, but only for people who can afford to make big political contributions.

 

[dank69]

It limits profits for insurance companies,

GASP! Terrible! We wouldn't want to place limits on how rich people can get by exploiting sick people!

requires everyone to use insurance companies (seriously, you don't see a problem here?) and forces people to do something that should be a choice.

Seriously. No I don't. Carry health insurance like every sane human being so when you get hurt or sick you don't force the rest of us to pay for it. Regardless, the individual mandate will NOT make healthcare more expensive.

ACA has absolutely nothing to do with increasing the availability of HEALTHCARE. ACA's only purpose is to allow politicians to say "look, we tried."

Tell that to the millions with pre-existing conditions that can now get affordable insurance.

The point is that ACA is hugely expensive for the government and the tax payer and accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Actually I think CBO estimates ACA to be a net savings once fully implemented.

 

[dank69]

That's my fucking point. Are you stupid or something?

Insurance or not, ability to pay or not, people have access to healthcare when they need it. ACA does nothing to improve (or even change) that.

People need healthcare even when they aren't near death. They also treat all injuries regardless of how close to death you are. Also, if you are near death and get treated at ER without health insurance you are now going to be bankrupt and the rest of us will pay your bill.

 

[HumblePie]

ACA does nothing at this point to address the actual problems with the huge cost of healthcare in the country.

Even if every single American was on the same insurance, that wouldn't lower the cost of healthcare at all. It would make it cheaper for some people who are currently paying higher premiums for various reasons, but it would drop the actual COST of healthcare inherent in the system. Even if we had a single payer system it wouldn't solve the problem.

Until anyone can call any American hospital and ask how much it costs for a knee joint replacement and get the actual cost told to them to the dime over the phone.... the ACA is just making things worse. Hint hint, you can do the above in just about every single first world country right now. Call up a hospital in Europe, many in Central or South America, Asia, or Africa. Any good hospital will tell you exactly what their costs are and what procedures they provide. Do that in America and you won't get an answer.

 

[dank69]

ACA does nothing at this point to address the actual problems with the huge cost of healthcare in the country.

Even if every single American was on the same insurance, that wouldn't lower the cost of healthcare at all. It would make it cheaper for some people who are currently paying higher premiums for various reasons, but it would drop the actual COST of healthcare inherent in the system. Even if we had a single payer system it wouldn't solve the problem.

Until anyone can call any American hospital and ask how much it costs for a knee joint replacement and get the actual cost told to them to the dime over the phone.... the ACA is just making things worse. Hint hint, you can do the above in just about every single first world country right now. Call up a hospital in Europe, many in Central or South America, Asia, or Africa. Any good hospital will tell you exactly what their costs are and what procedures they provide. Do that in America and you won't get an answer.

Great. ACA doesn't fix anything, but if we are to believe Republicans it is the single biggest disaster in the history of the United States. Worse than slavery, civil war, world wars or financial crashes. I just want to understand how this law makes things worse than they are now. After all, it is so detrimental to our future that the Tea Party would rather crash the entire world economy than let it go into effect.

 

[Tom]

That's my fucking point. Are you stupid or something?

Insurance or not, ability to pay or not, people have access to healthcare when they need it. ACA does nothing to improve (or even change) that.

No, they don't have access when they need it. Real people die because they can't get care.

Many diseases require continuing treatment, and early detection, neither of which happens when the only option is the emergency room.

And getting care in the emergency room is about the most expensive, least efficient means to deliver healthcare. And the costs aren't paid for by the person who should pay for it, they're paid for by everybody else.

Which is unfair and expensive.

The ACA does change all of that, maybe not as much as it should, but it could go a long way.

 

[ultimatebob]

Have you see what ER visits cost without insurance?? Trust me, that will be punishment enough. Those dumb kids will be begging for Obamacare after they get that bill in the mail.

 

[drebo]

GASP! Terrible! We wouldn't want to place limits on how rich people can get by exploiting sick people!

You mean how rich people can get when the government forces people to buy their product?

Aren't you one of the people that rails against local telco franchise monopolies? What's the difference here?

Oh, right. You're just a fucking hypocrite.

 

[drebo]

No, they don't have access when they need it. Real people die because they can't get care.

Many diseases require continuing treatment, and early detection, neither of which happens when the only option is the emergency room.

And getting care in the emergency room is about the most expensive, least efficient means to deliver healthcare. And the costs aren't paid for by the person who should pay for it, they're paid for by everybody else.

Which is unfair and expensive.

The ACA does change all of that, maybe not as much as it should, but it could go a long way.

If they don't "get care" when they need it, they're either stupid, lazy, or live so far out that they'd probably have died anyway.

The fact remains (it is irrefutable) that health care is available to anyone who wants it, any time they want it, and without concern of their ability to pay.

ACA does not improve those conditions or change that fact.

 

[dank69]

If they don't "get care" when they need it, they're either stupid, lazy, or live so far out that they'd probably have died anyway.

The fact remains (it is irrefutable) that health care is available to anyone who wants it, any time they want it, and without concern of their ability to pay.

ACA does not improve those conditions or change that fact.

No, it just forces you to pay for your own.