In market for high capacity MP3 Player -- suggestions welcome

[tmchow]

Looking for a high capacity MP3 player (at least 20GB). I'm obvisouly considering the iPod but am not sure about the alternatives. Suggestions welcome. Just give me the make, model and why you think it's better than an Ipod. I can do my own research stemming from the suggestions.

Also, while I'm at it, does anyone have a link that describes the difference between the ipods and the different generations?

 

[Gurck]

I'm of the controversial opinion that all players are better than the ipod. Watch how quickly someone, likely with liberal use of AOL acronyms, posts here solely to insult me & namecall (while completely ignoring your question), I give it 10 minutes at most 😉 Anywho, which player is best for you depends on your priorities; what's your budget? Is 20gb sufficient, or would you rather have 40 (or even 60+)? How highly do you value price per gb, sound quality and features such as a radio tuner and radio/voice recording?

 

[tiap]

Originally posted by: tmchow
Looking for a high capacity MP3 player (at least 20GB). I'm obvisouly considering the iPod but am not sure about the alternatives. Suggestions welcome. Just give me the make, model and why you think it's better than an Ipod. I can do my own research stemming from the suggestions.

Also, while I'm at it, does anyone have a link that describes the difference between the ipods and the different generations?

Do you only want to use mp3?

 

[Hyperlite]

Creative Zen Xtra 30GB @ $188 from mwave.com

 

[tmchow]

1) Only need MP3 support. It's the only format that i'm (relatively) sure that will insulate me if I jump ship to another player in the future.

2) prefer larger than 20GB, 40GB is great. My MP3 collection right now is around 15GB, and I can see that growing and growing, and growing. you get the point 🙂

3) One of the reasons I like the Ipod so much is the sheer number of accessories for it. The fact that BMW and other car manufacturers are buildign connection options and docks in their cars is a huge plus for me. I can imagine plugging my ipod at home to listen to tunes, when i leave the house, i plug it into my car, and then when I get to work I can hook it up there too.

 

[Gurck]

Unless you have a BMW, 3) is pretty much a moot point. If you have a head unit in your car with an auxiliary input, a cable, and an hour or two, you can hook up any player with a line out. You can even run the wire under the carpet for a professional look, though it's unfortunate that BMW integrates volume control and such into the steering wheel exclusively for the ipod, what a waste.. 🙁 Most of the accessories available for the ipod are things included with other players, such as an FM tuner, recording and a case, for instance. Sounds to me like a 40gb player would be to your liking. If budget's a concern, you can get the 40gb Creative Zen Xtra in the low $200s, if not, the iAudio M3 and iRiver h320 are two good higher end, feature packed players. There are more options in the 20gb field; the Rio Karma is generally considered one of the best (if not the best outright) for sound quality and has a network dock to hook it up to your home network for playing & transferring purposes... The iAudio 20gb M3 is smaller than the ipod, and comes in a 20gb M3L flavor (same size as the 40gb version and the ipod) which has something like 40 hour battery life, sick stuff.

 

[imported_Kensai]

Go iPod. 😉

 

[H2Opolodude]

ipod i have a 20 and love it

 

[tmchow]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Unless you have a BMW, 3) is pretty much a moot point. If you have a head unit in your car with an auxiliary input, a cable, and an hour or two, you can hook up any player with a line out. You can even run the wire under the carpet for a professional look, though it's unfortunate that BMW integrates volume control and such into the steering wheel exclusively for the ipod, what a waste.. 🙁 Most of the accessories available for the ipod are things included with other players, such as an FM tuner, recording and a case, for instance. Sounds to me like a 40gb player would be to your liking. If budget's a concern, you can get the 40gb Creative Zen Xtra in the low $200s, if not, the iAudio M3 and iRiver h320 are two good higher end, feature packed players. There are more options in the 20gb field; the Rio Karma is generally considered one of the best (if not the best outright) for sound quality and has a network dock to hook it up to your home network for playing & transferring purposes... The iAudio 20gb M3 is smaller than the ipod, and comes in a 20gb M3L flavor (same size as the 40gb version and the ipod) which has something like 40 hour battery life, sick stuff.

Gurck, in my research on the forums I notice you are totally anti-ipod.. I'm pretty sure I'm under understating that a bit 🙂 I totally get that you hate the Ipod. But the reviews I read don't indicate any of the players you mentioned are better than the ipod and many are even worse.

 

[imported_rod]

20GB. Thats about 10,000 songs (3minute @ 128/44). If you do the maths, that's 20 days of non stop music. Why does anyone need this much? The only reason I can think of is other data types (EG photos on the iPod photo), or moving huge amounts of data between computers. A 4GB ipod mini is way more than enough for me. I would have gotten the 1GB shuffle, except i wanted a screen.

There is a reason the iPod is the market leader. It has great sound quality, looks great, easy to use, and is decently affordable.

Also, be careful about SONY 'MP3' players. As far as i know, they use sonys "ATRAC3" format, that is slightly better than MP3 but it requires you to have two copies of each song on your computer (one MP3 copy and one ATRAC3 copy).

Originally posted by: Gurck
it's unfortunate that BMW integrates volume control and such into the steering wheel exclusively for the ipod, what a waste

As I understand it, the volume control is for the cars audio system, so it works with the radio and CDs, not just the iPod.

RoD

 

[akugami]

Ipods are not as bad as Gurck makes them out to be. Look, iPods aren't the most feature rich out there but they have a really nice and intuitive control system. Yes, some people don't like the scroll wheel but those seem to be the minority. Yes, there are other control systems that work just as well, though I've yet to use an MP3 player whose menu system is as good as the iPod's. These are personal opinions so don't go spouting "such and such's control is better than the iPods" for those who hate iPods. It's still a top of the line MP3 player. Is it the best feature wise? Not by a long shot these days but that doesn't mean it's total crap.

There is one major feature missing IMHO and that's a user changeable equalizer. The only other thing that would be really nice is a larger color display and the ability to play video but that is merely a wish. If you wish for a portable video player, the Playstation Portable is a better for that due to a larger screen. I know some people want FM reception but honestly, I rarely listen to the radio. Most of the music stations suck and about the only thing I listen to is sports radio. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any major feature besides an equalizer and the ability to play video that I'd really want on an MP3 player that isn't available already on an iPod.

Are iPods the best bang for the buck? No. Are they good MP3 players? Yes. Are the sound audiophile quality? No. Are they decent enough for the great unwashed masses? Yes.

And btw Gurck, for someone with a link saying iSheep, it's kinda ironic that person has a Windows based system. Just like 90% of the computer using population.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: rod
Also, be careful about SONY 'MP3' players. As far as i know, they use sonys "ATRAC3" format, that is slightly better than MP3 but it requires you to have two copies of each song on your computer (one MP3 copy and one ATRAC3 copy).
RoD

A friend of mine got a Sony mp3 player, it wasn't quite as bad as you say, since they included a program to convert the mp3's on the fly, worked both ways, so as long as you used this program, it'd just convert in whichever way you moved the mp3's.

Of course, this would result in further loss of sound quality, so it still sucks, and what REALLY sucked was the fact that the codec used was incredibly slow.
On a 2 GHz AXP it took roughly 2-3 hours to load 1 GB of mp3's.
Granted, some of this time was my friend deciding which songs to include, but I'd say that was no more than 20 minutes of the total time.

PITA.

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: rod
Also, be careful about SONY 'MP3' players. As far as i know, they use sonys "ATRAC3" format, that is slightly better than MP3 but it requires you to have two copies of each song on your computer (one MP3 copy and one ATRAC3 copy).

The older NW-HD1 model only played ATRAC, but the newer NW-HD3 and soon-to-be-released NW-HD5 play both MP3 and ATRAC. The NW-HD5 looks quite nice, actually, with supposedly amazing battery life, but I've heard nothing positive about Sony's Connect software for managing songs.

 

[powerMarkymark]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
Creative Zen Xtra 30GB @ $188 from mwave.com

I have the Creative Zen Xtra 40GB and I love it.

I have Aux in on the head in my car and it sounds awesome.

M@rc

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
Creative Zen Xtra 30GB @ $188 from mwave.com

Yeah, I have a 30GB Zen. They're great! Made by Creative, maker of the Audigy 2 sound card, so you know the sound quality's gotta be great. Plus, it's really cheap and holds a lot of stuff 😀

 

[Excelsior]

If you can wait just a few weeks, I suggest the iAudio X5.

Here is a preliminary review.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: tmchow
Gurck, in my research on the forums I notice you are totally anti-ipod.. I'm pretty sure I'm under understating that a bit 🙂 I totally get that you hate the Ipod. But the reviews I read don't indicate any of the players you mentioned are better than the ipod and many are even worse.

Reviews indicate AOL is a great ISP as well, and going by numbers would back that up, as it's the most popular. If you're dead-set on getting the ipod, which you apparently are, why even post?

Originally posted by: rod
There is a reason the iPod is the market leader. It has great sound quality, looks great, easy to use, and is decently affordable.

It's among the worst in sound quality, looks like a child's toy and is among the most expensive... but hey, what does reality know? 😉

Originally posted by: rod

Originally posted by: Gurck
it's unfortunate that BMW integrates volume control and such into the steering wheel exclusively for the ipod, what a waste

As I understand it, the volume control is for the cars audio system, so it works with the radio and CDs, not just the iPod.

Point being that the whole setup will work only with the ipod and not any real players.

Originally posted by: akugami
And btw Gurck, for someone with a link saying iSheep, it's kinda ironic that person has a Windows based system. Just like 90% of the computer using population.

Couldn't let it go without an attack, could ya? You admit it's a sucky player in your post but endorse it anyway, likely because you watch too much TV or follow fashion, and couldn't let me state factual information about it without an attack 😉 God, I hate children. Btw please suggest an OS which will handle all of my games. I'm waiting 😉

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
Creative Zen Xtra 30GB @ $188 from mwave.com

Yeah, I have a 30GB Zen. They're great! Made by Creative, maker of the Audigy 2 sound card, so you know the sound quality's gotta be great. Plus, it's really cheap and holds a lot of stuff 😀

Somehow I find that comment kinda amusing. 😉

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
Creative Zen Xtra 30GB @ $188 from mwave.com

Yeah, I have a 30GB Zen. They're great! Made by Creative, maker of the Audigy 2 sound card, so you know the sound quality's gotta be great. Plus, it's really cheap and holds a lot of stuff 😀

Somehow I find that comment kinda amusing. 😉

Creative cards aren't the POSs a lot of people make them out to be. I agree they're overpriced and that I don't particularly like Creative's way of doing business. Also sucks that the Audigys resample everything that goes through them. But they are clean sounding cards, and (when supported) do offload some processing from a system's CPU. That said, if I could go back I'd get an M-Audio Revolution instead of my A2ZS and av710.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
Creative Zen Xtra 30GB @ $188 from mwave.com

Yeah, I have a 30GB Zen. They're great! Made by Creative, maker of the Audigy 2 sound card, so you know the sound quality's gotta be great. Plus, it's really cheap and holds a lot of stuff 😀

Somehow I find that comment kinda amusing. 😉

lol.

yeah...if you didnt know, the audigy 2 is one of the worse cards for music. it's great for games but distorts music.

Rio Karma$180(use a $10 off coupon too, i got mine for 176.99 shipped)

DAPreview.net
"We obsess about digital audio players here at DAPreview, which is why this kind of stuff is interesting (to us, anyway). The Karma holds a particular fascination as our house favorite."

Cnet Review(weird score has changed. used to be 8.0 for about a year and a half now it's only 7.0
"The bottom line:
This is the new player of choice for audiophiles and geeks."

PC mag review 4/5
"Hand-friendly design. Leader in codec support. Very good ergonomics and navigation. Ethernet on docking base."

Extreme MHz Review Extreme Excellence Award Winner
"Conclusions
There is nothing to dislike about the Rio Karma. It offers you much more out of the box than the Apple IPOD does and is the absolute best alternative currently on the market. It's the most feature-rich hard drive MP3 player we have had the pleasure of reviewing. Its superb playback features overwhelmingly surpass those of the Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen. The player, as well as the docking station, are superbly designed and allow you to not only connect it to an audio component, but also offers some advanced networking capabilities not found on any other digital audio player. Its design, display and interface is top notch.

This is by far, the most powerful MP3 player on the market. While some people seem to have some sort of grudge with the company, they have obviously done their homework and have provided consumers with an excellent product loaded with features most would only dream of. Considering its acceptable $260-$300 price tag, you'll be hard-pressed to find an MP3 player more suitable for the hardcore audiophile. The Rio Karma earns our highest recommendation and a very enthusiastic "Extreme Excellence Award"."

Hexus.net 8/10(for v1.41 firmware, not new 1.68 firmware which fixes a lot of bugs)
"So, all in all, how does the player perform?

Remarkably.

The audio quality, even with the same MP3 input, is far better than my old Archos could manage, or even my PC. The sound quality is superb, for a small portable player. It doesn't have some of the gimmicks of its competitors such as FM Radio or recording, but what you get is a masterful music playback device. The player retails for £270-£280, and is available from outlets such as Amazon.co.uk or AdvancedMP3Players.co.uk.

Is there anything I'd change? Always, no device is absolutely perfect. MSC support would be nice - though this is already under way, and other than that... well actually there's not much I'd change other than that. A bigger hard disk? Perhaps. RMM could do with a slightly better layout, with features such as the ability to view the contents of playlists. The web interface needs more than a "download the java client here" button, but all in all, this is a fantastic device.

Note: The 1.68 firmware was released very late in the review process, so has not been extensively tested. The main advances in the 1.68 firmware are a bucketful of bug fixes. The final score given is for the 1.41 firmware, not the improved 1.68 firmware."

"Most important, the player delivers outstanding sound quality; powerful, clear and distortion-free right up to its (very high) maximum volume level. A range of equaliser presets plus the ability to cross-fade tracks provide further audio pleasure, while the 14-hour battery life almost doubles that offered by the iPod."Webuser.uk review 5/5

PCwiorld review 4/5
"Beyond its sound quality (rated at an impressive signal-to-noise ratio of 95 dB) the Karma's greatest strengths are its clear display and comfortable interface, which make it easy to search for music by artist, album, track, playlist, genre, or year. A feature of particular note is the Rio DJ, an immensely enjoyable tool that automatically generates playlists based on parameters you set, such as your most recently added tracks, songs you've had in heavy rotation, or even stuff you've forgotten about. Other interesting features include the ability to create and save your own custom playlists--mixing and matching your favorite tunes--away from your PC, an equalizer with numerous presets, and a programmable cross fader."

G4 tv review
"Party inside and everyone's invited

I love the Karma's software and have a difficult time finding anything wrong with the graphical user interface. It's certainly no iPod copycat. Indeed, the geek-pleasing Karma adds many more options to tinker with.

* Plays MP3, WMA, and OGG files with amazing sound quality.
* Main menu options are clear and easy-to-enter or back out of.
* You get five EQ presets, three custom settings (using a bass/treble or five-band parametric EQ), auto gain control, and stereo separation.
* Create playlists and bookmarks on the fly.
* Search by artist, albums, tracks, playlist, genre, and year using an alphabetical search.
* Rio DJ is an intelligent DJ feature with options such as Entertain Me!, Memory Lane, Forgotten Gems, and Deja Mix.
* Transfer songs and configure player using the dock's Ethernet port.
* There's manual or automatic network/IP configuration.
* Three play-screen graphics include amazing-looking VU meters.
* Nav wheel lets you skip backward or forward in precise steps during playback.



My favorite thing about the Karma is its quickness when switching tracks, navigating through menus, and creating playlists. Suffering from neither pauses nor skips, the Karma's got the reflexes of a cat. "

Pocketlint.uk review 9/10
" VERDICT
As an alternative to the iPod this is as good as they come. Better still Rio hasn?t tried like so many companies to copy the iPod in any way on the form factor or interface. Yes there are similarities, but only the kind that every MP3 player would have. What Rio has produced is an alternative to the all-conquering iPod. It might not be as sleek (in fact almost deliberately mini-PDA styled), but it?s just as mean and powerful."

Trusted Reviews.com 9/10 Trusted review recommended
"Verdict

The Rio Karma is a very strong alternative to the iPod. If you?re not obsessed with the undoubtedly stunning styling of the iPod, you?ll find that the Karma has some great features that make it an overall better product. "

In conclusion, it is more powerful by the formats supported, is cheaper, has ethernet dock support(I transfer music files at 50MBps on ethernet, 5MBps on usb). Has a fully adjustable parametric eq, fasyt interface GAPLESS PALYBACK so there si no pause during music and is super easy to hold provided you are left handed.

 

[tmchow]

Originally posted by: rod
20GB. Thats about 10,000 songs (3minute @ 128/44). If you do the maths, that's 20 days of non stop music. Why does anyone need this much? The only reason I can think of is other data types (EG photos on the iPod photo), or moving huge amounts of data between computers. A 4GB ipod mini is way more than enough for me. I would have gotten the 1GB shuffle, except i wanted a screen.

Rod, you're probably forgetting that most people have bitrates much higher than 128kbps -- most of my music is 320kbps.

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Rio Karma$180(use a $10 off coupon too, i got mine for 176.99 shipped)


DAPreview.net
"We obsess about digital audio players here at DAPreview, which is why this kind of stuff is interesting (to us, anyway). The Karma holds a particular fascination as our house favorite."

Cnet Review(weird score has changed. used to be 8.0 for about a year and a half now it's only 7.0
"The bottom line:
This is the new player of choice for audiophiles and geeks."
<snip>

Wow, great post mwmorph. I appreciate.. I'll take a look at this player now. I heard that Rio was coming out with a succesor to the Karma, but it's been delayed? Any word on this?

Also, I was reading that Ipod may be coming out with their 5G player in July with triple the battery life and smaller size?

 

[tmchow]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
If you can wait just a few weeks, I suggest the iAudio X5.

Here is a preliminary review.

I checked out the prelim review and noticed this:

Does not support any kind of ID3-tag database. Literally every player on the market, in the US at least, has this as a basic feature. An iD3-tag database is an index of music loaded on the player, sorted into lists of Artist, Albums, Tracks, Genres, Composers, etc. and built from the user-definable bits tagged on to the end of each track (the iD3 tags).

A number of people prefer file/folder browsing but from polls at DAPreview it appears at least 2/3 of our audience would rather have everything sorted in an iD3-tag database. Best solution would be have both file/folder and iD3 database browsing. I was told by a company rep that the reason they didn't include this feature is because it's just not popular in the Korean market, where the X5 was designed.

I'm shocked that this "new" player doesn't even categorize songs based on ID3 info!

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: akugami
And btw Gurck, for someone with a link saying iSheep, it's kinda ironic that person has a Windows based system. Just like 90% of the computer using population.

Couldn't let it go without an attack, could ya? You admit it's a sucky player in your post but endorse it anyway, likely because you watch too much TV or follow fashion, and couldn't let me state factual information about it without an attack 😉 God, I hate children. Btw please suggest an OS which will handle all of my games. I'm waiting 😉

Again you take things way way way out of proportion. It was not meant as an attack but a jab at the irony of making fun of people for buying iPods (or other Apple products) and calling them sheep while at the same time buying and using a computer operating system used by 90% of the world.

So it's ok for you to call others sheep but when someone calls you a sheep it's not ok? And you call me childish... Seriously, who is a bigger child. You who I've noticed ranting and raving about how crappy iPods are at every single chance you get, also calling them sheep for buying iPods and other Apple products, or me for pointing out you can also be called a sheep for using Windows just like 90% of the world? If you don't like being called a sheep for doing similar things as other people (just with a different product) then don't call them sheep. Why so defensive about my one little comment? Hit too close to home perhaps?

Learn to take a joke and lighten up with your infamous "Apple products suck" rantings.

And where did I admit the iPod was a sucky player? Seriously, where? I do admit it's not the most feature rich player but for my uses, which is to play MP3's, it works great. I also like it's user interface and control system which I rank #1 out of all HD based players that I've tried out.

As for endorsing a product. I endorse it because I like it and don't think it's a complete POS like you do. Just because your opinion is that it's crap doesn't mean I think it's crap. Why can't you endorse a product "A" that you like without attacking product "B" and saying how crappy product "B" is?

As for TV, the only TV show I have watched on a regular basis (meaning more than 3 episdoes) in the last 4-5 years is CSI. I couldn't even tell you what the heck most of the stuff the MTV crowd considers fashionable now and I couldn't care less.

*EDIT* I'd like to note how mwmorph can promote an alternative product without having to rant about how one product sucks endlessly.

 

[VRXJudge]

Of all the reviews I've read, this can boil down the HDD players in rank.

1. Philips (get a better pair of headphones, though)
1. (tie) iRiver
3. Creative
4. Sony (AFAIK was discontinued though, and has terrible software)
5. Apple

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: akugami
Again you take things way way way out of proportion. It was not meant as an attack but a jab at the irony of making fun of people for buying iPods (or other Apple products) and calling them sheep while at the same time buying and using a computer operating system used by 90% of the world.

I actually get this quite a bit; people unable to discuss any real issues inform me that I must dislike the ipod because of its popularity. Which is odd, since I'm a big fan of the Yankees, Seinfeld, the band Tool, etc. - all very popular - and have never so much as alluded to its popularity being the reason for my dislike. What I have done is commented on its price, lack of features, bad sound quality, forced use of itunes, etc. Try reading before flaming next time.

So it's ok for you to call others sheep but when someone calls you a sheep it's not ok?

Where did I call anyone a sheep? If you're taking offense to a nonpersonalized humorous link in my sig, the problem lies with you, my young friend. Seems like a case of 'if the shoe fits' 😉