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In 2 years, we will all be driving GM.

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I used to criticize hybrids aver the battery replacement issue, but aside from me who the hell keeps or drives 10 year old cars? (battery packs are expected to last 8-10 years)

Plus, if/when electrics take off, you know the aftermarket will start producing replacement batteries...
 
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I think it's funny that while people praise cars like the Prius, as soon as GM announces a vehicle that could be superior, they start saying how it will perform horribly or be vaporware. Then there's the people who won't consider it simply because it's American made. Sure it could be ugly, but it can't be any worse than that fugly Prius.

Fanboyism is higher here than it is in the Video Card forum.
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"Announcing" is a lot different than actually producing. GM has "announced" a lot of great automobiles over the last few decades -- but actually produced a lot of very poor ones. Sure, a GM vehicle "could be superior" sometime in the future (you could also be struck by lightning); but their track records suggests that its much more likely that they will "perform horribly".

On the other hand, Toyota has actually been building Priuses (and now Carmys) with their hybird systems for several years now, and the owners love them. If lithium-ion batteries can be made to work, I'd certainly be placing my money on the next generation Toyota.

<=== Camry hybrid owner :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I used to criticize hybrids aver the battery replacement issue, but aside from me who the hell keeps or drives 10 year old cars? (battery packs are expected to last 8-10 years)

Plus, if/when electrics take off, you know the aftermarket will start producing replacement batteries...
Click to expand...


In my family's fleet, two of the cars are fifteen years plus, and mine is a '96. Taking care of your vehicle and not sweating the accumulation of parking lot dings (my car gets a wide berth on the highway by those fools in their pristine SUVs) makes a lot more sense.

By the way, I test drove a Prius recently and the salesman claimed his dealership has yet to replace its first battery pack. Toyota starting marketing the Prius in the US in 2001.
 
Originally posted by: sindows
I would buy one only if there are more than 4 cylinders under the hood...I hate the sound/feel of even the best I4s...
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I'm sure they could stick a 2 or 3cyl in there, and just have a big speaker making I6,V5,6,8 or 10 noises, in fact, they could probably give you the whole set 😉
 
"Mods: Please don't move this to the Garage, since this is more of a public consumption piece regarding fuel economics than it is about cars themselves. " 😀 :laugh:

not going to touch a 1st year car.

i'll wait till 2012. whatever bugs found in the 2010 model should be addressed in the 2012 model. (by the time the bugs are reported, the 2011 model will be on the production line already.)
 
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
30000 for a car that will not pay for itself anywhere near ownership time? I will never buy an electric car (especially at that price), the future as I see it, is Hydrogen for everything. It's much easier to work with Hydrogen, It's much easier to modify a current car into Hydrogen compatible rather than modify it into an electric. Plus electric storage and speed of charging will become a major pita. Hydrogen fills up as fast as gas in a car, produces 0 pollution, the only thing that needs be done right now, is to make Hydrogen engines produces more HP which isn't anything unlikely.
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Huh?😕

How is it easier to convert a car to hydrogen any easier then electric? If anything, I would assume the opposite as the hydrogen storage issues haven't been completely worked out. And from what I have been reading, a hydrogen fuel stack can be used to charge the battery in the Volt -now that is really damn cool.
 
Originally posted by: dpert1
<--- still saving for a Tesla Roadster
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I recall people praising the Tesla Roadster for being electric powered and it's great performance and concept. And now when GM tries something similar everyone finds a way to bash it... Not picking a side just something I noticed. 😛
 
Originally posted by: JACKHAMMER
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
30000 for a car that will not pay for itself anywhere near ownership time? I will never buy an electric car (especially at that price), the future as I see it, is Hydrogen for everything. It's much easier to work with Hydrogen, It's much easier to modify a current car into Hydrogen compatible rather than modify it into an electric. Plus electric storage and speed of charging will become a major pita. Hydrogen fills up as fast as gas in a car, produces 0 pollution, the only thing that needs be done right now, is to make Hydrogen engines produces more HP which isn't anything unlikely.
Click to expand...


Huh?😕

How is it easier to convert a car to hydrogen any easier then electric? If anything, I would assume the opposite as the hydrogen storage issues haven't been completely worked out. And from what I have been reading, a hydrogen fuel stack can be used to charge the battery in the Volt -now that is really damn cool.
Click to expand...

He is probably referring to hydrogen combustion vs use in a fuel cell.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Sign me up.

Electricity is much cheaper than gasoline.
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Someone needs to make a calculator online that lets you input gas prices/kWh prices, etc. to compare all this info. It's not easy for the layman to figure it out!
 
Originally posted by: reeserock
You guys are doing your math based on todays gas prices. In 2010 we may be paying double for a gallon of gas, maybe even more than that.
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You think gas prices are going to double in two years? :laugh:
 
Originally posted by: Scouzer
Originally posted by: Eli
Sign me up.

Electricity is much cheaper than gasoline.
Click to expand...

Someone needs to make a calculator online that lets you input gas prices/kWh prices, etc. to compare all this info. It's not easy for the layman to figure it out!
Click to expand...

Lets see if I have enough time to do this real quick...

Gasoline contains about 45MJ/kg.

Gasoline weighs about 6.25lbs per gallon.

There are 2.835kg/gallon.

So there are 127MJ of energy in a gallon of gasoline.

1kWh = 3.6MJ.

That means that a gallon of gas contains about 35kWh of energy.

35kWh at the national average of 10.5 cents/kWh would be about $3.60.

hmm. Is that right? I gotta go, someone check my math.. lol
 
"Last week, the price of oil reached $100 a barrel. This came as a surprise to some people, but it should not have done so. The world is running out of oil, and no amount of wishful thinking can change this fact. A recent book by David Strahan predicts the price will quadruple to $400 a barrel within the next five years."

So if it can quadruple in 5, it can double in 2

 
Originally posted by: desy
"Last week, the price of oil reached $100 a barrel. This came as a surprise to some people, but it should not have done so. The world is running out of oil, and no amount of wishful thinking can change this fact. A recent book by David Strahan predicts the price will quadruple to $400 a barrel within the next five years."

So if it can quadruple in 5, it can double in 2
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lol

I believe in peak oil. It's inevitable.

However, it's not a faucet. It isn't going to just disappear. Prices aren't going to double in a year, or quadruple in 5 years.

Barring some major world event or something, at least.
 
I read both sides of the issue.
I think the answer is in the middle somewhere, but just for interest I'll post the most extreme view as typically there are too many techno fix guys around here.

To be expected on a technology board tho 😉
 
I'm a fan of this, they just need to treat the idea with respect and make a couple dozen-thousand of these. Not holding my breath for that, though.

Also, I imagine that if large numbers of consumers purchase plug-ins, the burden of green innovation will fall on the utilities industry and cut the auto industry some slack. And that's honestly where it should be anyway.
 
Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I think it's funny that while people praise cars like the Prius, as soon as GM announces a vehicle that could be superior, they start saying how it will perform horribly or be vaporware. Then there's the people who won't consider it simply because it's American made. Sure it could be ugly, but it can't be any worse than that fugly Prius.

Fanboyism is higher here than it is in the Video Card forum.
Click to expand...

It's called history, I remember at the 1985 auto show in Detroit, GM commented on how the were not going to invest any money in hybrid technology, that there was no future in it. They claimed they would have a mass produced fuel cell vehicle by 2000, then brought the same crappy concept car to the next 10 autoshows. GM is famous for showy concepts that never see the light, and producing boring cars.

On my side at least its not fanboyism, I would have dearly loved to buy the GTO if it wasn't a crappy boring cramped lumina with a vette motor slapped in as an afterthought.
 
Originally posted by: lurk3r
On my side at least its not fanboyism, I would have dearly loved to buy the GTO if it wasn't a crappy boring cramped lumina with a vette motor slapped in as an afterthought.
Click to expand...

It is a Lumina with a Vette motor. Link
 
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