In 2 years, we will all be driving GM.

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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Below are segments of a much longer article about the upcoming Chevrolet Volt, a hybrid electric/gasoline passenger car to be available in 2010 for under $30,000 USD. The Volt is supposed to allow you to commute to/from work without ever having used any gasoline, boasts 141 miles per gallon efficiency (in comparison, the Toyota Prius does 46 miles per gallon), has a top speed of 118 mph and lets you recharge the car at home using a regular AC plug-in adaptor.

Are you wowed? I'm wowed. And skeptical, but I sure hope they can pull it off. It'd be a true revolution in vehicle efficiency, and would perhaps really set off a change in GM's fortunes (although the Volt will be sold at a loss - it's more of a PR thing).

Mods: Please don't move this to the Garage, since this is more of a public consumption piece regarding fuel economics than it is about cars themselves.

The electric car reborn

At the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS), held in Detroit, Bob Lutz, head of product development, unveiled the muscular Chevy Volt, a concept vehicle that he vowed would become the world's first mass-produced electric car. A direct descendent of the EV1, the new vehicle Lutz described would derive all its propulsion from a single electric motor. For the first 64 kilometres of a trip - longer than most daily commutes - a rechargeable battery that you could plug into a standard wall socket at home would power the motor all by itself; for longer drives, a gasoline generator would kick in to provide continued electrical current to the motor.

Technically speaking, the car would be a hybrid. But unlike current models such as Toyota's Prius, it would be propelled entirely by its electric motor, rather than alternating between electric and gas motors. This "series" hybrid design (as opposed to "parallel" technology) would give the Volt a range of about 960 kilometres if you were to drive on one battery charge and a single filling of its 45-litre gas tank. But since its batteries could be recharged between trips, the need to draw on its gasoline generator would be greatly reduced. Over the course of its life, the car would average about 60 kilometres a litre, depending on the length of trips between plug-in battery recharges - a level that would leave today's gas-electric hybrids eating dust. Or, as Lutz put it at NAIAS, most Americans live within 30 kilometres of work; given the range of the Volt on its battery alone, "you might never burn a drop of gas."

To some, Lutz's claim must have sounded like science fiction. But when he pulled the wraps off the Volt 12 months ago, he also announced a production target of November 2010 - a schedule that even electric-car enthusiasts say is audacious. The implications are mind-blowing. In three short years, consumers could be celebrating the arrival of an affordable electric vehicle (GM's target sticker price is under $30,000) that would cost a driver travelling 100 kilometres a day only $1,000 a year in gas and electricity.

But there's a roadblock standing in the way of the Volt's arrival: the battery. Liquid-cooled and managed by complex software, the lithium-ion power source will be the most advanced energy storage unit in the world, and GM is moving forward on the Volt's engineering and design under the assumption that the battery will work. At this time, however, that is a big assumption. Lithium-ion batteries may be commonly used in consumer electronics, such as laptop computers. But no one has tried to put one in a car, and it's an open question as to whether they'll stand up to the rigours of daily driving, or whether they'll meet minimum lifespans required in some U.S. states - or even if GM will be able to build them into cars at a price that typical consumers are willing to pay.

Thanks to advancements in lithium-ion technology, GM claimed the Volt's battery would be smaller, making room for four seats, double the number of passengers that the EV1 could carry. It would reach a comfortable top speed of 190 km/h, better than the EV1's 130 km/h, and it would have a range that would satisfy the needs of most drivers.

The concern, says battery lab manager Douglas Drauch, is not whether the lithium-ion pack will provide the energy storage and power required - specifically, 16 kWh at 350V - it's whether the battery will last a full 10 years, the minimum lifespan that's required in such states as California. "That's the kind of work we're doing," he says. "We run accelerated life tests. We'll get 10 or 15 years worth of cycling done in a couple of years."

It's possible that GM could find itself producing an experimental car that few people want to buy. And even if it can hit its aggressive sales targets, it still won't be making money. Given the cost of the battery and the determination to keep prices affordable, there's no way GM is going to turn a profit on the Volt, at least not until a few years down the road when economies of scale tip the business model into the black. "The economics of this thing are ugly," Lauckner admits in a moment of candour.

Ugly economics was GM's rationale for taking the EV1 out behind the barn five years ago. This time around, however, there's more at stake than the bottom-line results for a single product line. "The Volt is an environmental halo car," says Erich Merkle, an analyst at Michigan-based automotive research firm IRN. "Right now, GM doesn't get credit for anything it does that enhances fuel efficiency. The Volt is an important PR piece because it allows them to say to the world, 'We are leaders in fuel efficiency.'"

Winning the PR battle, of course, is just the first step in restoring the troubled company to its former status. In fact, GM's pain tolerance for expenses related to the Volt is so high that last September, during negotiations with the United Auto Workers, it committed to building the car in Hamtramck, Mich., instead of its cheaper manufacturing plants in Mexico, as originally planned. "There's more to this than dollars and cents," says Lauckner.

 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,895
3,857
136
So it's largely powered by electricity (likely) generated from a coal-fired plant? No thanks. Call me when Mr Fusion is invented.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: dainthomas
So it's largely powered by electricity (likely) generated from a coal-fired plant? No thanks. Call me when Mr Fusion is invented.

Economies of scale.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: dainthomas
So it's largely powered by electricity (likely) generated from a coal-fired plant? No thanks. Call me when Mr Fusion is invented.

Sounds like more nuclear power plants need to be built.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Originally posted by: FoBoT
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid

"In three short years, consumers could be celebrating the arrival of an affordable electric vehicle (GM's target sticker price is under $30,000) that would cost a driver travelling 100 kilometres a day only $1,000 a year in gas and electricity. "

edit: I spend roughly $1500/year on gas, and my average daily mileage is probably close to 25.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid

<Stupid Eco-Weenie>But electricity IS free! It comes out of those little holes in the wall!</Stupid Eco-Weenie>
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: FoBoT
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid

<Stupid Eco-Weenie>But electricity IS free! It comes out of those little holes in the wall!</Stupid Eco-Weenie>

<AnandTech Forums Poster>I didn't read the article but I'm going to reply anyways!</AnandTech Forums Poster>

:confused:
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
16,430
3
0
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: FoBoT
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid

<Stupid Eco-Weenie>But electricity IS free! It comes out of those little holes in the wall!</Stupid Eco-Weenie>

The thing about this is....the car itself may run cleaner, but more electricity will be used by consumers - and generating electricity isn't always very clean.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
2
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Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: FoBoT
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid

<Stupid Eco-Weenie>But electricity IS free! It comes out of those little holes in the wall!</Stupid Eco-Weenie>

<AnandTech Forums Poster>I didn't read the article but I'm going to reply anyways!</AnandTech Forums Poster>

:confused:

I was replying strictly to the comment, not the article. :roll:

No point spending $30,000.00 on a car that costs me $1,000.00 a year in gas and electricity to run when my current car already costs about that much to run per year.

Yes, I would save money with the better mileage, but I am not going to spend that much money up front to save a few hundred each year, at least as long as I can stretch out the life of my current vehicle.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: FoBoT
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid

<Stupid Eco-Weenie>But electricity IS free! It comes out of those little holes in the wall!</Stupid Eco-Weenie>

<AnandTech Forums Poster>I didn't read the article but I'm going to reply anyways!</AnandTech Forums Poster>

:confused:

<arnold>Stop whining!</arnold>
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,319
1,827
126
I am mostly extremely skeptical.
If/when it does come out, it likely will cost 10G more than they say it will, the battery will hold 1/2 the charge they want it to hold, there won't be much headroom (anybody with a giant noggin or anyone more than 6 feet tall will have to stick their head out the top of the sunroof), There won't be enough legroom for anybody more then about 5 feet tall. The car won't be very wide, so fat people, people with wide shoulders, and people who both are fat and have wide shoulders will have to have 1 arm hanging outside of the car.

I dunno, I am picturing a battery powered geo metro.

I'd love something with those mileage #s at that price point, but only if it's at least somewhat comfortable ....
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Electric cars charged from power created by burning fossil fuels seems to be an oxymoron? With the current struggle to maintain power across the 'States what happens every evening when John Q gets home and plugs in his battmobile to the socket in the cave? There's going to be a surge in lighter fluid as folks flock to backyard grills to cook food when their electric stove won't work in mandated evening rolling blackouts. :laugh:

The only way electric powered cars are going to work is if the power comes from nuclear plants. Wind, solar, hydro, and geo are good too but will never generate enough to make up for the extreme demand placed on the system. Then the transmission infrastructure itself needs to be upgraded costing billions too.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
At my company, you can charge your electric car for free in the parking lot. But in fairness, they should not do any plug in charging to compare to prius.
Just run it long term recharging the battery off the gasoline engine, and see what the mileage is.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: OdiN
The thing about this is....the car itself may run cleaner, but more electricity will be used by consumers - and generating electricity isn't always very clean.

It does indeed simply shift where much of the consumption of fossil fuels happens, but in terms of the reliance on gasoline this is a serious winner. For all the political and economic reasons we're well acquainted with - big positive to look forward to!

Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: yllus
<AnandTech Forums Poster>I didn't read the article but I'm going to reply anyways!</AnandTech Forums Poster>

:confused:

<arnold>Stop whining!</arnold>

<Joseph>Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina!</Joseph>

I will not be bested in the quotewar!
 

aphex

Moderator<br>All Things Apple
Moderator
Jul 19, 2001
38,572
2
91
We spend about 4k a year on gas, so this would be a welcome addition to our family :)
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
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0
I also wonder about how these type of cars would perform in the cold conditions I live in. Batteries of various sorts have shortened life spans in the conditions up here.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Of course there is a long way to go until a car like this is mainstream - it's the technology finally getting off the ground that's impressive. The first hybrids weren't all that impressive & very overpriced too.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,548
940
126
Originally posted by: FoBoT
electricity isn't free, they need to state the cost of electricity too

how much is my electric bill going up per month?

making is sound like it is free is stupid

It would cost a driver travelling 100 kilometres a day only $1,000 a year in gas and electricity.

This sounds pretty good to me. :thumbsup:
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
I also wonder about how these type of cars would perform in the cold conditions I live in. Batteries of various sorts have shortened life spans in the conditions up here.

One of the biggest challenges they seem to be facing is exactly that issue. Their solution is some ultra-sophisticated heating/cooling blanket that's going to cover the battery:

Another key issue is the cost of building the battery pack. Because lithium-ions need protection from extreme heat or cold, the battery will be accompanied by an expensive temperature-control system, which will cool the battery in the sweltering heat and keep it warm in the blistering cold. Compact Power and A123 have both expressed confidence in their ability to mass-produce a working battery by 2010, and do so within GM's price threshold of $8,000 apiece. But if currently undetermined costs, such as those for the temperature-control system, drive the final costs higher, the automaker's target date may be jeopardized.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
they need to list the cost in terms people are used to

maybe instead of MPG, they do DPM, dollars per mile or something
an easy way to compare the cost of the electricity to the cost of gasoline

right now, my commuter cars get 32 and 34 MPG, gas is $2.80/gal
my commute is 100 miles/day

so it costs me about $8.50 a day to drive to work, say $9 with gas at $3/gal

i want to know if the electricity will cost me $5 a day or $10 a day or what to drive to work if i bought that car