BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
You're absolutely correct. School can be very valuable, but it's not the requirement for life so many in this thread continue to insist upon. A person can be very successful without a college degree if they so choose.
It's as if those who hold degrees are intimidated by successful people who don't. Jealousy perhaps? Or maybe they're just snobs, and angry that their years in school don't automatically make them better than everybody else?
So true, I constantly have to convince myself that going to school is worth it, even if I do go to a top 10 university.
When you're young, the degree will help you get your first job and will set a higher minimum starting salary. THAT is why it's important to go to school. Additional hard work will earn you more money and better jobs.
In the long run, your salary will be higher and your job more secure if you have a college degree. That's just a fact.
In the long run, your salary will be higher and your job more secure if you have a college degree. That's just a fact.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
Yes, you do have have an issue with self-esteem and believe that folks with degrees think they're superior. Again ignorance, if you could understand what I've written you'd realize that I said it has nothing to do with the paper that I have but the education that I've gained from going to school. Like I already mentioned, I use my education from school on a daily basis.
If you don't realize that one can improve their opportunities at being successful from increasing their education, I feel bad for you and your family.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
I see what you're saying, but the world just isn't that drastically different than it was in the 80s. In fact, with education inflation and everyone having a diploma it just doesn't mean as much anymore from my perspective. If I had two 22 year old applicants in front of me, the same age and general skillset, but one had on the job training and the other had college I'd hire the person with real world experience.
As for my friends and I, we all graduated from high school in '92 or '93. My career started in around '95. My friend the game developer didn't start his software career until '97. My sysadmin friend was really late in the game, he didn't start until almost 2000, he farted around in college until that time.
Sure, if you want to get into some fields a degree is a requirement, sometimes for legal reasons. My sister is a pharmacist who spent eight years in school. She's doing pretty well, but during the time she spent in school I made a couple hundred thousand dollars and she spent a hundred thousand dollars. She makes a little bit more than I do, but it's going to take a long time for her lifetime earnings to surpass mine and make up for that $300K difference.
I don't know why people are being so difficult about this. I'm not saying school is bad. Of course it's good. But it's not a necessity.
If your kids aren't engaged at school, why not look at a better school? It's not an all-or-nothing proposition.
Maybe if you had gone to college you would realize that anecdotal evidence is worthless. Statistics do illustrate the significance of a college education. College graduates earn hundreds of thousands more in their lifetimes than those with lesser educations. You stated about college, "it's definitely overrated nowadays, especially when compared to the cost." Compared to the cost (sub $100,000 in most cases), it is well worth the cost. I would tell you to educate yourself on the subject, but for you it does seem like it would be worthless.
This should be clarified as entry level jobs that "need" one are required to get your foot into the door. Beyond that these positions typically require BOTH experience and your educational background.
mooncancook
Platinum Member
- May 28, 2003
- 2,874
- 50
- 91
If I were you I wouldn't gamble on my kids that they would do as well without a degree. Though the fact that you are being successful without a degree and that you don't feel any regret for not obtaining a degree will make it harder to convince your daughter. Since your company hires ppl without degree, maybe you can get her to follow your career path and see if it works out. Make sure you know that your daughter is not a lazy person though coz there's no place for lazy person without a degree today. Also make sure you have a reserve college fund for her if she hit some roadblocks and decided she wanted/needed a college education.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
Sorry but you're the one that couldn't comprehend my post. Your lack of education really does comes thru. I never mentioned a piece of paper but you seem fixated on it, again, a self-esteem issue.
hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
- 9,867
- 23
- 76
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Because good spelling and grammar are the keys to success?
Just out of curiosity, what do you do OP?
well, those managers (with degrees) are going to notice those typos, and they could be the deciding factor on whether they give you a job or not. So, id say they are pretty important.
having come from a life of striving to make as much with the least amount of work involved, i can tell you that getting a degree is a good thing. finishing school is definitely a good thing. my ex bro in law (real jerk) works construction, has for the last 20 yrs ive known him. he used to brag that he made more than me, and never finished HS. hes still making about the same money 20 yrs later, i have a degree and have about doubled his salary. his ex wife (my friend and sis in law) got preggos in HS and never graduated. she worked retail for a long time, never making any decent money. she is still struggling with retail jobs now. education isnt always the best route for everyone, but it is definitely a better chance overall for everyone. dont let them limit their choices later on because they dont see the big picture now, as an inexperienced teen.
i just had this talk with my 15yr old nephew and my 13 yr old daughter.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
I have nothing new to add to the conversation so I'll just summarize my thoughts and say this:
Education (College, trade school, whatever) doesn't guarantee success. But it does open doors that would otherwise be closed. It's as simple as that.
It's up to the individual to fail or succeed. But having that diploma certainly makes the later easier.
Education (College, trade school, whatever) doesn't guarantee success. But it does open doors that would otherwise be closed. It's as simple as that.
It's up to the individual to fail or succeed. But having that diploma certainly makes the later easier.
Also worth noting... there are many colleges that use grants in lieu of financial ad and zero debt programs for people making under a certain amount. So the cost is way less than $100,000 for those colleges, if you are in the right income bracket.
You will realize that ditching education is an awful decision once other country's get all of our jobs because they are more highly educated. You have no idea what the long term impact was when you made your decision.
I admit I have a post-secondary education, look down on those that don't have some post-secondary education, and ultimately have a small ego that is propped up by a couple pieces of paper.
I like the fact that people still don't value an education because I would not be able to afford help if everyone went to school. I don't want to empty my own garbage, clean my house, pick up dog poop in the yard, or any other "service". Yes people in the service industries can make a lot of money so let them enjoy their life.
I think the biggest issue is that if you make it to middle managment without a degree, you are stuck with that organization. Isn't middle managment usually the most vunerable to lay-offs/reductions?
I like the fact that people still don't value an education because I would not be able to afford help if everyone went to school. I don't want to empty my own garbage, clean my house, pick up dog poop in the yard, or any other "service". Yes people in the service industries can make a lot of money so let them enjoy their life.
I think the biggest issue is that if you make it to middle managment without a degree, you are stuck with that organization. Isn't middle managment usually the most vunerable to lay-offs/reductions?
Does it really matter how well education the people in India are? I think cost + barely working product is the determining factor there.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
My cousin after ten years of being a Technical Editor for a Software company went back to get her Masters in Social Work. She planned on going back to a State College but a better private college provided her with a scholarship that she never even applied for that will cover a full-year's tuition. Based on their generosity, she's attending the private college.
D1gger
Diamond Member
- Oct 3, 2004
- 5,411
- 2
- 76
I would suggest that OP (and his kids) takes a look at this
Economic Inequality
In particular, read the section about Wage Inequality (Page 4) and look at Figure 2 - Real Wages by Education (Page 21).
It shows pretty clearly, that ON AVERAGE, people who have more education make more money than those with less education. So if you equate money with success, then education is a very good way to begin.
YMMV, and there are always individual cases of self made billionaires who are high school drop outs as well as highly educated Ph D's who can't find a job, but I would prefer to rely on real data when making a life changing decision.
Economic Inequality
In particular, read the section about Wage Inequality (Page 4) and look at Figure 2 - Real Wages by Education (Page 21).
It shows pretty clearly, that ON AVERAGE, people who have more education make more money than those with less education. So if you equate money with success, then education is a very good way to begin.
YMMV, and there are always individual cases of self made billionaires who are high school drop outs as well as highly educated Ph D's who can't find a job, but I would prefer to rely on real data when making a life changing decision.
If you're only 30, how old are your kids that one of them is already thinking about dropping out of school?
Anyway, perhaps you need to think of ways to help her find school more interesting. Through high school, I took college night classes because the classes I was taking at school were, by and large, dull and not very challenging. A happy side-result was that I was able to skip my junior year of high school and graduate early.
When my son gets bored with a class, I talk to his teacher about it. If that doesn't help, he's told to suck it up and find more interesting things to do during his spare time. Kids these days seem to think that they have to be entertained every second of the day and think they should have everything their friends have. I have disabused my kids of this attitude. They have to work for things they want and are given books to read instead of cell phones to spend all day texting on. I've added a financial incentive since my oldest started 7th grade this year: ten bucks for each A on his report card, three bucks for each B, and double the amount for each class that he gets 'honors' in. Four of his classes offer 'honors' for doing two slightly harder assignments per quarter instead of the two normal assignments. It's not a lot, but I'm hoping it'll provide him with a bit of incentive when he's feeling bored with his classes. Since he wants to be a pediatrician when he grows up, he's already got some motivation.
Anyway, perhaps you need to think of ways to help her find school more interesting. Through high school, I took college night classes because the classes I was taking at school were, by and large, dull and not very challenging. A happy side-result was that I was able to skip my junior year of high school and graduate early.
When my son gets bored with a class, I talk to his teacher about it. If that doesn't help, he's told to suck it up and find more interesting things to do during his spare time. Kids these days seem to think that they have to be entertained every second of the day and think they should have everything their friends have. I have disabused my kids of this attitude. They have to work for things they want and are given books to read instead of cell phones to spend all day texting on. I've added a financial incentive since my oldest started 7th grade this year: ten bucks for each A on his report card, three bucks for each B, and double the amount for each class that he gets 'honors' in. Four of his classes offer 'honors' for doing two slightly harder assignments per quarter instead of the two normal assignments. It's not a lot, but I'm hoping it'll provide him with a bit of incentive when he's feeling bored with his classes. Since he wants to be a pediatrician when he grows up, he's already got some motivation.
It's interesting you bring that up because I was just talking to a guy who is neck deep into companies that use outsourcing. He say that's changing. What we are starting to see is that a lot of people from India and other countries are demanding higher wages since they have come to realize that many American business plans are revolving around their lower wages. In other words, American business now "needs" them. They also know what American wages are like so they are asking for very similar wages. The only thing that these businesses will be able to do is search for other cheap labor but the fact of the matter is that you cannot find ridiculously cheap programmers in every country because they either do not have the education or are not willing to work for such cheap wages.
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