Importance of education overated?

[blinky8225]

I see nothing wrong with letting your kids drop out IF they have a really well-thought out plan on what are they going to do with their life. If he or she really hates school, you can let him or her take a year off first and get a better understanding of the real world. Who knows? In that year, they might see the importance of an education. These types of gap years are becoming more commonplace, now.

By the way, when I say well-thought out plan, I don't mean "I'll just work as a waitress." I mean something more along the lines of I figured out cold fusion in the basement.

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: blinky8225
I see nothing wrong with letting your kids drop out IF they have a really well-thought out plan on what are they going to do with their life. If he or she really hates school, you can let him or her take a year off first and get a better understanding of the real world. Who knows? In that year, they might see the importance of an education. These types of gap years are becoming more commonplace, now.

By the way, when I say well-thought out plan, I don't mean "I'll just work as a waitress." I mean something more along the lines of I figured out cold fusion in the basement.

ColdFusion isn't that hard of a program to learn

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: IamDavid

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
Well how old are you? It might work back in your day, but that won't fly nowadays. Everything requires some kind of degree now.

I'm 30. Everyone claims a "degree" is required but I guarantee any company in my field would pay me allot more than most because of my work ethic and knowledge.
I work for one of the largest company's in the US/world. Agriculture based. I'm in middle management now and see no problems advancing if I choose. And I will be completely retired at 55.

And to the ones pointing out my poor spelling/grammar. Thanks. Maybe I'll hire u someday as my secretary.

If this is true, you're an exception rather than a rule. Most places won't even talk to you without a 4 year degree, much less no high school diploma.

 

[piasabird]

For many years school has been about exploring your potential and determining what your interests are. They even have colleges and universities for husbandry in Utah. (Husbandry = Livestock) i.e. Cattle, Dairies, etc. As some would call it Cow College.

The point is that it can be difficult to determine what you are good at and what you can make money doing.

My son was in a program in High School for Cisco Academy for networking and computer repair. However, he was also heavily involved in Chemistry, Math, and Biology. He decided he wanted to get into Nano-technology in an attempt to cure Alzheimers. He is currently studying for some kind of science degree at BYU. I thougt his ideas for his goals and and desires to cure Alzheimers was a bit idealistic, but now I am not so sure. Education is about pursuing your dreams.

The reason why a lot of people do not go into math and science degrees is because they do not see the payback for all that hard work. In the technology sector people see companies hiring all these people with h1b visas. So there is an attitude that it is not worth it to go the math and science route. The more H1b visas the govenment allows the less demand there will be for people in the USA to pursue such degrees. Our own elected officials, are destroying our education system. There are plenty of foreign students from Japan and China and other places going to our universities. It is time to really invest in education and refuse to award companies the right for all these h1b visas. We are our own worst enemy. It is time to invest in America.

 

[BoberFett]

I make six figures as an IT executive and never went to school. I worked my way up from an entry level programmer and was making 60K/yr by the time I was 22. My wife has a four year degree and makes about 35K per year doing data entry. Hard work and determination do go a long way, despite what the naysayers in this thread insist.

Sure, education is never a bad thing. But it's definitely overrated nowadays, especially when compared to the cost.

 

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I make six figures as an IT executive and never went to school. I worked my way up from an entry level programmer and was making 60K/yr by the time I was 22. My wife has a four year degree and makes about 35K per year doing data entry. Hard work and determination do go a long way, despite what the naysayers in this thread insist.

Sure, education is never a bad thing. But it's definitely overrated nowadays, especially when compared to the cost.

All reliable data contradicts what you say.

 

[Baked]

Here's an interesting find by Mr. Black Widow (CorCentral) about education. Does going to the best school and graduating w/ the highest honor make you a better person than someone who didn't?

 

[nageov3t]

you had to work your ass off to get where you were, right?

have your daughter work her ass off and see if that's what she really wants to do -- what you do now may look easy, but I'm sure it wasn't easy getting to that point compared to the leg up a college education might have given you.

 

[Jeff7181]

School isn't just about education and education isn't just about earning a living for yourself down the line.

Going to school helps kids develop socially and emotionally. Getting an education helps kids learn useful thought process.

In my opinion, the two most important parts of school is the social aspect and learning to teach yourself.

 

[mcmilljb]

I find the anti-education posts ignorant. Getting an education is not limited to a school. If you get an entry-level job, they have spend time and money training you. If you get training, you're also getting an education. If you only think "education = school," then you're just blind. I do believe education is the key to a good job, and some people just choose to get it outside of a school. So quit saying this "education is overrated" crap. Some people just choose different methods to be successful at work, and that should be your goal.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I make six figures as an IT executive and never went to school. I worked my way up from an entry level programmer and was making 60K/yr by the time I was 22. My wife has a four year degree and makes about 35K per year doing data entry. Hard work and determination do go a long way, despite what the naysayers in this thread insist.

Sure, education is never a bad thing. But it's definitely overrated nowadays, especially when compared to the cost.

All reliable data contradicts what you say.

By reliable you mean ATOT, no doubt.

Edit: Just how does that reliable data (100% scientific, I'm sure) account for the difference between determination and education? Will a determined person lacking a college degree definitely fail? Can someone with no determination come out of college and shoot up the ladder of life?

Please, explain to me in succinct terms how one can get by without. Being a lowly high-school grad, I'm obviously not able to comprehend that reliable data as well as you are.

Just for more anecdotal data (not reliable like yours I'm afraid, Mr. College Graduate) one very good friend of mine never finished college. He spent about seven years taking various classes but never bothered to finish. I helped him get started on computers and he owned his own PC repair business for a few years that did pretty well. He stopped doing that when a small stock brokerage offered him quite a bit of money to be their systems admin.

Another good friend went to community college for a couple years but doesn't have a degree. He started at the bottom doing work he loved, working on computer games. Since teaching himself how to program he has worked on Orgeon Trail, Paint Shop Pro, Golden Tee Golf, and is now working on upcoming Wii title and works closely with Nintendo.

Damn, I just can't understand how all these people get anywhere in life without that framed piece of paper. Somebody had better set us straight and we can all go back to a life in fast food.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
I find the anti-education posts ignorant. Getting an education is not limited to a school. If you get an entry-level job, they have spend time and money training you. If you get training, you're also getting an education. If you only think "education = school," then you're just blind. I do believe education is the key to a good job, and some people just choose to get it outside of a school. So quit saying this "education is overrated" crap. Some people just choose different methods to be successful at work, and that should be your goal.

This thread is about college specifically, not learning. I doubt you'll find many people who say learning is useless. What is questionable is the piece of paper received after four years of formal education. Or for a lot of people drinking, smoking dope, shagging co-eds, and skipping class for four years. Hell, nothing wrong with any of those things. Sounds like a lot of fun. But I don't see how they translate into "necessary skills for life" unless Longest Keg Stand is now resume material and I missed the memo.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I make six figures as an IT executive and never went to school. I worked my way up from an entry level programmer and was making 60K/yr by the time I was 22. My wife has a four year degree and makes about 35K per year doing data entry. Hard work and determination do go a long way, despite what the naysayers in this thread insist.

Sure, education is never a bad thing. But it's definitely overrated nowadays, especially when compared to the cost.

All reliable data contradicts what you say.

By reliable you mean ATOT, no doubt.

Actually there have been independent studies demonstrating that a college degree greatly increases one's lifetime earning potential. Of course there will always be statistical outliers, but the studies show that for the vast majority of people, a college degree does significantly increase lifetime earning potential.

Also, certain fields require certain degrees or professional licensing to enter them.

 

[mcmilljb]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
I find the anti-education posts ignorant. Getting an education is not limited to a school. If you get an entry-level job, they have spend time and money training you. If you get training, you're also getting an education. If you only think "education = school," then you're just blind. I do believe education is the key to a good job, and some people just choose to get it outside of a school. So quit saying this "education is overrated" crap. Some people just choose different methods to be successful at work, and that should be your goal.

This thread is about college specifically, not learning. I doubt you'll find many people who say learning is useless. What is questionable is the piece of paper received after four years of formal education. Or for a lot of people drinking, smoking dope, shagging co-eds, and skipping class for four years. Hell, nothing wrong with any of those things. Sounds like a lot of fun. But I don't see how they translate into "necessary skills for life" unless Longest Keg Stand is now resume material and I missed the memo.

Then say "College Education." I don't consider my education only limited to my bachelors degree. I did self-study to get my CCNA(1/2 way to CCNP) and MCSA. I consider myself more 'educated' because of that and the on the job training. Even learning on the job contributes.

Now on the basis of arguing about a college education, I do believe my degree is worth less because more people can get it. Also I believe the whole college experience is cheapened by the fact colleges and universities have forgetten they are institutions of higher learning(a pretty campus is nice, but it doesn't pay the bills when you graduate). The paper pushers just want to keep money coming in from research. I understand the value of research, but they are kids paying to learn something useful which is not always being given to them.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
School isn't just about education and education isn't just about earning a living for yourself down the line.

Going to school helps kids develop socially and emotionally. Getting an education helps kids learn useful thought process.

In my opinion, the two most important parts of school is the social aspect and learning to teach yourself.

Now let's say the social aspect of school was totally missed, and you took school more seriously than most people take their jobs.
Am I doomed to spend my time socializing on message boards online?


.......oh. Damn.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
I find the anti-education posts ignorant. Getting an education is not limited to a school. If you get an entry-level job, they have spend time and money training you. If you get training, you're also getting an education. If you only think "education = school," then you're just blind. I do believe education is the key to a good job, and some people just choose to get it outside of a school. So quit saying this "education is overrated" crap. Some people just choose different methods to be successful at work, and that should be your goal.

This thread is about college specifically, not learning. I doubt you'll find many people who say learning is useless. What is questionable is the piece of paper received after four years of formal education. Or for a lot of people drinking, smoking dope, shagging co-eds, and skipping class for four years. Hell, nothing wrong with any of those things. Sounds like a lot of fun. But I don't see how they translate into "necessary skills for life" unless Longest Keg Stand is now resume material and I missed the memo.

I don't drink and was on the Board of Directors of my school's student run Credit Union. I guess I didn't learn anything valuable when I was in college.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Baked
Here's an interesting find by Mr. Black Widow (CorCentral) about education. Does going to the best school and graduating w/ the highest honor make you a better person than someone who didn't?

Definitely a lot of truth to it.
Just look at asians(minus japanese)... could ace calculus classes at 16. They may have the highest average income, but their creativity falls quite a bit short. Unfortunately having practicality and security your number one goal doesn't help with that.

<- asian

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
I find the anti-education posts ignorant. Getting an education is not limited to a school. If you get an entry-level job, they have spend time and money training you. If you get training, you're also getting an education. If you only think "education = school," then you're just blind. I do believe education is the key to a good job, and some people just choose to get it outside of a school. So quit saying this "education is overrated" crap. Some people just choose different methods to be successful at work, and that should be your goal.

This thread is about college specifically, not learning. I doubt you'll find many people who say learning is useless. What is questionable is the piece of paper received after four years of formal education. Or for a lot of people drinking, smoking dope, shagging co-eds, and skipping class for four years. Hell, nothing wrong with any of those things. Sounds like a lot of fun. But I don't see how they translate into "necessary skills for life" unless Longest Keg Stand is now resume material and I missed the memo.

I don't drink and was on the Board of Directors of my school's student run Credit Union. I guess I didn't learn anything valuable when I was in college.

Sounds like you excelled in school. Did everybody else? Was everybody at your school on the Board of Directors or were some people not as motivated and determined? Had you not had the opportunity to attend college, would you be sleeping in a gutter tonight? Try to detach yourself from the piece of paper and imagine what life would be like. You were on the Board of Directors prior to having a degree, so don't you think you would have been successful in whatever you attempted with or without said degree?

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
I find the anti-education posts ignorant. Getting an education is not limited to a school. If you get an entry-level job, they have spend time and money training you. If you get training, you're also getting an education. If you only think "education = school," then you're just blind. I do believe education is the key to a good job, and some people just choose to get it outside of a school. So quit saying this "education is overrated" crap. Some people just choose different methods to be successful at work, and that should be your goal.

This thread is about college specifically, not learning. I doubt you'll find many people who say learning is useless. What is questionable is the piece of paper received after four years of formal education. Or for a lot of people drinking, smoking dope, shagging co-eds, and skipping class for four years. Hell, nothing wrong with any of those things. Sounds like a lot of fun. But I don't see how they translate into "necessary skills for life" unless Longest Keg Stand is now resume material and I missed the memo.

I think it's fairly obvious from this alone that you've never set foot on a college campus.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Education is about making your life easier. My 4 year degree got me a less physically demanding job with a higher salary than someone doing manual labor.

..all true. but even the lesser skilled jobs changed. I've seen work enviroments that were largely mechanical move to nearly all electronic and the mechanics that couldn't up grade their skills(lap top diagnostics and trouble shooting) were out of a job or existing ET's took over the work. We educate our selves to allow us to compete in the market place so we can generate revenue to fund our lives. Education is the best corse of action for the vast masses. But no doubt some people have special innate talent that makes them marketable and very LUCKY.

 

[esun]

If you're asking whether the importance of education for entering the workforce is overrated, then I'd probably say yes. One doesn't have to be particularly smart to get an entry level position, and after that s/he can work his/her way up (though nowadays, there is almost always a ceiling based on your level of education).

If you're asking whether it's overrated in general, I'd say no. I can't even imagine what the world would be like if everyone received a proper education.

Speaking specifically about levels of education, my view has always been that high school teaches you how to work a lot. Not hard, necessarily, but a lot. Classes start at 7AM, so you have to wake up early, and you get homework every night which keeps you at least somewhat busy. The actual knowledge taught is completely secondary to this work ethic. College, on the other hand, teaches you how to learn. You no longer have to wake up early, and homework is weekly and barely affects your grade. However, you move much more quickly and are expected to learn from the book/notes as much as lectures.

If you already possess both skills, then a traditional education probably won't benefit you a whole lot (although beware: just because you think you possess these skills doesn't mean you actually do). Most people don't, or at least they aren't as good at either as they would have been with a traditional education.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: mcmilljb
I find the anti-education posts ignorant. Getting an education is not limited to a school. If you get an entry-level job, they have spend time and money training you. If you get training, you're also getting an education. If you only think "education = school," then you're just blind. I do believe education is the key to a good job, and some people just choose to get it outside of a school. So quit saying this "education is overrated" crap. Some people just choose different methods to be successful at work, and that should be your goal.

This thread is about college specifically, not learning. I doubt you'll find many people who say learning is useless. What is questionable is the piece of paper received after four years of formal education. Or for a lot of people drinking, smoking dope, shagging co-eds, and skipping class for four years. Hell, nothing wrong with any of those things. Sounds like a lot of fun. But I don't see how they translate into "necessary skills for life" unless Longest Keg Stand is now resume material and I missed the memo.

I don't drink and was on the Board of Directors of my school's student run Credit Union. I guess I didn't learn anything valuable when I was in college.

Sounds like you excelled in school. Did everybody else? Was everybody at your school on the Board of Directors or were some people not as motivated and determined? Had you not had the opportunity to attend college, would you be sleeping in a gutter tonight? Try to detach yourself from the piece of paper and imagine what life would be like. You were on the Board of Directors prior to having a degree, so don't you think you would have been successful in whatever you attempted with or without said degree?

Your replies in this thread does show your prejudice and ignorance. My experiences in college as an undergrad and grad student prepared and provided me to be able to have the career that I have had. I use my education everyday. Yourself and the few other individuals that have excelled without a college degree is not the norm. I think it's funny how your lack of self-esteem in the matter clouds your judgment.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: IamDavid
I myself never bought into the "be cool, stay in school" crap growing up. I ditched school as often as possable and dropped completely out by my sophomore year in high school. I could never understand the point of attendance = education so I chose not to play. Instead I worked my ass off and became the person I am today. I'm now the sole provider for my family of six and take care of my mother as well. We live very comfortably and my family wants for nothing, in fact I believe they are becoming to spoiled and pampered. So to my question,

My kids are very bright but don't like school. My eldest can't stand it. Me being a drop out agrees with her reasons but I can't let her know of course. It's been 15 years since I was in school and entering the workplace but I can't see anything that's changed. Life is still more about how hard you work and the relationships you develop versus what useless knowledge some idiotic teacher tried feeding you. Am I wrong?

Society needs underlings. Let your kids drop out. These days, a college degree is required to keep your resume out of the trash can for most good jobs anyway.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I make six figures as an IT executive and never went to school. I worked my way up from an entry level programmer and was making 60K/yr by the time I was 22. My wife has a four year degree and makes about 35K per year doing data entry. Hard work and determination do go a long way, despite what the naysayers in this thread insist.

Sure, education is never a bad thing. But it's definitely overrated nowadays, especially when compared to the cost.

All reliable data contradicts what you say.

By reliable you mean ATOT, no doubt.

Edit: Just how does that reliable data (100% scientific, I'm sure) account for the difference between determination and education? Will a determined person lacking a college degree definitely fail? Can someone with no determination come out of college and shoot up the ladder of life?

Please, explain to me in succinct terms how one can get by without. Being a lowly high-school grad, I'm obviously not able to comprehend that reliable data as well as you are.

Just for more anecdotal data (not reliable like yours I'm afraid, Mr. College Graduate) one very good friend of mine never finished college. He spent about seven years taking various classes but never bothered to finish. I helped him get started on computers and he owned his own PC repair business for a few years that did pretty well. He stopped doing that when a small stock brokerage offered him quite a bit of money to be their systems admin.

Another good friend went to community college for a couple years but doesn't have a degree. He started at the bottom doing work he loved, working on computer games. Since teaching himself how to program he has worked on Orgeon Trail, Paint Shop Pro, Golden Tee Golf, and is now working on upcoming Wii title and works closely with Nintendo.

Damn, I just can't understand how all these people get anywhere in life without that framed piece of paper. Somebody had better set us straight and we can all go back to a life in fast food.

There will always be jobs that doesn't need diploma, and there will always be others that need one. If you don't have a diploma, your option will be more limited. I am sure you can make 6 figures with just hard work and the right opportunities, but again you may not. With a diploma, you will have more doors open to you and more opportunities for you to make the best of it.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ScottyB

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I make six figures as an IT executive and never went to school. I worked my way up from an entry level programmer and was making 60K/yr by the time I was 22. My wife has a four year degree and makes about 35K per year doing data entry. Hard work and determination do go a long way, despite what the naysayers in this thread insist.

Sure, education is never a bad thing. But it's definitely overrated nowadays, especially when compared to the cost.

All reliable data contradicts what you say.

By reliable you mean ATOT, no doubt.

Edit: Just how does that reliable data (100% scientific, I'm sure) account for the difference between determination and education? Will a determined person lacking a college degree definitely fail? Can someone with no determination come out of college and shoot up the ladder of life?

Please, explain to me in succinct terms how one can get by without. Being a lowly high-school grad, I'm obviously not able to comprehend that reliable data as well as you are.

Just for more anecdotal data (not reliable like yours I'm afraid, Mr. College Graduate) one very good friend of mine never finished college. He spent about seven years taking various classes but never bothered to finish. I helped him get started on computers and he owned his own PC repair business for a few years that did pretty well. He stopped doing that when a small stock brokerage offered him quite a bit of money to be their systems admin.

Another good friend went to community college for a couple years but doesn't have a degree. He started at the bottom doing work he loved, working on computer games. Since teaching himself how to program he has worked on Orgeon Trail, Paint Shop Pro, Golden Tee Golf, and is now working on upcoming Wii title and works closely with Nintendo.

Damn, I just can't understand how all these people get anywhere in life without that framed piece of paper. Somebody had better set us straight and we can all go back to a life in fast food.

Not for nothing, but you're comparing the job market today with the job market over almost two decades ago (if we go by the release of Golden Tee Golf in '89). I hope you can see the difference between having a college degree currently and having a college degree back in the mid-80s to early-90s.

On top of that, your friends were able to get into and excel in an extremely niche market (at the time) with a limited pool of workers to choose from. Not saying anything about their determination, but that alone helps to negate the importance of a college degree and makes them exceptions, not the norms.