I never went to high school. My parent's pulled me out of school at the end of sixth grade. I worked full time jobs through my teenage years, and realized it would never lead anywhere. I started college at nineteen. I had to take five extra math classes just to get up to Calculus where I should have started.
Originally posted by: RKS
I don't care what my kids do as far as education; as long as they are either an engineer (PhD), MD, or attorney.
A PhD in engineering does not necessarily translate into a higher salary. It just opens up a different category of jobs, namely professors and research scientists, that don't necessarily pay any higher than what an engineering student could have earned by entering the workforce and working as an engineer for the 5+ years they would have spent to get the PhD.
Plus, engineering grad school is nothing like undergrad. Earning a PhD is mostly about performing independent research as oppposed to just taking more classes.
I know your post was somewhat of a joke, but there's no point in pressuring someone to earn a PhD in engineering if they just don't like to do research.
From my observations, the type of people who are enrolled in trade schools are not what I want to raise my children to become. I want my children to make something of themselves; not settle for trade school because a traditional education is too difficult.
RocksteadyDotNet
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2008
- 3,152
- 1
- 0
for certain jobs an education is certainly required. for example, i dont think it'd be possible to design and build an iphone, or a space shuttle without just a bit of education on physics and electronics-- things that would be hard to pick up 'just working your ass off'
I'm sure many people would point to the examples of plumbers, electricians, etc. who start their own companies after trade school/apprenticeship and do very well for themselves.
Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 28,720
- 13,881
- 136
TridenT
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2006
- 16,800
- 45
- 91
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Michael_Langan
To the OP, how would you feel if your brain surgeon said, "Oh no, I don't have any official education at all... I actually dropped out of HS and never took a single class of college." YAH, OK... I'll go to the next guy thanks.
Your attitude about education is stupid and makes no sense. For every one person that ends up like you, as a high school dropout. There are at least 1000 that didn't.
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: RKS
I don't care what my kids do as far as education; as long as they are either an engineer (PhD), MD, or attorney.
A PhD in engineering does not necessarily translate into a higher salary. It just opens up a different category of jobs, namely professors and research scientists, that don't necessarily pay any higher than what an engineering student could have earned by entering the workforce and working as an engineer for the 5+ years they would have spent to get the PhD.
Plus, engineering grad school is nothing like undergrad. Earning a PhD is mostly about performing independent research as oppposed to just taking more classes.
I know your post was somewhat of a joke, but there's no point in pressuring someone to earn a PhD in engineering if they just don't like to do research.
My older boy turns 5 in a couple weeks. I'll ask him how he feels about research at his birthday party. I'm just glad he has moved on from garbageman to fireman or policeman.
frostedflakes
Diamond Member
- Mar 1, 2005
- 7,925
- 1
- 81
Some relatives of mine started a garbage business about five years ago. It may not be glamorous work, but they pull in some pretty good cash. Don't have to worry about it being outsourced either.
Born2bwire
Diamond Member
- Oct 28, 2005
- 9,840
- 6
- 71
Education isn't a guarantee for success. You still need the proper qualities of character to achieve that, like hard work and ambition. However, education gives you the toolset you need to vastly expand your opportunities. An education allows an individual to be able to choose from a wider range of occupations and lifestyles. It also can increase an individual's contribution and worth to society. We would be nowhere today if not for the scientists, doctors, politicians (yes even them, well maybe), and etc. that came before us that advanced technology and society beyond their wildest dreams. Society cannot keep advancing without a large base of educated professionals. If this is something that your kids do not want to do with their lives then that's fine too. They can just as easily go into a profession that does not require such high academic qualifications, but without an education they certainly cannot join a large portion of the workforce. They're kids, they do not have enough experience to really know what they want to do with their lives. The best thing they can do is try to have as many opportunities as possible so that further on down the road they have to ability to do choose from a wide array of options.
A 19 year old girl without a high school degree will most likely end up naked on the internet.
A person with a lowly history or philosophy degree can work their way into a position that manages engineers.
Tell her the college experience will be more fun than working at McDonald's or as a waitress somewhere.
Going to college will put her in an environment with many people on a successful track where she will have a higher probability of finding a quality husband.
Many people do not go to college for the degree.
A person with a lowly history or philosophy degree can work their way into a position that manages engineers.
Tell her the college experience will be more fun than working at McDonald's or as a waitress somewhere.
Going to college will put her in an environment with many people on a successful track where she will have a higher probability of finding a quality husband.
Many people do not go to college for the degree.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
OP - An education will provide your children with more opportunities than without one. If you don't want your children's career opportunities to be limited then you'll push them to work hard in school and finish it.
Yes, your wrong.
Sure its *possible* to become well off with no college degree but its pretty unlikely. Like was said before, its about making life ALOT easier. You talk about working hard and stuff. but I am a lazy son of a bitch with a college degree and making more then the vast majority of people without degrees.Allowing your kid to drop out of school would be like taking $20,000 a year away from them for the rest of their lives (on average). Sure they might not like school, who the hell does? But its for your own good. Maybe your kids don't like brushing their teeth or eating their vegetables, or getting their shots, but you probably make them do all these things too. ITs the same with making sure your kids stay in school, its one of the most important things to makign their lives better when they grow up (just don't go overboard and be a helicopter parent
).OP - I commend you on your success, but unfortunately you are definitely the exception and not the rule.
Does education = success? Of course not, I know many people that graduated from college that are far from successful. But on the other hand, it doesn't hurt, especially if they are willing to work hard during their educational career.
I do agree that you learn a lot of BS in school, I say about 90% of the stuff I learned throughout my years was useless. My calc teacher in HS told me something very meaningful though, it's just a piece of paper that you're getting, but it's an important piece of paper, and people will be looking to see which kinds of papers you have, so go out there and get your pieces of paper people.
And with that I was off to college. Graduated at 21, bought a house at 22, just turned 23 recently and living pretty comfortably.
So imho, the highest chance for success comes with a combination of education and hard work.
But to put it bluntly your kids should at least finish HS. HS wasn't all that long ago for me and trust me it's a cake walk, I did absolutely nothing in HS but have fun and I graduated with a 4.3 GPA (crazy inflated GPA due to AP/Honors classes). A HS degree is a straight up joke to get these days, no one should have trouble finishing HS.
Does education = success? Of course not, I know many people that graduated from college that are far from successful. But on the other hand, it doesn't hurt, especially if they are willing to work hard during their educational career.
I do agree that you learn a lot of BS in school, I say about 90% of the stuff I learned throughout my years was useless. My calc teacher in HS told me something very meaningful though, it's just a piece of paper that you're getting, but it's an important piece of paper, and people will be looking to see which kinds of papers you have, so go out there and get your pieces of paper people.
And with that I was off to college. Graduated at 21, bought a house at 22, just turned 23 recently and living pretty comfortably.
So imho, the highest chance for success comes with a combination of education and hard work.
But to put it bluntly your kids should at least finish HS. HS wasn't all that long ago for me and trust me it's a cake walk, I did absolutely nothing in HS but have fun and I graduated with a 4.3 GPA (crazy inflated GPA due to AP/Honors classes). A HS degree is a straight up joke to get these days, no one should have trouble finishing HS.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
It is fine to tell someone that they need to have good grades, go to college, get a degree and choose a career but it is a totally different thing when you place all the emphasis on that. If you emphasize it too much you can create a self fulfilling prophecy of failure.
If someone is having a hard time in school and you tell them they will never be successful without a degree then you are helping them to think that because they are not great at school they can never be a success. So they continue to think that way and never strive for anything better.
I have heard a lot of teenagers say that they are too stupid for college , or because they aren't good in one subject or another they can't do something.
This all goes back to the idiotic SAT/GPA crap that they try to use to label a kid. If you don't score high enough you aren't deemed worthy.
Again it makes the kid think they are a failure when in fact it may be a hundred other reasons why they cannot do well in school.
I really wish we could bring back the days of apprenticeship where someone could study under someone else because they had a talent for something, rather than getting a job based on what a piece of paper reads.
If someone is having a hard time in school and you tell them they will never be successful without a degree then you are helping them to think that because they are not great at school they can never be a success. So they continue to think that way and never strive for anything better.
I have heard a lot of teenagers say that they are too stupid for college , or because they aren't good in one subject or another they can't do something.
This all goes back to the idiotic SAT/GPA crap that they try to use to label a kid. If you don't score high enough you aren't deemed worthy.
Again it makes the kid think they are a failure when in fact it may be a hundred other reasons why they cannot do well in school.
I really wish we could bring back the days of apprenticeship where someone could study under someone else because they had a talent for something, rather than getting a job based on what a piece of paper reads.
What you can learn from reading books on your own is good enough if you want to be an entrepeneur but if you want to be employeed, a degree helps you get your foot in the door.
This is one of those things that should not be typed incorrectly when telling a high school dropout that it is better to stay in school. Especially when that high school dropout is communicating better than you are.
Everything that I learned in school is being used on a daily basis. All that little "unimportant" knowledge accumulates into background experience that is used in making many smaller decisions.
For example, the critical thinking skills I learned in calculus now provide me with the ability to analyze a problem, decide on a direction in which to solve that problem, then take the step-by-step process to solve that problem. This method works even when I do not know the solution for the problem at hand.
For another example, the Humanities courses I took now provide me with a broader understanding of aspects to life outside of my studies in engineering.
I agree that there's a lot of "background experience" that comes from an education, but my 90% statement is about direct application of what I learned to my job, but that's me. Hate to sound cliche but you do learn a lot about yourself in college and I don't think I'd be the same person I am now had I not had those experiences.
irishScott
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2006
- 21,562
- 3
- 0
Almost everything I wanted to say has already been said.
I'll just add this: I've been interested in science since day one. To have a career in a scientific field requires scientific knowledge. Learning said knowledge without a degree is hell, getting a job without one mis even worse. From my perspective the knowledge I'm gaining here in college, and a decent bit of what I gained in HS, is hardly useless.
That, and your philosophy is actually somewhat contradictory. You speak about "building your own life", yet you dropped of of HS because "you didn't like it". AKA WAAAAAAAAAAAAA I DON'T WANNA GO TO SCHOOL MOMIE! Sounds to me like you lack the very discipline and hard-work mentality you expound, and you've passed it on to your kids. You stuck to what you knew (you were raised poor) as opposed to exploring and learning something new. At least that's my impression from your posts.
That, and if your kids can't graduate from High School, one of the easiest things one can possibly do, they are either lazy, stupid, have a learning disability, or some combination of the above. Tell them to suck it in. At least having a GED will open up the option to go on to higher education should they choose to do so in the future.
Sorry to sound so critical, and your success is a great accomplishment, but saying that it's OK to drop out of school on the grounds that you have "the drive" is just ignorant, which is another thing that tends to come with a lack of education.
I'm not saying that college is the be-all-end-all, but if you have the oppurtunity and you don't take it, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot. You can learn just as much about life and have just as many experiences by going to college if you so desire, no foot shooting required.
I'll just add this: I've been interested in science since day one. To have a career in a scientific field requires scientific knowledge. Learning said knowledge without a degree is hell, getting a job without one mis even worse. From my perspective the knowledge I'm gaining here in college, and a decent bit of what I gained in HS, is hardly useless.
That, and your philosophy is actually somewhat contradictory. You speak about "building your own life", yet you dropped of of HS because "you didn't like it". AKA WAAAAAAAAAAAAA I DON'T WANNA GO TO SCHOOL MOMIE! Sounds to me like you lack the very discipline and hard-work mentality you expound, and you've passed it on to your kids. You stuck to what you knew (you were raised poor) as opposed to exploring and learning something new. At least that's my impression from your posts.
That, and if your kids can't graduate from High School, one of the easiest things one can possibly do, they are either lazy, stupid, have a learning disability, or some combination of the above. Tell them to suck it in. At least having a GED will open up the option to go on to higher education should they choose to do so in the future.
Sorry to sound so critical, and your success is a great accomplishment, but saying that it's OK to drop out of school on the grounds that you have "the drive" is just ignorant, which is another thing that tends to come with a lack of education.
I'm not saying that college is the be-all-end-all, but if you have the oppurtunity and you don't take it, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot. You can learn just as much about life and have just as many experiences by going to college if you so desire, no foot shooting required.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 392
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter