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Impeachment coming

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Well Dershowitz doesn't think a president out of office should be convicted. By that logic if a President does his durty deeds while in office during the last few days he is excused because there is no time to do anything about it. He is quite the legal genius.
 
fskimospy said:
Well an outright majority of the country thinks that Trump should not only be impeached but convicted so the GOP has a lot of work to do on that front.

This could really play into the Democrats' hands very well - the GOP base demands fealty from GOP lawmakers to Trump, but Trump is an absolutely radioactive brand to the rest of the country. So, you have a situation where the GOP is going to be nominating a lot of people who are huge fans of someone the rest of the country hates. Seems bad for their electoral prospects.
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If the GOP is going to campaign on Trump for 2022 with Trump not actually on the ballot that again makes for an unpredictable dynamic, one not necessarily favorable to the GOP who should otherwise have good odds of winning seats.
 
nOOky said:
Well Dershowitz doesn't think a president out of office should be convicted. By that logic if a President does his durty deeds while in office during the last few days he is excused because there is no time to do anything about it. He is quite the legal genius.
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I'd love for a D congressman/woman to ask him directly, "so if Biden hires a hitman to shoot Trump during his own last week of office, he should be excused?"
 
Roger Wilco said:
Conviction does not seem probable...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1354162427303239680

Cross fingers for 11th hour smoking gun discovery?
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Conviction just isn't gonna happen; the GOP are all political sell-outs (even by well-established DC swamp standards) and all they care about is "winning." In this case, they don't want anything to do with convicting their former (current?) standard-bearer.

You could draw up a worse case scenario for Trump, and he'd still be acquitted by the Senate. Imagine if Giuliani is his lead attorney and Trump testifies that the pre-riot speech was a "perfect speech." Under this quite ludicrous scenario, you still probably wouldn't get 17 Senate Republicans to flip.

I suppose if Trump had a "You can't handle the truth" melt-down on the stand and yelled "you're damn right I incited a crowd to go secure my election," then maybe you get to 67.
 
nOOky said:
Well Dershowitz doesn't think a president out of office should be convicted. By that logic if a President does his durty deeds while in office during the last few days he is excused because there is no time to do anything about it. He is quite the legal genius.
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Under prevailing conservative constitutional thought the president could have congress killed for attempting to impeach him and nothing could be done about it. (Not a joke)
 
Roger Wilco said:
Cross fingers for 11th hour smoking gun discovery?
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Of what? These people don't care about the evidence. Trump is corrupt to the core, some of the Republicans might actually believe the lies but most of them are just doubling down on the lies. They don't care about the country.

They have done decades of division and lies. Do you suddenly expect them to start responding to truth and the good of the country?

www.cnn.com

Analysis: How Oregon just proved Donald Trump isn't going anywhere

On Monday night, the Oregon Republican Party issued a formal condemnation of the 10 House Republicans who voted in favor of impeaching President Donald Trump for his role in inciting the violent insurrection at the US Capitol on January 6.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

Here's a sampling of actual lines from the Oregon GOP's, uh, proclamation.
* Whereas history tells us that after George Washington appointed Major General Benedict Arnold to command West Point, Arnold conspired to surrender the fort to the British."
* "Whereas the ten Republican House members, by voting to impeach President Trump, repeated history by conspiring to surrender our nation to Leftist forces seeking to establish a dictatorship void of all cherished freedoms and liberties."
* "Whereas there is growing evidence that the violence at the Capitol was a 'false flag' operation designed to discredit President Trump, his supporters, and all conservative Republicans; this provided the sham motivation to impeach President Trump in order to advance the Democrat goal of seizing total power, in a frightening parallel to the February 1933 burning of the German Reichstag."
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The majority of the Republican party is doubling down on corruption, lies and insurrection.
 
fskimospy said:
How on earth is he the most relevant force in politics? His legacy is being dismantled before his eyes, his party has lost the entirety of the elected government, etc.

He does still exert a lot of influence over his party, unfortunately for him his party has no power.
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Hmmm I look through the news today and I'd have to say it's still all about Trump, Trump, and Trump. I'd say the GOP is not too far away from turning the tables on the Senate, the House, or the Presidency again next time around if dem voters get apathetic and gerrymandering continues at a merry pace across the country.
 
nOOky said:
Hmmm I look through the news today and I'd have to say it's still all about Trump, Trump, and Trump. I'd say the GOP is not too far away from turning the tables on the Senate, the House, or the Presidency again next time around if dem voters get apathetic and gerrymandering continues at a merry pace across the country.
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I guess I view political power as the ability to implement your agenda. Trump has no power to do anything other than threaten primary challenges in the party that...has no power.

So maybe two years from now that’s different but as far as it goes today, he can’t do shit.
 
So, is there still a 14th amendment remedy to a least prevent him from running for office again?:

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment says that no public officials who had “previously taken an oath” to support the Constitution will hold office if they “have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

Does this require a conviction first? I don’t know how it was used (if at all), but the Constitution itself doesn’t really explain the mechanism. I'm assuming this requires a majority vote of both houses of Congress? (In that case it goes nowhere). The language of the Constitution is unclear on whether this requires a supermajority vote or not, or I'm just missing something here, but by precedent (consisting of three impeached federal justices) is that it requires only a simple majority.
 
Yeah just imagine after all the traitorous crap republicans have pulled and endorsed in Donald Trump, just imagine if that traitorous actually were to be rewarded in 2022 by republicans retaking the senate and probably the house thus paving the way for a 2024 Donald Trump comeback? It’s kinda looking that way. What a difference a few weeks can make when one instigates a insurrection. The republicans who were “done with Trump” have apparently since experienced a religious awakening. They have returned back into the cult with reaffirmed praise of their leader.

Not that anyone is religious around here, but revelations and the anti christ talks of one that “has fallen” (lost his re-election bid) then returns in victory. We all know that Donald Trump is the anti christ. Trump has his people, his government, his enablers, his wealth and power, now all Trump needs is a comeback. And when it comes to good vs evil, if you believe in biblical revelations then you know that evil wins in the end. Well, wins as far as this world is concerned. Good may eventually win out in that after-life heavenly spiritual world, that world of accountability and judgment, but as far as this current world of flesh and blood goes, the good people are screwed. Trump prevails, his little demonic helpers prevail, his government of evil prevails, millions of Christians are deceived, and there you have it. The world of the anti christ Donald Trump. So yes, it’s going to get a lot worse for us Democrats, after all it’s suppose to be. It is written..... 😳
 
Trump may be the shiny object everyone is gazing at but McConnell is the guy who makes things happen for the Repubs and most of what he does is to the detriment of the working class and the poor. Those judges he hired are ready and able as far as backing his play is concerned.
 
VRAMdemon said:
So, is there still a 14th amendment remedy to a least prevent him from running for office again?:

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment says that no public officials who had “previously taken an oath” to support the Constitution will hold office if they “have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

Does this require a conviction first? I don’t know how it was used (if at all), but the Constitution itself doesn’t really explain the mechanism. I'm assuming this requires a majority vote of both houses of Congress? (In that case it goes nowhere). The language of the Constitution is unclear on whether this requires a supermajority vote or not, or I'm just missing something here, but by precedent (consisting of three impeached federal justices) is that it requires only a simple majority.
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Constitutionally, and by precedent as you note, a simple majority via both houses of Congress should be sufficient to have 14th amendment applied. Interestingly it requires 2/3 vote to reverse such a ruling, but not to apply it in first place.

However, in practice, the Senate rules requires 60 votes to accomplish almost anything due to the potential for filibuster - so need at least 10 republicans to progress any such proposal to an actual vote. If by some miracle had 10 Senate republicans in favor of impeachment (which is still insufficient to convict), this 14th Amendment might become an alternative option.
 
Keep in mind, Trump has never been Pardoned. He can still be tried for many crimes criminally at the federal level. So we can Hope that the DOJ puts him in jail for life. All the Impeachment would accomplish is bar him from holding office again. Criminal Charges and Criminal Conviction would be the true accountability.
 
I think the Dems want to put GOP on record where it stands on Trump. Either way, GOP loses. If they convict, they lose MAGAs, if they acquit, they remain party of Trump, and lose in the suburbs.
 
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