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"immigrants don't have to pay taxes"
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I call bull. Just because your father did not withhold income taxes from their paychecks did does not mean they did not have to pay taxes. Also, if the "Mexicans" were actual employees of the company, it is illegal to not have tax withholding. If the "Mexicans" were not employees, they could have been treated as contractors, and thus tax withholding was not required. Regardless of what happened, there is a lot of information that you are omitting, probably because you don't know the whole truth.
Fern
Elite Member
I'm a tax CPA.
Immigrants, whether legal or illegal, living here are subject to income & FICA tax like any US citizen. A few exceptions can be found in cases where an income tax treaty exists, however these benfits are limited and not generally applicable to the subject of illegal immigrants (ex. foreign social security received from their home country may be exempt from US taxation)
But our tax system depends heavily upon voluntary compliance. Only about 2% taxpayers are audited each year, and this statistic includes large corporation who are audited every year and high earners who are audited at about a 10% rate. So, for the average person the rate is actually lower than 2%. I.e., these poeple wil not be audited.
Our voluntary compliance system is supported by (1) reporting - based entirely upon social security numbers and (2) withholding on wages.
However, illegal immigrants do NOT have valid SSN's thus the IRS has no way to audit or track them, they can't find them. As far as our tax system goes, they don't exist.
Income tax withholding (but not FICA) on paychecks is easy to subvert by claiming a high number of exemptions.
If you're not on a 'payroll', withholding is irrelevent.
Many illegal immigrants work in industries for which there is no reporting. E.g., there are many illegal immigrants in my area that own construction or landscaping type companies and hire other illegals. These businesses never file income taxes, nor are any W-2's etc ever filed. The IRS has no program or way to uncover this non-payment. Nobody has any valid numbers, they don't exist as far as our system is concerned.
People who hire these 'illegal immigrant' companies do not report their payments to them to the IRS. Who sends in a Form 1099 for their lanscaping service or people who remodel their bathrooms? Nobody does (unless they are subbing for a big US company - and of course they do will not work for them because of reporting).
Same with a restaurant - who issues a Form 1099 to the IRS reporting the money spent at restaurants? No one does. Same with grocery stores etc. There are an awful lot of businesses where one can get away with no reporting.
Temporary or day labor? The IRS doesn't really require reporting for this anyway. See illegals hanging around Home Depot etc waiting for a person or contractor needing some day labor? This money will never be reported nor any taxes paid etc.
Illegals know these things, and they know how to game the crap out of the system (to get free benefits) and pay no taxes. And why should they act any differently? They are just following the system as we have set it up. What happens if they are caught? Not a d@mn thing, our system is only concerned about illegals who comit violent crimes - even then they may not be deported etc but simple disappear into the background because we don't really know who they are (aside from fingerprints). Quite a few don't care about ever becoming 'legal', there is no reason that currently exists to encourage them to. Many are here to earn what they need to go back home and build a house and start a business etc.
Do illegal immigrants pay income taxes? No, not in most cases.
Hehe, reminds me of something I saw a couple of years ago. I went with a client to checkover a possible building site for a large commercial project. Know what we found when looking over the property with the land owner? A big farming operation. Acres and acres of crops were being cultivated on the owner's land without his knowledge. Illegals had just moved in and started farming the land. Like I said, they know to game the system and know also there are no real consequences for doing so if ever caught.
Fern
Immigrants, whether legal or illegal, living here are subject to income & FICA tax like any US citizen. A few exceptions can be found in cases where an income tax treaty exists, however these benfits are limited and not generally applicable to the subject of illegal immigrants (ex. foreign social security received from their home country may be exempt from US taxation)
But our tax system depends heavily upon voluntary compliance. Only about 2% taxpayers are audited each year, and this statistic includes large corporation who are audited every year and high earners who are audited at about a 10% rate. So, for the average person the rate is actually lower than 2%. I.e., these poeple wil not be audited.
Our voluntary compliance system is supported by (1) reporting - based entirely upon social security numbers and (2) withholding on wages.
However, illegal immigrants do NOT have valid SSN's thus the IRS has no way to audit or track them, they can't find them. As far as our tax system goes, they don't exist.
Income tax withholding (but not FICA) on paychecks is easy to subvert by claiming a high number of exemptions.
If you're not on a 'payroll', withholding is irrelevent.
Many illegal immigrants work in industries for which there is no reporting. E.g., there are many illegal immigrants in my area that own construction or landscaping type companies and hire other illegals. These businesses never file income taxes, nor are any W-2's etc ever filed. The IRS has no program or way to uncover this non-payment. Nobody has any valid numbers, they don't exist as far as our system is concerned.
People who hire these 'illegal immigrant' companies do not report their payments to them to the IRS. Who sends in a Form 1099 for their lanscaping service or people who remodel their bathrooms? Nobody does (unless they are subbing for a big US company - and of course they do will not work for them because of reporting).
Same with a restaurant - who issues a Form 1099 to the IRS reporting the money spent at restaurants? No one does. Same with grocery stores etc. There are an awful lot of businesses where one can get away with no reporting.
Temporary or day labor? The IRS doesn't really require reporting for this anyway. See illegals hanging around Home Depot etc waiting for a person or contractor needing some day labor? This money will never be reported nor any taxes paid etc.
Illegals know these things, and they know how to game the crap out of the system (to get free benefits) and pay no taxes. And why should they act any differently? They are just following the system as we have set it up. What happens if they are caught? Not a d@mn thing, our system is only concerned about illegals who comit violent crimes - even then they may not be deported etc but simple disappear into the background because we don't really know who they are (aside from fingerprints). Quite a few don't care about ever becoming 'legal', there is no reason that currently exists to encourage them to. Many are here to earn what they need to go back home and build a house and start a business etc.
Do illegal immigrants pay income taxes? No, not in most cases.
Hehe, reminds me of something I saw a couple of years ago. I went with a client to checkover a possible building site for a large commercial project. Know what we found when looking over the property with the land owner? A big farming operation. Acres and acres of crops were being cultivated on the owner's land without his knowledge. Illegals had just moved in and started farming the land. Like I said, they know to game the system and know also there are no real consequences for doing so if ever caught.
Fern
BoomerD
No Lifer
What kind of bug do you have up your ass? The guy already admitted that what he believed to be true had been shown to be UNTRUE...he admitted that he was wrong.
Just as in my post where I related that when the Vietnamese boat people first started coming to the USA they got all kinds of breaks, (most haven't been proven to be untrue, but I've since learned that most aren't true) we native-born folks can only rely on what we're told...whether that's accurate or not...and MOST of us are willing to admit it when we're shown that the information was untrue.
Svnla
Lifer
In my very first post in this thread (see above), I did NOT direct it to him but he quoted me so I just responsed in kind, and I am still waiting for some citation from the IRS codes. I don't think I will hold my breath.
Since you quoted me so I will reply to you.
Your post about the VN boat people that arrived in the 70s with breaks was not true either and it had been proven to be a big lie in this very own thread (see the post from KevinH based on his very OWN experience, not hearsay or innuendos or hear from a friend of a friend).
See, the problem I have is you, boomerang, your ilk, et al... kept spreading untrue/twisted hearsays, rumors, innuendos, stereotypes, etc. based on groundless stories from "hear from a friend".."been told".."know someone that knows someone" ..and so on instead of from any reliable sources.
You and your kind are perpetuating the untrue negatives and spreading fault rumors which belittle our legal immigrant community accomplishments. Instead of investigate the stories by look up via Google or heck, give the local IRS office a call...but noooooo, let come in ATOT and other internet forums and showed how little brain and logic you and your kind have.
BTW, IIRC in one of the thread about woman driver, you said something about steretypes exist for a reason. Funny, I don't see you or your kinds say anything about steretypes when white males shooting unarmed/defenless women or kidnapping and raping young boys and girls. Stereotypes exist for a reason, you said?
One last thing, was you a soldier in Southeast Asia in the 60's and 70's? OMG, baby killer!!!!!!!!, murdererrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!! innocent peole killerrrrrrrrr!!!!! hey, don't get mad at me, I just heard it from a friend that is friend of another friend that heard from another friend of another friend that knew someone that was a friend of another friend......How do you like it now when the table is turn?
BoomerD
No Lifer
1) One person's personal experience does not prove those things to be a lie, especially as he was most likely a child during those years, however, as I've already stated, I've since learned that most of the things I had heard weren't true.
Remember, these events pre-dated teh intarwebs and as such, there was no google to look it up back then...you relied on "word-of-mouth" for information. Keep in mind that most Americans didn't want the "Boat People" here to begin with, so spreading lies and misinformation was another way of forming public opinion against them...and there was no accurate way of knowing what was true and what was bullshit.
2) Stereotypes DO exist for a reason. That can't be argued against. Does it mean that every person in that particular group, be it ethnic, social, or economic, happen to fit the stereotype? Fuck no...BUT, at one time or another, enough different people did that helped form the particular stereotype...accurate or not.
Your strawman doesn't stand up by itself since the events/actions you try to use to form a stereotype of white men as murders/child rapists are actions that happen in every ethnic/socioeconomic group...it's not limited to only white people.
3) Yes, I was a US Marine in Vietnam in the 1970's. That makes me a baby-killer and a murderer, although with very few exceptions, every person that I killed was actively trying to kill me or my brethren. AFAIK, only ONE person who died by my hand was a non-combatant...and I still have nightmares about that particular incident. She wasn't the target...her father was. She just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Your attempt at stereotyping me doesn't work because "your friends's friend's friends's friend's friend may be right...or not. Doesn't matter.
Remember, we were indoctrinated with the mindset that our enemy wasn't human...they were "G**ks." That dehumanizing of the enemy makes it easier to kill them. You can't just turn that off when you return from war.
Would I go to war in Vietnam again? Hell yes. I'm still vehemently anti-communist.
You KNOW only what you BELIEVE. True or not.
The difference is when you're willing to admit that what you believed to be true, may not be true when shown evidence to the contrary...
Svnla
Lifer
1) True, there was no internet or Google back in the 60's and 70's but there was a thing called the telephone and also an entity called the local IRS office. (and I did say "give the local IRS office a call...") You could pick up a phone and call your local IRS office and ask them if it was true or not but of course, you rather spread fault rumors and still do not want to accept responsible for it, same old tired excuses.
2) Tell me, right at the top of your head, who were the last 10 notorious women killers or child kidnappers or rapists that you can recite? What race were they? Were they all whites? Nope but surely the majority of them were...let give you my list... who are Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, Charlie Manson, George Sodini, Philip Garrido, Tony Alamo, Roman Polanski, Mary Letourneau, John Couey, et al...And I have not start with the church yet. ..too much to list.
About your post about Asian women can't drive stereotype. Sure, some Asian women can't drive just as much as white women or men can't drive. I don't have the time to recall how many times stupid white soccer moms in minivans and moronic white males in huge trucks almost hit me due to their carelessneses, but you don't see me come in here and whine or make stereotype remarks about white drivers, don't you?
3) I was trying to make a point. One can use the My Lai astrocity and other incidents in the VN war to frame all GIs as murderers but of course, it was not true. Just as any legal immigrants could committ tax fraud but overall as a group, we did not.
Yes, you only know what you know of what you been told but we are humans, we have the ability to learn/discover and improve/better ourselves. You can do some researchs and could have been easily discovered the truth about the topic of the thread but alas, you still refuse to do so and still blame on "only know what I been told". No acceptance of personal responsibility.
Xcobra
Diamond Member
If we are talking about LEGAL immigrants, once you obtain that greencard, bam, you're trated as a full year resident and HAVE to file a tax return and thus are REQUIRED to pay your taxes on ALL your income. It's different if you're a foreigner working in the US temporarily. I don't know where these claims of giving us a five(?) year break from taxes come from.
sciwizam
Golden Member
Not true, I don't have a green card and I've to pay fed, state and SS.
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