Immigrant Surge is Tied to the Failure of NAFTA

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So I take it you are against governemnt handouts now? /cheer if so.

.

:roll:
Please, go back to whatever right-wing cesspool you get this crap from.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So I take it you are against governemnt handouts now? /cheer if so.

.

:roll:
Please, go back to whatever right-wing cesspool you get this crap from.

This is a conservative plan for a global economy, it is the conservatives who are big government offering the handouts.

LOL nice dodge once again

LOL @ you

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So I take it you are against governemnt handouts now? /cheer if so.

.

:roll:
Please, go back to whatever right-wing cesspool you get this crap from.

This is a conservative plan for a global economy, it is the conservatives who are big government offering the handouts.

LOL nice dodge once again

LOL @ you

So explain how we are not responsible for our global economic policys?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So I take it you are against governemnt handouts now? /cheer if so.

.

:roll:
Please, go back to whatever right-wing cesspool you get this crap from.

This is a conservative plan for a global economy, it is the conservatives who are big government offering the handouts.

LOL nice dodge once again

LOL @ you

So explain how we are not responsible for our global economic policys?

If that was my thoery I would; however, I never implied as such. Lay off the crack pipe man.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

If that was my thoery I would; however, I never implied as such. Lay off the crack pipe man.

Fair enough,

Originally posted by: blackangst1
To think our mission is to get the rest of the world on our page as far as economy is concerned is ludicriss. It's a pipe dream and faulty thinking. Also, it's not our job to clean up the corruption of Mexico's government.[/b]

Care to refute why this is not what NAFTA is for, you say it is poison, howso?

Are you saying that free trade is wrong in this case?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

If that was my thoery I would; however, I never implied as such. Lay off the crack pipe man.

Fair enough,

Originally posted by: blackangst1
To think our mission is to get the rest of the world on our page as far as economy is concerned is ludicriss. It's a pipe dream and faulty thinking. Also, it's not our job to clean up the corruption of Mexico's government.[/b]



Care to refute why this is not what NAFTA is for, you say it is poison, howso?

NAFTA is not for the reforming of corrupt governments you dolt. LOL

edit: We certainly can make rules with countries we deal with, but we cant, nor should we, decide for that country how to run it's own economics

 

[trenchfoot]

Why is it a bad thing if NAFTA has helped the rich? Is it not the American Dream to be able to accumulate as much wealth as the market will bear? Or do you somehow think it should only be done as long as no one else suffers? Get real. When Sam Walton created WalMart, he KNEW he would put small businesses out of business. Tough luck. That's how our economy is.

by your reasoning, only monopolies will exist, and ultimately only one entiity will be left, dictating terms on what you buy and how much you pay for it. that's not the american dream i think you're trying to describe here.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1


NAFTA is not for the reforming of corrupt governments you dolt. LOL

No, it is meant to restructure their economy and policys for a global market not to reform a government. This is true.

The problem is the restrucuring itself displaces the labor to up here.

You champion the free market then condemn the changes that occur when you do so, you also state you have no interest in what mexico does pretty much as far as it's people shifting the blame to the mexican government, this is a contridiction to the free market. You are asking to enforce a border where there should be none for the free market to function.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

If that was my thoery I would; however, I never implied as such. Lay off the crack pipe man.

Fair enough,

Originally posted by: blackangst1
To think our mission is to get the rest of the world on our page as far as economy is concerned is ludicriss. It's a pipe dream and faulty thinking. Also, it's not our job to clean up the corruption of Mexico's government.[/b]

Care to refute why this is not what NAFTA is for, you say it is poison, howso?

Are you saying that free trade is wrong in this case?

NAFTA was never meant to equalize economics globally. It was to try and stunt our trade deficits, and to put some rules in line as to trade. As far as saying free trade is wrong...I never implied that. I think free trade is great...but only as long as the USA profits from it.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1


NAFTA is not for the reforming of corrupt governments you dolt. LOL

No, it is meant to restructure their economy and policys for a global market not to reform a government. This is true.

The problem is the restrucuring itself displaces the labor to up here.

Wrong. It is meant to set trade policy, not to restructure THEIR policy internally.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1


NAFTA was never meant to equalize economics globally. It was to try and stunt our trade deficits, and to put some rules in line as to trade. As far as saying free trade is wrong...I never implied that. I think free trade is great...but only as long as the USA profits from it.

Not globally, and not equalize, it is a free market across north america, as in no borders.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1


NAFTA was never meant to equalize economics globally. It was to try and stunt our trade deficits, and to put some rules in line as to trade. As far as saying free trade is wrong...I never implied that. I think free trade is great...but only as long as the USA profits from it.

Not globally, and not equalize, it is a free market across north america, as in no borders.

Actuall;y, specifically, it phased out and eliminated tariffs only on certain products. The only reason NAFTA didnt do as planned is the unplanned boom in manufacturing in India and China Anyhow, getting off topic. NAFTA was never intended to somehow tell Mexico or Canada how to run it's economics. It only put trade rules in place in regard to tariffs. Mexico has had economic issue long before NAFTA. And until civil war unseats and rebuilds it's government, it always will.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: MadRat
What about our homegrown American poor? The mexican poor can cry me a river. They need a revolution not a mass immigration.
The fact we cannot freely roam Mexico is a sign that NAFTA was doomed from the beginning.

So you are against free market policys such as NAFTA?
If they were made citizens and contributed to society do you think the republican free market ethic would be vindicated?

I never liked free trade. Quite frankly there is no such thing as a free trade. There is never an even trade by any sense of the word. Anytime disimilar items are exchanged that is trade, which means there is always inequity. I'd much rather be on the better end of the stick which is exactly what protectionism gives the common man.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: charrison

I would disagree a fence would help, but it would only slow the problem. Granted it would probably greatly slow the problem. However I dont think it is the right solution. Fixing the root cause is the key, bt the root cause is the disparity between the US and Mexican economy. And that disparity is not going away anytime soon.

And if not then the immigrants will continue to stream in.

NAFTA need major reform, or we are going to be having many more visitors.

There maybe problems with nafta, but the problem really exists with the mexican goverment and culture. THe mexican goverment needs significant reform. You must remember Mexica was not utopia before nafta and it appears to be off today than before nafta.

NAFTA is not mexicos deal it is our corruption.

The number of immigrants to the United States from Mexico actually decreased by 18 percent in the three years before NAFTA's implementation. But in the first eight years of NAFTA, the annual number of immigrants from Mexico increased by more than 61% percent.

It is not mainly mexicos fault, It is "free-trade" low wage conservative scams like NAFTA that economiclly carpet-bomb neighboring countries for our profit.

Mexicos corrupt government is just as bad though, I am sure they are not crying over 12 million farmers who are mainly native american anyhow. We know how mexico loves them. *cough cough* Zapista slaughter.

You do know that correltion does noy mean it is the cause.

You really should learn to spell.

Never have been a great speller, so i guess you will have to live with it. But I guess you did not have anything usefull to add...

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Proletariat


I then said you can do nothing about it thats just the way the world works.

Ok, I do not subscribe to the rather dismal theory that it is too broke can't fix it so why bother discussing the issue...

"Just the way the world works." is a standard cop-out to not use your head or refrain from a political discussion, OT is over there.

With all the whining about illegals etc this is a very important issue to think about regarding our hand in their being here.

It makes no sense that one country would randomly hemmorage into another with millions leaving their homeland and communitys behind in such large numbers, there were good reasons immigrants did it last century and there is a reason for it now.

12 million refugees or immigrants of any kind are of a insane scale, there has to be more to it then the blanket bigot response of "they want welfare", Undocumented people don't even get welfare in most border states anyhow.

Dude horrible things happen all the time to poor countrys. They are constantly being abused. Of course I agree with you but what do you want me to do?

What is your opinion of globalization and NAFTA? Do you think we have a moral obligation as americans to clean up our messes? Can we recycle our mess to our advantage creating a silver lining to the free market blowback or do you think we should create a barrier to free market labor on our continent even though it is hypocticl to create a false barrier to trade? Any ideas of how far america should take a interventionist stance?

As the richest country in the world we have a obligation to help the world. The problem is not all nations share such a stance. Most East Asian countries and Middle Eastern countries would like to see us rot in hell along with our allies such as England, Israel and India.

I wish we could be nice to everyone but the fact is our government is sometimes ridiculous and does stupid things to innocent countries.

The United States is not the richest country in the world. We are under no obligation to help anyone. The UK needs to clean up the mess that the US is getting blamed for.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Topic Title: Immigrant Surge is Tied to the Failure of NAFTA

Are there any South Americans left to do the work down there???

 

[piasabird]

I think it is a flawed concept that because you are a democrat or somewhat liber you dislike NAFTA. This was one of Clinton's item that hes was for, I do believe. It seems that all elected officals liked this idea for some reason. I am guessing that anything that is good for big business is good for a senator's or representative's reelection campaign fund.

The big flaw behind this is that Mexico and South America are just too corrupt to take advantage of any benefit for the comman man working south of our border. Why do you think things dont get better in Mexico??? It is just so corrupt that it cant get better. You need the rule of law and protection for any economy to flourish. The Mexican form of government works off a system of bribes and poor people do not have any bribe money.

Free Trade is a key phrase that might seem like it will work in principle, but in actuality there is not much free trade in the marketplace. It is all a sham. It is the biggest lie ever perpetrated on the American Public.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I think it is a flawed concept that because you are a democrat or somewhat liber you dislike NAFTA. This was one of Clinton's item that hes was for, I do believe. It seems that all elected officals liked this idea for some reason. I am guessing that anything that is good for big business is good for a senator's or representative's reelection campaign fund.

The big flaw behind this is that Mexico and South America are just too corrupt to take advantage of any benefit for the comman man working south of our border. Why do you think things dont get better in Mexico??? It is just so corrupt that it cant get better. You need the rule of law and protection for any economy to flourish. The Mexican form of government works off a system of bribes and poor people do not have any bribe money.

Free Trade is a key phrase that might seem like it will work in principle, but in actuality there is not much free trade in the marketplace. It is all a sham. It is the biggest lie ever perpetrated on the American Public.

Yup, totally agree. NAFTA was never meant to help the working class Mexican, it was to benefit the rich. Organizations like the WTO are scum who practice imperialism under the guise of "free trade". Also agree that the total lawlessness that is going on in South America and parts of Mexico is not going to foster a free market like the US's.

NAFTA was to benefit big business for all countries involved, they knew that. Don't delude yourself into thinking that they gave a dam about the working class at all.

The only way Mexico can reform itself is with a rebellion and chop off the head of that government. But instead of sticking up for themselves, they run across the border like cowards and hope we'll stick up for them.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Were it not for the widespread corruption and incompetence of the Mexican government, the working poor of Mexico would be reaping the benefits of NAFTA rather then come to America for a better life.

Just look at the benefits most of Europe is enjoying due to the free trade and labor agreements between the member nations of the EU.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Were it not for the widespread corruption and incompetence of the Mexican government, the working poor of Mexico would be reaping the benefits of NAFTA rather then come to America for a better life.

Just look at the benefits most of Europe is enjoying due to the free trade and labor agreements between the member nations of the EU.

But then workers are free to move where the labor is within the EU, if you do that here you get labeled a evil invader for some odd reason.

In theory it seems like it would work, but people are too hung up on borders and jingoism.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Were it not for the widespread corruption and incompetence of the Mexican government, the working poor of Mexico would be reaping the benefits of NAFTA rather then come to America for a better life.

Just look at the benefits most of Europe is enjoying due to the free trade and labor agreements between the member nations of the EU.

But then workers are free to move where the labor is within the EU, if you do that here you get labeled a evil invader for some odd reason.
In theory it seems like it would work, but people are too hung up on borders and jingoism.

Link? Proof? or speculation?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Were it not for the widespread corruption and incompetence of the Mexican government, the working poor of Mexico would be reaping the benefits of NAFTA rather then come to America for a better life.

Just look at the benefits most of Europe is enjoying due to the free trade and labor agreements between the member nations of the EU.

But then workers are free to move where the labor is within the EU, if you do that here you get labeled a evil invader for some odd reason.
In theory it seems like it would work, but people are too hung up on borders and jingoism.

Link? Proof? or speculation?

Google is your friend.
If you are lucky enough to have a European Union passport, you are free to work not only in the U.K. but anywhere in the EU.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Were it not for the widespread corruption and incompetence of the Mexican government, the working poor of Mexico would be reaping the benefits of NAFTA rather then come to America for a better life.

Just look at the benefits most of Europe is enjoying due to the free trade and labor agreements between the member nations of the EU.

But then workers are free to move where the labor is within the EU, if you do that here you get labeled a evil invader for some odd reason.
In theory it seems like it would work, but people are too hung up on borders and jingoism.

Link? Proof? or speculation?

Google is your friend.
If you are lucky enough to have a European Union passport, you are free to work not only in the U.K. but anywhere in the EU.

No. What I was asking, was referring to what is bold...how is moving around for a job in America lable you as an evil invader? I dont get it...probably coz I'm not as smart as you, but thats why I ask for an explanation.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

No. What I was asking, was referring to what is bold...how is moving around for a job in America lable you as an evil invader? I dont get it...probably coz I'm not as smart as you, but thats why I ask for an explanation.

I was talking about the whole economic zone, not the united states itself.

Smart has nothing to do with reading the OP so you can follow along.

 

[eilute]

So instead of certain American jobs moving to Mexico, Mexicans have moved to America for certain jobs.

Do you think if we enforced immigration that certain jobs, such as growing tomatoes, would move south of the border, and thereby lessen the incentives for illegal immigrants?