I'm sick of war! What the U.S. should have done.

[FalseChristian]

I understand going into Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring the murderous Al-Qeada but not Iraq. Bush and his cronies lied so boldly about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. It is an illegal war. People are dieing left and right for nothing.

We should have gone into Afghanistan and taken out the Taliban and then left. It would have still promoted a strong message that if you fuck the U.S. you're toast.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Welcome to 2003

 

[Fear No Evil]

I understand going into Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring the murderous Al-Qeada but not Iraq. Bush and his cronies lied so boldly about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. It is an illegal war. People are dieing left and right for nothing.

We should have gone into Afghanistan and taken out the Taliban and then left. It would have still promoted a strong message that if you fuck the U.S. you're toast.

And yet Obama continues to support this was based on lies and refuses to prosecute Bush and his 'cronies'. Impeach Obama, then move on to Bush and crew. We need this traitor out of office now.

 

[StageLeft]

And yet Obama continues to support this was based on lies and refuses to prosecute Bush and his 'cronies'. Impeach Obama, then move on to Bush and crew. We need this traitor out of office now.

The problem is America is not actually a strong enough country to nationally admit fault to the extent required to charge Bush. It could only do that if it was ready to admit that it had as a combined whole completely fvcked that one up and with Bush as a figure head.

There are still to many people with "well maybe" and "but if we hadn't..."; they lack the self-esteem to admit they are part of the problem and willing to grow from the lesson.

 

[Fear No Evil]

The problem is America is not actually a strong enough country to nationally admit fault to the extent required to charge Bush. It could only do that if it was ready to admit that it had as a combined whole completely fvcked that one up and with Bush as a figure head.

There are still to many people with "well maybe" and "but if we hadn't..."; they lack the self-esteem to admit they are part of the problem and willing to grow from the lesson.

So Obama is just going to look the other way and allow it to happen for political reasons? Is that the 'Change' he refered to or the 'Hope'?

 

[StageLeft]

So Obama is just going to look the other way and allow it to happen for political reasons? Is that the 'Change' he refered to or the 'Hope'?

Partly, but honestly most Americans don't appreciate how much of an arguably treasonous error it was pushing the country to attack Iraq and they don't want to hear it. They've spent too long telling themselves that even if it was a mistake it was an honest mistake and it was the right thing to do anyway. It would be opening old wounds for them

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Partly, but honestly most Americans don't appreciate how much of an arguably treasonous error it was pushing the country to attack Iraq and they don't want to hear it. They've spent too long telling themselves that even if it was a mistake it was an honest mistake and it was the right thing to do anyway. It would be opening old wounds for them

Most of America initially supported going into Iraq so anything else is crying over spilled milk and the past can't be changed so there's no use whining about it.

Time will tell but, in 20+ years, going into Iraq could very well be viewed as the best thing the US ever did in the ME. So few ever want to consider the long term aspect of it though.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Partly, but honestly most Americans don't appreciate how much of an arguably treasonous error it was pushing the country to attack Iraq and they don't want to hear it. They've spent too long telling themselves that even if it was a mistake it was an honest mistake and it was the right thing to do anyway. It would be opening old wounds for them

Is Mr. Obama not then an accessory to the crime?

 

[Jaskalas]

And yet Obama continues to support this was based on lies and refuses to prosecute Bush and his 'cronies'. Impeach Obama, then move on to Bush and crew. We need this traitor out of office now.

Being a moron does not make him a traitor.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

We should have gone into Afghanistan and taken out the Taliban and then left. It would have still promoted a strong message that if you fuck the U.S. you're toast.

What a fresh and unique perspective!

 

[nyker96]

And ... Now you realized all this ... after what like ... 7 years !?

Your astonishing intellect is just ...

 

[drebo]

I understand going into Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring the murderous Al-Qeada but not Iraq. Bush and his cronies lied so boldly about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. It is an illegal war. People are dieing left and right for nothing.

We should have gone into Afghanistan and taken out the Taliban and then left. It would have still promoted a strong message that if you fuck the U.S. you're toast.

The biggest mistake that was made, regardless of whether or not the war was started illegally (note that Congress DID eventually vote on it and approve it, so it's technically not illegal anymore), was that we tried nation-building.

We've failed at it every time we've tried. They don't want a Western civilization. They're not going to accept a western-style government. It's just not going to happen. Give it the hell up already.

 

[drebo]

Time will tell but, in 20+ years, going into Iraq could very well be viewed as the best thing the US ever did in the ME. So few ever want to consider the long term aspect of it though.

Quite unlikely, seeing as how we haven't actually accomplished anything. Well, except to make radical Muslims hate us even more.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Quite unlikely, seeing as how we haven't actually accomplished anything. Well, except to make radical Muslims hate us even more.

Damnit! And Prisons have just made murders hate us more too. Why can't we just get along with the terrorists and murderers of the world?!

 

[OCGuy]

I don't think even the most stead-fast Republicans can defend the Iraq war. So you are basically preaching to the choir.

Time to get the boys home.

 

[drebo]

Damnit! And Prisons have just made murders hate us more too. Why can't we just get along with the terrorists and murderers of the world?!

Oh, I'm not saying that there isn't justification for us being in the Middle East. Don't get me wrong. My point was more along the lines of "We've been there 9 years and accomplished nothing to be remembered by...we could have been out of there in 30 days not needing to be remembered if we'd done it right."

 

[nonlnear]

So Obama is just going to look the other way and allow it to happen for political reasons?

Yes.

Is that the 'Change' he refered to or the 'Hope'?

Both.
After all it's a meaningless slogan which only holds sway for people who prefer three words about feelings to ten thousand words on policy.

Partly, but honestly most Americans don't appreciate how much of an arguably treasonous error it was pushing the country to attack Iraq and they don't want to hear it. They've spent too long telling themselves that even if it was a mistake it was an honest mistake and it was the right thing to do anyway. It would be opening old wounds for them

Misguided (and possibly criminal) as Iraq was, it was not treasonous. Bush and Cheney may have betrayed virtues, but they did not betray the nation. Afghanistan was simply not a big enough war to vent the collective rage, and Bush knew this. The people wanted blood and lots of it. No number of Thomas Bracket Reeds shouting sanity a the top of their lungs was going to get in the way of the Amer'cuh getting its cathartic ejaculation of bullets. If one war doesn't do it, we'll start another - facts be damned.

 

[drebo]

I don't think even the most stead-fast Republicans can defend the Iraq war. So you are basically preaching to the choir.

Time to get the boys home.

Unfortunately, we can't just go home. The problem is that we were so half-hearted about the whole war that we've gone and made the entire region even more unstable than it was before we got there. We've basically made the region so unstable and hostile that the only think keeping the likes of Yemen and Iran and Pakistan in check is the threat of retaliation by the US army.

The problem with that is that they're quickly learning that we're SO uncommitted in this war that there isn't going to BE any retaliation.

We've basically made a region that can't survive without us, but that we're not actually going to do anything with.

The gubment (repubs and dems) really screwed the pooch with this one. The region is far too unstable and the opinion of the US is far too low to take away the threat that our army poses. I believe, though, that eventually Yemen and Iran and Pakistan are going to realize that we're not going to do anything to them, no matter what they do, and they are going to effect another huge terrorist attack on us.

 

[al981]

I understand going into Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring the murderous Al-Qeada but not Iraq. Bush and his cronies lied so boldly about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. It is an illegal war. People are dieing left and right for nothing.

We should have gone into Afghanistan and taken out the Taliban and then left. It would have still promoted a strong message that if you fuck the U.S. you're toast.

"What the US should've done" to prevent such a blatant lie that got us into Iraq?

1) What the US should've done is investigated its own coverups and corruption at the highest levels preceeding the lie to Iraq. One of many examples: the ongoing coverup of Oklahoma City, where multiple bombs were found and defused. How on earth did Timothy Mcveigh plant those extra bombs you say? :hmm:

2) Of course, your US government would be able to identify and charge some of the extra bombers, but refuse to release any footage of the extra suspects or any footage of the ryder truck.

3) Not to worry! When the US government was finally cornered and had to release "some" video footage, they edited out all video footage that could've identified the extra suspects, and flat out refused to show our public the ryder truck before the bombing.

So, in conclusion, what the US should've done was to clear out the criminal elements within its own government. That would've certainly prevented the lie that is the Iraq war. Then again, the US failed to properly investigate the conspiracy that assassinated its own president JFK decades ago (see sig), along with RFK, JFK Jr, MLK, 9/11, etc etc etc. So much for justice, you silly americans.

Enjoy America, you get many more decades of lies, deaths of your own citizens, and conspiracies for your outright refusal to weed out the criminals embedded in your government Oh, inc hateful "tinfoil hat comments" from idiots and liars who refuse to acknowledge the above links that prove the Oklahoma City coverup is still in place :awe:

 

[Greenman]

I understand going into Afghanistan because the Taliban were harboring the murderous Al-Qeada but not Iraq. Bush and his cronies lied so boldly about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. It is an illegal war. People are dieing left and right for nothing.

We should have gone into Afghanistan and taken out the Taliban and then left. It would have still promoted a strong message that if you fuck the U.S. you're toast.

Check CNN, Iraq had WMD, and used them, gassed a village. As for the rest, ok.

 

[IronWing]

The war in Iraq had the desired outcome. It removed a perceived threat to Saudi Arabia (the folks behind 9/11). Bush put his family connections ahead of US interests and sent US troops to die for Saudi Arabia. The Saudis got a new balance of power, Al Queda got US troops out of Saudi (a key Al Queda goal), and the American people got several thousand dead troops and a trillion dollar bill. Meanwhile the Saudi are still funding radical, violent Islamist movements around the world.

 

[Fear No Evil]

The war in Iraq had the desired outcome. It removed a perceived threat to Saudi Arabia (the folks behind 9/11). Bush put his family connections ahead of US interests and sent US troops to die for Saudi Arabia. The Saudis got a new balance of power, Al Queda got US troops out of Saudi (a key Al Queda goal), and the American people got several thousand dead troops and a trillion dollar bill. Meanwhile the Saudi are still funding radical, violent Islamist movements around the world.

Why isn't Obama addressing the Saudi problem?

 

[trenchfoot]

So many of the comments in this thread have been proven false beyond doubt with 20/20 hindsight to boot, yet they keep popping up like whack-a-moles. lol

edit - ok, ok, I exaggerated: SOME of the comments.......etc.

 

[manimal]

Some people have advocated for a stronger stance on the bush war policies and even criminal trials for Bush, Cheney and the rest. What needed to happen was taking a strong stand to prevent this sort of thing in the future. The precedent has been set at this point showing presidents can do anything without reproach.

I do think that during these dark economic times the public face of such a hunt would be in the short term very bad for the country. Would it emerge stronger? Thats the question.

 

[nonlnear]

Some people have advocated for a stronger stance on the bush war policies and even criminal trials for Bush, Cheney and the rest. What needed to happen was taking a strong stand to prevent this sort of thing in the future. The precedent has been set at this point showing presidents can do anything without reproach.

I do think that during these dark economic times the public face of such a hunt would be in the short term very bad for the country. Would it emerge stronger? Thats the question.

To be clear, when I said "possibly criminal" I was referring to what may or may not have happened (and no I don't claim to have any special insight), not the legal reality of whether a conviction could ever materialize. I agree that pursuing a conviction is probably not the best path to national sanity.