I'm proof that even an idiot can run Linux

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greylica

Senior member
Aug 11, 2006
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I guess we define maintenancee differently. When I talk with my Linux pals, they're always installing some new kernel or trying to find (or write) a driver for some piece of hardware that doesn't have native linux support. They spend hours messing around trying to get their OS working seemingly out of spite for microsoft.

This was a bad time that passed by, thanks to the efforts of good people and donations of dedicated persons. The sustentability of Linux prove a marketshare of services instead of expensive software and give chance to the tecnicians instead of a single entity. You can buy a service plan or not, depending on your abilities. But in the Soho market, Linux is better for the tecnicians who haves to format a machine for sample.

I payed Mandriva, ( One full distro ), and Helped one way or another the softwares that I use most. Actually I am wanting to make some PNG Icons for distribute freely over the Internet. But my primary Goal is to make cinema with Blender. If there is not free software like linux, the project will never got started, cause pay for use more machines will increase costs and I will not be able to do somethings without pay the possible famigerated Cals. There is other problesm like the switch of 3GB too.

Note that a Render farm can use a great amount of machines, ( I will buy it as the project grows ), and one head one licensing will give me a great problems. Another thing is if you use pirated software and the risc of being arrested by ABES and MICROSOFT or to be taxed for doing something wrong. If you want to grow without these problems, use Linux, and use licensed Windows, this way they can´t sue you.
They continue sueing people here in Brazil.

I would like to see the piracy stopped forever,may them leave DRM Ideas and do more for the O.S. Itself., may them stop to sue people, and as linux grows and it is growing faster, sooner we will see piracy dead forever.

I completely refuse to use pirated software riscking myself.

 

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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I think you guys touched on why Linux will never be an OS I will use - its business model (or lack thereof). Linux is a niche OS written for and by Linux mavens. Most linux friends I talk with have no interest in dumbing down their OS to accommodate me. GUI's, help files, and other stuff to make the transition easier for me are tedious to write and not necessary for 99% of the people using Linux so they don't get written.

I can list 0 things I can't do in WinXP (that I want to do). I can count off several that I can't do in Linux:

1) The main FEA/design suite I use @ work (solidworks 2007) doesn't have a linux version
2) The main math suite I use @ work (mathcad) doesn't have a linux version
3) The latest/greatest 3D games either don't have a linux version or it's 3 months late (something I haer about when playing friends online who are pissed about having to run XP to play whatever we're playing)

I could probably think of more but you get the point.

If there were a laundry list of features XP lacked and linux had (that I would use - I don't care about apache and other built in stuff like that), I would consider switching. But, for me, I would have to spend a whole bunch of time to learn a new OS that doesn't even do what I can do now with XP.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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I think you guys touched on why Linux will never be an OS I will use - its business model (or lack thereof). Linux is a niche OS written for and by Linux mavens. Most linux friends I talk with have no interest in dumbing down their OS to accommodate me. GUI's, help files, and other stuff to make the transition easier for me are tedious to write and not necessary for 99% of the people using Linux so they don't get written.

Have you ever looked at Ubuntu? It and it's parent company Canonical's existance is primarly to take care of the things that you're talking about. And the lack of a single corporate entity owning all of Linux is a good thing, just look at what's happened to other competitors like BeOS, NeXT, OS/2, etc.

I can list 0 things I can't do in WinXP (that I want to do). I can count off several that I can't do in Linux:

1) The main FEA/design suite I use @ work (solidworks 2007) doesn't have a linux version
2) The main math suite I use @ work (mathcad) doesn't have a linux version
3) The latest/greatest 3D games either don't have a linux version or it's 3 months late (something I haer about when playing friends online who are pissed about having to run XP to play whatever we're playing)

And none of that will change as long as people are willing to roll over and pay for Windows for those apps. You're stuck on Windows because the apps you want to use are stuck there, but that has nothing to do with your initial complaints. And really, how many people actually care about CAD and math suites? Not too many I would guess, for the majority of people the only problematic areas are compatibility with MS Office and games and the former's 95% taken care of already. If you want to stick with Windows that's your decision, but that's no reason to come into threads like this and spout things that haven't been true for years.
 

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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Competition works in every sector of business - BeOS/OS/2 et al failed because they were bested in a competitive environment. That's not an indictment of the marketplace, it's an indictment of their inferior product/marketing.

I don't look at MS as a software panacea - but I don't see Linux (or the whole GPL idea) as being a real threat to their dominance. I just don't see a community developed and maintained OS as ever being broadly feasible - I think it's fundamentally incompatible with human nature (in the sense that the best software developers and creative minds will gravitate to high paying jobs - something linux doesn't currently offer).

I would LOVE for there to be a real OS alternative - something as good (for me) as XP. But, Linux aint it. Sadly, this is a catch-22 as adopting linux would be one way to further this goal. But, I'm just not interested in the pain associated with a transition.

My thoughts are applicable to me and me only. For me, switching to linux (I've loaded and played with ~4 distros) is a waste of time and counterproductive. It just plain doesn't do what I want. If I didn't run the software that I run, things would be different.

I'm not trying to argue why other people should use XP. I'm just explaining why it's not a good choice for me and why I don't think it will ever be a "maintstream" OS. This isn't an insult by any means - lots of mainstream things are crap (like 'Friends').
 

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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All my templates are written in MathCAD - it would take days to re-do that. I actually prefer mathmatica - used it in school and loved it.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: sjandrewbsmein the sense that the best software developers and creative minds will gravitate to high paying jobs

I can think of a lot of VERY bright(or so it would appear considering what they keep producing) people working on free software, either as a full time occupation, or for free.
And a lot of companies use products that those people produce.
For example, OpenBSD and OpenSSH, both have a lot of very bright people working on them, and just about every company under the sun uses at least parts of one of them(every UNIX vendor I know of uses OpenSSH, and Microsoft has borrowed code from OpenBSD iirc).

Which isn't to say that there aren't bright people working for Microsoft, Apple, Sun, etc as well, there certainly are.
Being good at what you do != wanting shitloads of money for it.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
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Originally posted by: sjandrewbsme
Competition works in every sector of business - BeOS/OS/2 et al failed because they were bested in a competitive environment. That's not an indictment of the marketplace, it's an indictment of their inferior product/marketing.

I don't look at MS as a software panacea - but I don't see Linux (or the whole GPL idea) as being a real threat to their dominance. I just don't see a community developed and maintained OS as ever being broadly feasible - I think it's fundamentally incompatible with human nature (in the sense that the best software developers and creative minds will gravitate to high paying jobs - something linux doesn't currently offer).

Too bad Google, Novell, and IBM aren't hiring Linux developers. Or even Redhat for that matter. :(
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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Competition works in every sector of business - BeOS/OS/2 et al failed because they were bested in a competitive environment. That's not an indictment of the marketplace, it's an indictment of their inferior product/marketing.

And proponents of both believed they had the superior product, hell most claim that OS/2 ran 16-bit Windows apps better than Win3.11 at the time and Windows still won that battle with a massively inferior product. But we're at a point now where there is virtually no competition with Windows on the desktop, almost everyone is complacent and just takes whatever's given to them.

I just don't see a community developed and maintained OS as ever being broadly feasible - I think it's fundamentally incompatible with human nature (in the sense that the best software developers and creative minds will gravitate to high paying jobs - something linux doesn't currently offer).

Reading history books again? I haven't heard those arguments in a few years, I figured most people had realized that not everything is driven by money. The best software developers and creative minds do what they do because they enjoy it, not because they get paid to do so. And, at least in the US, those people do tend to get those high paying jobs and Linux does offer them, just look at RedHat, Novell, IBM, Google, etc.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
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126
Originally posted by: sjandrewbsme
I think you guys touched on why Linux will never be an OS I will use - its business model (or lack thereof). Linux is a niche OS written for and by Linux mavens. Most linux friends I talk with have no interest in dumbing down their OS to accommodate me. GUI's, help files, and other stuff to make the transition easier for me are tedious to write and not necessary for 99% of the people using Linux so they don't get written.

I can list 0 things I can't do in WinXP (that I want to do). I can count off several that I can't do in Linux:

1) The main FEA/design suite I use @ work (solidworks 2007) doesn't have a linux version
2) The main math suite I use @ work (mathcad) doesn't have a linux version
3) The latest/greatest 3D games either don't have a linux version or it's 3 months late (something I haer about when playing friends online who are pissed about having to run XP to play whatever we're playing)

I could probably think of more but you get the point.

If there were a laundry list of features XP lacked and linux had (that I would use - I don't care about apache and other built in stuff like that), I would consider switching. But, for me, I would have to spend a whole bunch of time to learn a new OS that doesn't even do what I can do now with XP.

This is my experience as well. I really like Linux, but it wont do what I need an OS to do. I tried 7 distros over the course of 30 days or so a month or two back, as well as participated on the message boards for each distro. But there are certain things I need to do and Linux cant do all of them.

I personally dont have a problem with Linux, but like I said it wont work for me. I'll try again in 6 months or so :) I went in with the mindset of "This is NOT windows" instead of what most people do which is "why wont it work LIKE windows". Anyhow, I think for alot of people Linux is fine. But for heavy multimedia and gaming, it doesnt work.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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I just don't see a community developed and maintained OS as ever being broadly feasible - I think it's fundamentally incompatible with human nature (in the sense that the best software developers and creative minds will gravitate to high paying jobs - something linux doesn't currently offer).

Reading history books again? I haven't heard those arguments in a few years, I figured most people had realized that not everything is driven by money. The best software developers and creative minds do what they do because they enjoy it, not because they get paid to do so. And, at least in the US, those people do tend to get those high paying jobs and Linux does offer them, just look at RedHat, Novell, IBM, Google, etc.


A lot of Linux development IS driven by money. The truely successfully people are ones that started hacking on it for fun.. then they started getting paid for what the loved doing.

Software itself has a sort of nature to it, just like anything else. There are traits and things that tend to happen with software and it's obvious that software is not equivelent to a manufacturing a car, painting a picture, or writting a book. It's very different and it is a new item in human history.

some of the aspects of it that are unique...
--- It costs about the same to create one copy of a software as it does a million copies of software. For Microsoft to produce one copy of Windows it costs the same as it does to make 10 million copies of Windows. The only true per unit overhead is the cost of electronic bits it takes to copy and distribute it. If you use something like Bittorrent on the internet then the costs are distributed between all the praticipants which means that it's not realy a practical concern and that other costs far out weigh that considuration.

--- There is no need to recreate a program when that program does what you want. If you have a open system and software already does part of you want to do in a new program then it makes more sense to simply incorporate the output from that program into your own rather then duplicating it's functionality. It's generally better to use high quality code that somebody else has written then it is to do it yourself.

--- Because of this the nature of software is always going to go to the commodity. Things that were previously very expensive and unique items are now so common place that nobody in their right mind would even think of paying for them unless there was a special unique need for something different. These things are so common place that they are incorporated into larger software bundles and are to the point were they are not economicly feasible for a new competitive item to come along.

Some examples of things that were previously premium-only and are now commodity:
compilers.
text editors.
image viewers.
web browsers.
word proccessors.
modem control software.
programming languages.

some examples of things that are rapidly becoming commodity:
operating sytems.
virtualization software.
Image editors.
office suites.
Integrated Development Environments.
databases

When something becomes a commidity that is not to say that they shouldn't be programmed on anymore or anything like that.. it's just that there is only financial justiifcation for these sort of things as part of a larger service or product.

It does not make sense for you, if your starting a company, to go out and write a compiler just to sell that compiler like companies did years ago or write a new propriatory language to compete with existing languagse. It's possible to find some nitch to fuffill, but that's the best you can hope for.


-- The majority of software development is customization. There are certainly companies that produce a lot of shrink wrapped software.. but these employ a minority of programmers. The vast majority of programmers work on creating custom software for invidual companies or purposes... For example: web development.


These are some of th ways software developmenti s different from traditional manufacturing things.. like making a textiles on a large scale or baking bread. The economic and ethical issues when dealing with software specificly and digital information in general are quite a bit different then what most of us are used to dealing with.

As another example.. if it was possible for me to cook one loaf of bread then reproduce it at no cost to myself in a nearly perfect manner so that every man, women, and child on earth can have bread... Then is it ethical for me to charge 5 bucks a loaf and if people don't pay it terrorize them by having their governments attack their livelihoods with fines and sanctions?

Now certainly software isn't food or nearly important as food, (but knowledge does save lives if you think about it) but I think it helps to put it into perspective of the sort of issues we are dealing with.

There are many real commercial advantages to open source software as you can imagine... Not nessicarially for big commercial outfits like Microsoft, but for _end_users_ like businesses and such, which people make their money off of software-wise.

In other words open source software is produced by users of the software rather then commercial software companies. And those software companies that do produce and sell commercial open source software do so because they make money from selling associated hardware and support services (which have a big per unit cost and will never be commodized)

If you think about it say your a programmer and your making software under contract for another company. By finding open source software that you can modify to suite your contract your not only going to end up with dramaticly reduced costs, but also a dramaticly improved product for your customer compared to a propriatory software developer who has to maintain their own code base. Sure you can't charge nearly as much, but per hour you spend on something it will make you much more money.

Also GPL allows for a great deal of freedom for individual programmers. For example recently you had Jeremy Allison, a Samba hacker, recently resigned from Novell from a different of opinion.

Now if you a programmer working for a company that produces propriatory software the standard stuff requires you to sign mounds of contracts handing over copyrights and NDAs and non-compete agreements. Generally speaking doing what Jeremy was able to do.. which is to go and take his source code with him to go work for a potentially competing company, would get you sued so quick it would make your head spin.
 

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
Reading history books again? I haven't heard those arguments in a few years, I figured most people had realized that not everything is driven by money. The best software developers and creative minds do what they do because they enjoy it, not because they get paid to do so. And, at least in the US, those people do tend to get those high paying jobs and Linux does offer them, just look at RedHat, Novell, IBM, Google, etc.

I'm just stating what I believe to be reality.

I love my job - but I'm not going to do it for free. If you would, then you're either independently wealthy or lying.

The bottom line, as I see it, is that Linux is not now (or for the forseeable future) a mainstream OS. It clearly isn't now, and I don't see a giant "push" to make it so. It has its place, and I think it's perfect where it is now. It offers a tremendous amount of flexibility, freedom, and utility to people who don't mind spending the time to learn it (or already know it). Meanwhile, people like me who don't want to mess with it and just want something that's compatible and works can go with XP (and its security flaws, weekly patches, et cetera).



 

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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Originally posted by: Nothinman

And proponents of both believed they had the superior product, hell most claim that OS/2 ran 16-bit Windows apps better than Win3.11 at the time and Windows still won that battle with a massively inferior product. But we're at a point now where there is virtually no competition with Windows on the desktop, almost everyone is complacent and just takes whatever's given to them.

I agree there is virtually no competition to windows - that's the whole point I'm making: Linux isn't a viable competitor. I'm not lauding this fact, but it's a fact nonetheless.

I also agree that Win 3.11 didn't "win" due to being objectively functionally superior, it won due to a confluence of marketing, market penetration, and lazy people like me. It won because it was good enough.

That's what XP is for me - good enough (not to mention more compatible and easier).
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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I'm just stating what I believe to be reality.

Which is disproven by the fact that thousands of people work on Linux every day for free. There's no doubt that money is a good motivator, but usually all it motivates you to do is the bare minimum required to get your paycheck. If you're motivated because you enjoy the work then you're likely to do a much better job.

I love my job - but I'm not going to do it for free. If you would, then you're either independently wealthy or lying.

Depends on the job, actually I'm unemployed currently but that doesn't mean that I've start charging people for things that I used to do for free either. I've done a very small amount of work on OSS software and yes, when I've created a patch or submitted a bug report it was for free.

The bottom line, as I see it, is that Linux is not now (or for the forseeable future) a mainstream OS.

On the US desktop, no, but in other areas it most definitely is already mainstream.

It clearly isn't now, and I don't see a giant "push" to make it so.

Then you're not looking. The barrier to entry is a lot higher now that MS has a stranglehold on the market, OEM deals for companies like Canonical and Novell aren't very easy to come by and if someone like HP wants to actually support Linux they have to (re)train their level 1 support monkeys. And if MS decides to suddenly renegotiate their OEM pricing with them after announcing Linux support it could cost them a whole lot more than it has the potential to make them. And if you look at Canonical/Ubuntu's site you'll see that they do want a portion of the desktop and they've done some really good technical work towards accomplishing that, so maybe in a few years things will look different. Especially since MS doesn't have the same influence on non-US countries, a lot of them don't have the money or the desire to support a US company so they're relagated to either pirating Windows or running Linux and running Linux is a lot safer and easier.

Meanwhile, people like me who don't want to mess with it and just want something that's compatible and works can go with XP (and its security flaws, weekly patches, et cetera).

The problem is that XP doesn't usually "just work" unless you already have a clue either. The questions that I've gotten over the years from people trying to do simple things on Windows show pretty clearly that one has to learn how to use a computer no matter what OS is installed, it's just that most people get exposed to Windows first and by the time they hear about Linux they've already learned all of their (bad) habits.
 

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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All what you said I can concede (even though I don't agree with some of it, this is just for debating purposes)....why does the US still use the imperial measurement system instead of metric? They use it because they both accomplish the same thing (functionally) and we already know the latter.

I wholeheartedly agree that we've already learned bad habits with XP. That sucks - but it's reality. It's a reality that Linux can't or won't deal with. Most users want ActiveX and the convenience it provides in spite of the security black hole it is, most users want integrated drivers even though it leads to 9GB (or whatever vista will be) installs et cetera. Even conceding Linux's superiority (which I'm not, this is just making a point) it basically doesn't matter.

We know what a foot is and don't want to screw with meters. We know XP and don't want to screw with Linux.

I would argue that this is the largest barrier to entry a new OS has: people like me who don't want to learn how many grams I weigh or how many centimeters I am tall.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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why does the US still use the imperial measurement system instead of metric? They use it because they both accomplish the same thing (functionally) and we already know the latter.

Yes, conversion sucks and there's little motivation to change except for better interoperability with the rest of the world.

It's a reality that Linux can't or won't deal with.

In the US, which will mean later on down the road the US will be even farther behind the rest of the world.

Most users want ActiveX and the convenience it provides in spite of the security black hole it is,

No, most users want browser plugins that do what they want and don't care if it's via ActiveX or the Netscape Plug-in API. The fact that so many have started using FF over IE shows that ActiveX has no hold whatsoever on the Internet. I can't even think of a single site that requires ActiveX.

most users want integrated drivers even though it leads to 9GB (or whatever vista will be) installs et cetera

Drivers have nothing to do with the size of a Windows install, they're only a small chunk of it and Linux has more, better drivers out of the box. The last Debian Etch install I did on my notebook had everything working out of the box, Windows doesn't come with drivers for anything but the PATA controller.

Even conceding Linux's superiority (which I'm not, this is just making a point) it basically doesn't matter.

Given that MS can't kill Linux because there's no corporate entity to buy out, it will matter eventually. It might take long enough that most people don't have full desktops and don't even see the underlying OS any more, but Linux is already fairly popular in small portables and phones so it's got a head start and the advantage of being open source that MS can't compete with.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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We know what a foot is and don't want to screw with meters. We know XP and don't want to screw with Linux.

You may not want anything better then what you have, but other people are always looking for better tools, better cars, better houses, better anything.

better, cheaper, faster, more secure, and you don't have to agree to abritrary restrictions and terms to be able to use.

No activation, no piracy, no education/evaluation/testing-only licenses. Everything you have with Linux is the same as everybody elses. The same software that runs the most powerfull computers in the world to the smallest computers for any and all purposes is the same as what you have access to.

You can share it, you can modify it, you can add drm from it, you can remove DRM for it. There are no restrictions on the amount of CPUs you can run or the amount of memory can have.

No software assurance. You can stick it on limewire if you want, you can download it via bittorrent. You can have as many copies as you like and you can give it to your mom or brother or sister or fellow worker.

The only practical restriction is that when you distribute it to others you have to use the same terms as it when it was distributed to you.


Now if you want to give up all that just to be able to use Windows, then that's fine. It's your choice.
 

sjandrewbsme

Senior member
Jan 1, 2007
304
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When I asked a linux friend why it was such an arduous process to get Flash working on the default browser that loaded with the last linux distro I tried (fedora iirc), his answer that ActiveX (what loads it in IE) is a security risk. So, instead of clicking yes, I had to go to macromedia's site, manually download the file, untar it (or whatever I did - I can't remember the specifics), install and configure it.

That's 45 minutes, with the last 10 being occupied by someone walking me through it. Compare this with clicking yes in IE.

I don't care about ActiveX specifically, but I don't want to have to jump through hoops for something like that when IE offers me a one-click solution.

Your experiences differ from mine re: linux installation as the autoplay install of XP works out of the box and the same install of linux required much more work (the SATA, PATA RAID, and NIC all didn't work in the default autoplay install of linux). Even the vista beta I tried installed easier than linux.

 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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When I asked a linux friend why it was such an arduous process to get Flash working on the default browser that loaded with the last linux distro I tried (fedora iirc), his answer that ActiveX (what loads it in IE) is a security risk. So, instead of clicking yes, I had to go to macromedia's site, manually download the file, untar it (or whatever I did - I can't remember the specifics), install and configure it.

Well he's wrong on both counts. AFAIK FF has auto-install plugin crap on Linux and Windows and supports ActiveX on neither, but I still prefer the package (flashplugin-nonfree in Debian) because it'll be automatically updated and is easily removable.

That's 45 minutes, with the last 10 being occupied by someone walking me through it. Compare this with clicking yes in IE.

Compared to doing it correctly in Linux which amounts to starting Synaptic, searching for flashplugin-nonfree and telling it to install it. And as I said, I think you can use the FF plugin auto-install stuff in Linux too but I haven't tried it myself. And even if you do install it manually, downloading a file, extracting it and copying it to a directory isn't 45 minutes worth of work.

I don't care about ActiveX specifically, but I don't want to have to jump through hoops for something like that when IE offers me a one-click solution.

Which was my point, most users don't care about the applications themselves and just want something that works. And in most cases (excluding 3D non-free games and specific apps like yourself) Linux can work just fine for them.

Your experiences differ from mine re: linux installation as the autoplay install of XP works out of the box and the same install of linux required much more work (the SATA, PATA RAID, and NIC all didn't work in the default autoplay install of linux). Even the vista beta I tried installed easier than linux.

Your hardware must be quite old for XP to ship with drivers for it, either that or you've slipstreamed them in. This motherboard is a few years old and an extremely common NForce chip (not sure of the rev) and Windows has no drivers anything but the PATA ports. Vista should be on par because it's newer and thus has newer drivers. And any recent distro of Linux should support 99% of the SATA, PATA, network and onboard sound controllers out there out of the box. The RAID stuff is a little different because it's crap, but at the very least the drives should be seen as seperate entities by Linux.
 

greylica

Senior member
Aug 11, 2006
276
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Originally posted by: sjandrewbsme
When I asked a linux friend why it was such an arduous process to get Flash working on the default browser that loaded with the last linux distro I tried (fedora iirc), his answer that ActiveX (what loads it in IE) is a security risk. So, instead of clicking yes, I had to go to macromedia's site, manually download the file, untar it (or whatever I did - I can't remember the specifics), install and configure it.

That's 45 minutes, with the last 10 being occupied by someone walking me through it. Compare this with clicking yes in IE.

I don't care about ActiveX specifically, but I don't want to have to jump through hoops for something like that when IE offers me a one-click solution.

Your experiences differ from mine re: linux installation as the autoplay install of XP works out of the box and the same install of linux required much more work (the SATA, PATA RAID, and NIC all didn't work in the default autoplay install of linux). Even the vista beta I tried installed easier than linux.

It's easy to explain, Vista has an improved Database for modern hardware, but they shoot out the hardware that doesn't run in Vista, Linux will never do it. The new windows will make harder to ecological environmet to recompose of electronic trash.
 

stars

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2002
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Most Linux distros are as easy to use as Windows. People use operating systems for different reasons though. Right now, no operating system, whether it be Linux, Windows etc will ever meet the individual needs for every user. Alot become comfortable with what they know and dislike learning a new way of doing things. I think alot of the frustration and dislike for other operating systems comes from this. Every operating system could be improved to some degree.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
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Compared to doing it correctly in Linux which amounts to starting Synaptic, searching for flashplugin-nonfree and telling it to install it. And as I said, I think you can use the FF plugin auto-install stuff in Linux too but I haven't tried it myself. And even if you do install it manually, downloading a file, extracting it and copying it to a directory isn't 45 minutes worth of work.


I use firefox's auto-install to install flash and such. Works for me and such.

However if you want the latest beta release of flash for Linux, which supports Flash 8 and 9, you have to download the tarball from Macromedia's website.

If you haven't installed flash before then you open up the archive in whatever is your favorite application, make ~/.mozilla/plugins/ (or /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/) directory and copy libflashplayer.so to it.

Then restart your browser and then any mozilla-based browser should be able to use it.

Of course this is a bit more difficult then using the auto installer, but considuring it's a beta propriatory release it's pretty simple affair.

Your hardware must be quite old for XP to ship with drivers for it, either that or you've slipstreamed them in. This motherboard is a few years old and an extremely common NForce chip (not sure of the rev) and Windows has no drivers anything but the PATA ports. Vista should be on par because it's newer and thus has newer drivers. And any recent distro of Linux should support 99% of the SATA, PATA, network and onboard sound controllers out there out of the box. The RAID stuff is a little different because it's crap, but at the very least the drives should be seen as seperate entities by Linux.

Ya.. as it is right now I wouldn't be able to install Windows XP on my machine because I don't have a floppy drive for it.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Sata drivers. :)

I don't have a existing Windows installation to do the 'slipstream' from. If I was to try to install Windows right now all I would have at my displosal would be a blank harddrive and a SP2 installation cdrom.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Of course this is a bit more difficult then using the auto installer, but considuring it's a beta propriatory release it's pretty simple affair.

Debian sid has the 9.x beta plugin in it's repository, but Ubuntu only has 7.x.