SlitheryDee
Lifer
- Feb 2, 2005
- 17,252
- 19
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Fixed the link. Once again though. You might be surprised at what can be achieved with an extremely cut down workout regimen and a carefully controlled diet.
Fixed the link. Once again though. You might be surprised at what can be achieved with an extremely cut down workout regimen and a carefully controlled diet.
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
- 2,681
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Still can't see the pic and if I copy and paste the image address it asks me to login.
If you are happy with your training then there is no reason I can think of why you should change it. For me it's just not the way to go. I've tried HIT (one set per exercise to failure) and while it somewhat maintains strength and mass I don't progress doing it which makes it boring and useless.
My diet has never been a problem, I only drink water and coffee (apart from a whey protein shake after breakfast and after working out) and don't eat fast food or candy/fruits. Been doing that for over 20 years and it wasn't until I injured my leg that I've had to change anything there (I'm on a strict keto diet now).
You can't be serious! 6-8 hours a week requires a large amount of roids! I get that this is a tech site but come on do some research! I'm not even warmed up in 25 minutes and I'm strongest at the end of my workout 1.5 hours later. I guess if you just want pretty muscles and don't care about strength or stamina, 25 minutes a day is OK. Hell on arm day just tricep extentions takes about 13 minutes.
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
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If you read my posts throughout this thread you'd know that I'm talking about 25 minutes with 45-90 seconds rest between sets and doing actual work with actual weights and very short resting periods.
If I were to do triceps extensions (which I never would) then I'd rest 45 seconds max between sets and do three sets of 8-6-3 which would take me 2.5 minutes.
As I said earlier, during my 20+ years of working out I've tried pretty much everything and this is what works for me, I still progress on this program after 20 years of lifting.
Who the HELL does triceps extensions for anything but attempting to build muscle (and failing) anyway? That's an exercise for teeny boppers wanting "definition".
I read your post and it's all wrong. I'm not sure what you mean by "doing actual work with actual weights", but after 20 years of doing this what do you think would happen if you had to do more than 25 minutes of work. I train for strength and stamina, not just pretty muscles. HELL I don't have any pretty ones. I would love to hear your thoughts on why triceps extensions are not worth doing? HELL (not sure why we are capitalizing that word, but OK) I bet you believe that Lat work doesn't help at all with the bench press. Do you understand how important secondary and tertiary muscles are in doing other lifts? To say that tricep work is only good for building muscle for teeny boppers is telling. I would really love for you to layout your weeks workout. Unfortunately I'm pretty close to knee replacements so my workouts are limited to upper body, though I am starting to work with a pro to gain some strength pre op so that recovery is not as bad as it might be. We all workout for different things, to get stronger, bigger, faster, better looking when naked, what is it that you are after?
Add: My triexts are done on a cable machine with 72.5 pounds of plates, and I add two 25 pound DB ot the top of the stack. Then using a 3 up 1 down count with about 1 minute between sets I go 30, 25, 20, 15, 20, 25, 30 for 165 reps.
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J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
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This is getting silly, you either cannot read or cannot comprehend what you read. I never said *tricep work* was only good for teeny boppers building muscle, I said *triceps extensions* were only good for teeny boppers trying to get *definition*. It's a silly little isolation exercise and even sillier when you use machines to do the work.
My last weeks workout:
Sunday:
Benchpress 8-6-3 reps
Incline dumbell press 8-6-3 reps
Decline dumbell press 8-6-3 reps
Monday:
Military presses 8-6-3 reps
Upright rows 8-6-3 reps
Bent over barbell rows to the shoulders 8-6-3 reps
Tuesday:
Squats 8-6-3
Front Squats 8-6-3
Barbell hack squats 8-6-3
Thursday:
Deadlifts 8-6-3
Weighted chins 8-6-3
Bent over barbell rows 8-6-3
Friday:
Weighted dips 8-6-3
Narrow grip bench presses 8-6-3
Weighted pull ups 8-6-3
Only compound exercises, explosive positive and controlled negative, if I can do more than 8 reps I increase the weight and if I can do more than 3 on the last set I decrease the resting period.
Warmup consists of five minutes high intensity cardio to get my blood flowing and body temperature raised, enough to make me sweat. Warmup sets are very light and low rep, enough to get the blood into the area but no more, I'm not interested in doing 30 rep cardio sets.
Your triceps extension workout looks more like a set of light weight cardio to me, I don't really know what that's supposed to do.
You're right we definitely have a communication issue, if you think that tricep extensions are not tricep work, I'm hoping you didn't think that is the only tri exercise I'm doing. Seriously, lightweight cardo? Now you're just being silly. While I will admit that there is an element of cardio in the number of reps, I hardly think that its light weight.
It's interesting you didn't include the weight you are using. After 20 years and your insistence that 25 minutes is all that's required, I would love to see the weights you're using especially since you think that 100+ pounds on an tri iso is light weight. Like I said we all do this for different reasons and to equivalently say that one way is the ONLY way is completely wrong.
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
- 2,681
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And since it's apparently impossible for us to have any form of meaningful communication since you cannot understand what I'm writing I think we're done here.
If your workouts are doing what you want then great, for me that kind of workout would be completely pointless which is why I stick with what I know works for me.
snoopy7548
Diamond Member
- Jan 1, 2005
- 8,254
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deadlyapp
Diamond Member
- Apr 25, 2004
- 6,670
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I'm confused that you are calling these compound exercises - nearly all of them target very specific muscle groups with maybe some secondary support, but eg your Friday is primarily chest, tricep, and back/lat. A compound movement would be something like olympic lifting.
Your rep counts are interesting though. You're mixing hypertrophy and strength and your number of sets and reps seem too low to really give you much any benefit, but I guess this is why the human body is strange if it's working for you. Shrug.
I was really hoping you weren't going to go that route, though I kind of expected it.
Please reconsider. There is one thing that is certain, no matter the language barrier, numbers do not lie!
TTIWWP.
If you twist my arm. But there nothing to see but an old man past his prime and in desperate need of a haircut!
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
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Any exercise that involves more than one joint is a compound exercise, that is the definition.
It works for me, I get really good increases in strength which, as it does, also grows muscle (the two are entwined). I think that it's a form of powerbuilding but I don't think it's a program you can find anywhere.
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
- 2,681
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OK, here are some weight numbers for the typical workout week right now.
Bench 250x8-6-3
Dumbell incline 110x8-6-3
Dumbell decline 110x8-6-3
Military presses 170x8-6-3
Upright rows 150x8-6-3
Bent over barbell rows to the shoulder 200x8-6-3
Squats 380x8-6-3
Front Squats 280x8-6-3
Hack Squats with barbell 300x8-6-3
Deadlift 400x8-6-3
Weighted chins bodyweight+120x8-6-3
Bent over barbell rows 250x8-6-3
Weighted dips bodyweight+120x8-6-3
Narrow grip bench presses 220x8-6-3
Weighted pull ups 120x8-6-3
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If I am reading it correctly, claiming that anyone who works out for more than a hour, 6 days a week is on steroids. That is a totally false statement. I work out over an hour every time I go, with an average of 5 days a week. I have never taken any steroid or anything like it. Although I have been accused of it. Just really a silly comment to make.
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
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You're not reading it correctly and re-reading what I said I can find no way to even attempt to interpret it in the way you have.
I'm saying that effective workout time (lifting weights) lasting longer than 45 minutes is fine if you are on steroids but counterproductive if you are not.
You can spend 5 hours in the gym ever single day and still have less effective workout time than 45 minutes, it all comes down to what you are doing in the gym, not how much time you spend in the gym.
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I still am unclear as to why you believe that more than 45 minutes is a bad thing and counterproductive. Do you have some research you've either conducted or read you can point to? I've looked for your 8-6-3 routine and can't find anything related to powerlifting or bodybuilding. What do you consider effective?
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
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At a point you stop the phase where you are building muscle/strength and overtrain your muscles producing copious amounts of cortisol which is counterproductive to any gains in strength/muscle building. You want to stay in the phase where testosterone is high and cortisol is low and there is no good way to prolong this phase.
Most people who "work out" for hours on end actually don't do more work, they just rest more.
For example, copious amounts of warmup sets, stretching, stationary bike warmup, socializing, going to the bathroom, walking around looking at the weights isn't working out, it's resting.
As I said my schedule is my own creation and while based on basic principles it's not something you'll find anywhere else. You could adapt it to your liking or try it out and see how it works if you want to but I have no guarantees that it'll work as well for you as it does for me.
The idea is to work out the body to failure in every set until you literally can't do any more. Since the resting period of 45-90 seconds apply between exercises as well as between sets and the weight is exactly what you can do and no less you'll overload your muscles as much as possible in a short period of time. Once you're done with you 9 sets you should be DONE, as in about ready to throw up.
It may be that it takes time to work up to a point where you can exert your full muscle capacity in such a short time but it's certainly working for me.
I think you basic principles are a bit flawed. I am pretty sure that no one who actually works out is claiming that time spent a the water fountain or hitting the head and chatting up with friends is part of the workout or the time spent. As for your Cortisol argument you might want to do a bit of reading up it and its effects. Someone just starting out might have an issue with extended workouts and its production but people who have been training for some time have removed or at least have adapted to the stress levels that trigger cortisol. The less you are worried about that last rep or set, or the 20 other sets to come, the less cortisol production there will be. It's basically an anti stress hormone, and post workout it helps deliver fat to help power muscle protein synthesis.
Looking at your comments about going to failure on each set may actually put you into a higher risk category for increased cortisol production, especially considering your minimal rest periods.
Here's a little read from Rob Robergs, Ph.D. and Len Kravitz, Ph.D. https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/cortisol.html
Just like I would never do your workout, (besides my knee issues) I would feel like it was a waste of time, and you would never live through mine, no one workout is right for everyone, but there are simple truths that must be recognised regardless of our personal thoughts and feelings. When we understand how the body works we can more effectively work the body and get what we want from it. I'm just now getting back to where I was after a shoulder injury and it's a lot more fun with some basic understanding under your belt.
PeterScott
Platinum Member
- Jul 7, 2017
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I am pretty sure everyone I ever talked to, just mentions time spent in the weight room, so yeah they include breaks, water intake, etc... I never met anyone who talks about their workout time only in terms of time actually spent moving weights in productive work sets.
Steroids are prevalent and they do tend to go hand in hand with those doing super high volume workouts, because the recovery ability of most normal humans aren't up to it. Though there are genetic anomalies.
Online it seems everyone is just a clean, genetic anomaly.
Though if you are not also a clean, genetic anomaly, I would not recommend taking advice from them.
When I talk about a 2 hour workout, I mean a 2 hour workout. I was at the gym yesterday for about 4 hours, I was not working out the entire time who counts from the time the enter till the time they leave?
I can assure you that no one who I workout with is using gear and we all do between 50 and 100k per workout depending on the day. So it might be prevalent where you workout but not everywhere. One does not need to be a GA to get strong or have stamina it just takes dedication, a good mindset, proper diet and some proper knowledge. Recovery is handled by a proper amount of rest, carbs, protein\BCAA, rest and did I mention rest, gear is not a necessity.
J.Wilkins
Platinum Member
- Jun 5, 2017
- 2,681
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When I started out I figured that to make up for not taking steroids I'd just up the volume to beyond what the steroid users did.
In reality it's the exact opposite, you can do less than half the volume that they do.
PeterScott
Platinum Member
- Jul 7, 2017
- 2,605
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No one but a genetic anomaly or steroid user could handle 4 hours (2 full hours spent actually lifting) in the gym multiple days/week. Who the hell has time for that anyway?
And no, for your average human, getting more sleep/food/BCAAs are not going to make up that difference.
There are big genetic differences among even typical gym visitors.
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/genetics-and-strength-training-just-different/
What you are describing strikes me as anomalous and/or chemically assisted.
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