I'm dealing with morons (warning, work rant)

[shiner]

Idiots, idiots, idiots!!! I've been having to deal with an outside company for the last few days and I'm going insane. They have 3 servers that run a custom written SQL application and they have been running slow since Monday. I've been out and looked over the OS, they are running WinNT 4.0, the SQL install(SQL 7), and all the server hardware and the network connection. Everything checks out A-ok but these idiots insist it is something wrong with the hardware. Why? Because they are clueless. After doing some research and some tests I found that everything else runs fine on these servers and that throughput is excellent across the network since their backups run between 500-600mb per minute. This one app continues to run slow and I've told them over and over again that it's the application and not the server in any way shape or form. They don't want to believe this because they developed the app in house. What is slow on the apps is when it is performing either an update or insert into the SQL database. As an experiment I did some updates and inserts into the database outside their application and surprise surprise they work just fine. Fire up the app and the SQL updates and inserts slow to a crawl. I've shown them this several times and they refuse to see the facts and admit that it's their home grown app. They keep calling my boss and yelling at him that their problem isn't resolved. I have to keep explaining to him what is going on and he can't help but laugh since we have had problems with these dipsticks before but there's not a lot we can do but keep showing them the facts. I actually just found out that they called Microsoft and Compaq this morning and are willing to pay to have some of their engineers come up and look at the problem. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when they get told by those guys that that have an application problem. Programmers, can't live with em, can't shoot em.

 
 

 

[iamwiz82]

programmers cannot be wrong, didnt you know that? Thats why i left CS, the profs were so narrowminded it was unbevlievable.

 

[GISTechnician]

When I first read the title I thought it said Mormons.

 

[Adul]

at least Mormons are easier to deal with.

 

[skace]

" After doing some research and some tests I found that everything else runs fine on these servers and that throughput is excellent across the network since their backups run between 500-600mb per minute."

Our servers have terrible throughput compared to that

 

[djheater]

<< Idiots, idiots, idiots!!!...
&Acirc;  >>



Well it could be worse. I'm going through a situation that paralells yours but it's my own company and bosses treating me that way...

 

[Goth]

Honest programmers like myself are always open to ideas if a problem is found or if a better way to tackle an issue is found. If it is determined by myself or others that a problem is due to a coding error on my part, I don't hesitate to admit the fault was mine and correct it. Just approach me in a reasonable, sensible, logical manner (like the original poster did), and I'll be glad to diagnose and/or fix the problem whether it's my code or someone else's.

Unfortunately, in my line of work, the knee-jerk reaction to a problem is normally "It's a coding problem. It needs to be fixed." This statement is sometimes made with little to no research into the problem and said in a hasty, hateful manner. Sometimes it is a coding error, sometimes it's not. In those cases where it's not (80+% of these are user/ID 10 T errors), the users will rarely accept blame. The other 20% is lack of communication amongst the technical parties involved (programmers, database admins, webserver admins, management). This 20% is easier to correct once everyone is on the same page, but that doesn't always happen either -- especially when one or more of the groups won't accept the blame when it's their error. Correcting the 80% of users who won't accept blame is impossible. The fun really begins once they realize they are the cause of the problem, are informed how to resolve the issue, proceed to screw up again, and once again put the blame on us. :disgust:

A day in the life of a programmer.

 

[vi edit]

Isn't it great to be on the hardware end of things and getting blamed first for things going wrong?

(L)User: My computers too slow, I need a new one!
Me: Try closing down the 12 IE windows you have open, shut down winamp, don't have THE ENTIRE MS office suite open at once, and while you are at, slam you head into your desk to see if it jars something loose up there.

(L)User: This report is taking to long to run, this server sucks!
Me: *Pulls up command prompt, types in top, Program is chewing up 99% of CPU time...hmmmm....I pull up the program see what it's doing, and it's stuck in a loop doing a sort.
Me: Sorry, programmer didn't write the code correctly, not my problem.


Uhg!

 

[docmanhattan]

<< Honest programmers like myself are always open to ideas if a problem is found or if a better way to tackle an issue is found. If it is determined by myself or others that a problem is due to a coding error on my part, I don't hesitate to admit the fault was mine and correct it. Just approach me in a reasonable, sensible, logical manner (like the original poster did), and I'll be glad to diagnose and/or fix the problem whether it's my code or someone else's.

Unfortunately, in my line of work, the knee-jerk reaction to a problem is normally "It's a coding problem. It needs to be fixed." This statement is sometimes made with little to no research into the problem and said in a hasty, hateful manner. Sometimes it is a coding error, sometimes it's not. In those cases where it's not (80+% of these are user/ID 10 T errors), the users will rarely accept blame. The other 20% is lack of communication amongst the technical parties involved (programmers, database admins, webserver admins, management). This 20% is easier to correct once everyone is on the same page, but that doesn't always happen either -- especially when one or more of the groups won't accept the blame when it's their error. Correcting the 80% of users who won't accept blame is impossible. The fun really begins once they realize they are the cause of the problem, are informed how to resolve the issue, proceed to screw up again, and once again put the blame on us. :disgust:

A day in the life of a programmer. >>

amen to that.

I have no issues with making corrections, but the knee-jerk reaction to blaming the coding does tend to make me defensive from time to time. I always get, "What'd you change?!?" first when something doesn't work right. My response, "Well, what were you doing?"

I've just learned to accept the finger being pointed at me first and then moving to actually solving a problem.

 

[Ih8canada]

Tell em to go run it on a Sun machine it could be a platform problem

 

[shiner]

Down in the server room right now. Compaq guy is here and he's laughing about all the stuff I've been telling him. First words out of his mouth after the guys from the other company finished telling him what was wrong were "sounds like you've got a bad program on your hands" I love it. MS guy is supposed to be here in 30 minutes. I need some popcorn. Should be quite a show.

 

[Ih8canada]

you can actually hold a conversation in your server room?? wow heh our's is so loud with all the AC units and server's that you can barely hear yourself talk out loud.

 

[kgraeme]

<< Down in the server room right now. Compaq guy is here and he's laughing about all the stuff I've been telling him. First words out of his mouth after the guys from the other company finished telling him what was wrong were "sounds like you've got a bad program on your hands" I love it. MS guy is supposed to be here in 30 minutes. I need some popcorn. Should be quite a show. >>



Don't tell the MS guy what you think is wrong. In fact, leave the room. The client will be convinced that you are unfairly influencing the situation. Get a beer on the client's dime, then come back to hear the MS people tell them how to write good SQL.

 

[gopunk]

haha, i wish you could get us a vid or just audio

day in and day out i get calls with users tell us that we're the ones that screwed up. day in and day out i crush their egos by explaining to them how their own stupidity was the actual reason. it's kind of satisfying in a way

 

[shiner]

I'm getting ready to leave for lunch. Don't really want to miss the MS guy breaking their hearts but I need to chow and I do think it would be a good idea if I weren't around where he first gets here and just let them explain the problem. This is costing them a fortune. My time alone is $180 per hour.

 

[FoBoT]

if your profile didn't say Tulsa OK in it, i would think you were visiting the company i work at

 

[Fritzo]

I'll vouch for your assesment there SQL is a PIG when it comes to system resources. We run our customer database off of SQL and the server is a dual PIII 900 mhz with 512MB ram....it STILL runs slow. The fact that you eliminated the hardware in a troubleshooting process just shows that they're working off a preconceived notion of what the problem is, and those types of people are impossible to deal with. I just dealt with someone like that 10 minutes ago....cussed up a storm because he couldn't authenticate into the network "for the upteenth time. Do you guys actually know what you're doing? The service is down more than it's up!!!" I looked at the radius server records, and then told him to turn off the capslock when typing in his password (which is his problem every single time). That worked, and he then got angry and hung up. He has it set in his mind that we're the problem, so there's no changing his way of thinking. Don't let it bother you....some people are just like this.

 

[Descartes]

Hey shiner, open up Profiler before you do an update with their program and see what it's really doing. You'll be able to identify rogue connections, whether or not their program is going in some perpetual loop executing the same update a thousand times, etc. Maybe it's calling a stored procedure that's horrible inefficient, or maybe their update statement is horribly inefficient.

Profiler should be able to tell you why their app is so slow, at least from a data access standpoint. Give them direct evidence and they'll really look stupid...

Let us know what the MS consultant finds out.

 

[Descartes]

<< programmers cannot be wrong, didnt you know that? >>



There's no such thing is wrong in the development world, only different degrees of right.

 

[narzy]

<< I'll vouch for your assesment there SQL is a PIG when it comes to system resources. We run our customer database off of SQL and the server is a dual PIII 900 mhz with 512MB ram....it STILL runs slow. The fact that you eliminated the hardware in a troubleshooting process just shows that they're working off a preconceived notion of what the problem is, and those types of people are impossible to deal with. I just dealt with someone like that 10 minutes ago....cussed up a storm because he couldn't authenticate into the network "for the upteenth time. Do you guys actually know what you're doing? The service is down more than it's up!!!" I looked at the radius server records, and then told him to turn off the capslock when typing in his password (which is his problem every single time). That worked, and he then got angry and hung up. He has it set in his mind that we're the problem, so there's no changing his way of thinking. Don't let it bother you....some people are just like this. >>



by golly it is your problem! CASE SeNsItIvE Passwords! what were you thinking! WTH is security?!?!

 

[IGBT]

Yea..your right. Morons. And most of em are day care kids who are now grown up and trying to assimilate into society. Offer them milk and crackers. Mabe that will get a few brain cells firing.

 

[shiner]

<< Profiler should be able to tell you why their app is so slow, at least from a data access standpoint. Give them direct evidence and they'll really look stupid... >>


Sounds like a good idea but to hell with that. After I prove to them that it isn't the OS or hardware(which is what our contract with them covers) then they are on their own. Normally I would do anything I could to help but since they are being suck jerks I'm not going to bother.

 

[kranky]

This morning I had a rare non-tech-related incident.

Me: How much to mail this envelope Priority Mail?
Mailroom Guy: (sorting mail) Put it on the scale, it will tell you at the end of the first line of the display.
Me: It says 34 cents, I know that's not right.
MG: No, look at the end of the first line.
Me: It says 34 cents.
MG: Here, let me do it. Hmmm. Oh, you have a big envelope. The scale doesn't see that, it's 57 cents.
Me [I never insult the staff people]: I thought Priority Mail was three-something?
MG: No, it's 57 cents.
Me: Priority Mail is three-something, isn't it? I'm pretty sure.
MG: No, it's 57 cents because you used a big envelope. It would only cost $3.50 if you want Priority Mail.
Me: Um, yeah, how about Priority Mail?
MG: That's $3.50.

 

[Optimus]

Shinerburke: What is the app written in?

 

[shiner]

<< Shinerburke: What is the app written in? >>


To be honest I don't know. From the looks of these guys I would have to say QBasic. Actually it was probably C or C++ since I know one of their guys is supposedly a guru with C. Don't know but it has been entertaining watching the MS and Compaq guys more or less tell them the same thing I have over and over. They still don't want to believe it though and now the Compaq guy is running some sort of advanced diagnostic tool on the hardware. I've never seen what he has but then again he's actually from Compaq and I'm just a Compaq A.S.E. The MS guy has been a riot, they actually asked him at one point what certs he had. His answer "Well I taught the MCSE core, SQL, and Proxy classed in Redmond HQ for 2 years. Is that good enough for you?" I about fell out of my chair. They had been looking down their noses at me since I'm only a lowly MCSE, CCNA, and Compaq A.S.E. Of course they probably don't really know what any of the certs mean but they all love that alphabet soup after their names on their business cards. I don't know what kind of programming certs there are but their business cards have all sorts of acronyms all over them. Pretty pathetic display if you ask me. Anyone that needs to advertise like they do must have some issues leftover from their potty training days.