"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

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Obsoleet

Platinum Member
Oct 2, 2007
2,181
1
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
What is it with partisan America? When one side wants to award Sarah Palin a halo and the other side is busy grafting on two horns a tail. Even as a partisan democrat I have to find many things to admire about the Palin family, ordinary Americans, the daughters of two school teachers, some real reformist credibility, and somehow elevated from a small state Governor to a Vice Presidential pick overnight.

Maybe as a partisan democrat I should be dancing in the streets at the various scandals that have been uncovered regarding her pro life stance and the disconnect with her daughter. But as hard as I may try, I cannot summon up even an iota of hate against the Palin family. To hate them would be to hate America, and rightly or wrongly, John McCain could not have done a better job in picking his VP because she embodies some core GOP principles.

And in terms of a sort of a Charles Dickens, it was the best of times, it was the worse of times, I would hope the Sarah Palin story and debate can be healthy for America.

And God willing, as the year turns from 2008 to 2009, Bristol nee Palin will give birth to a new American citizen this country can all embrace.
Yeah, that's why I registered as an independent.

It's only rooting for sports teams for most people, and the fact is they are as dumb as most sports fans as well. Besides, I'd rather get the salad bar than order off the menu. :)
Maybe someday one of the parties will act reasonable. The Democrats are in better shape than the Republicans if they can keep to their principles. So far, not doing a good job of that.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
61
91
Originally posted by: loki8481
guilt by association, huh?
:confused:

Yes, if a VP candidate was once a member of a fringe party that calls for breaking away from the United States of America, I think you should suffer some more bad press.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: loki8481
guilt by association, huh?
:confused:

Yes, if a VP candidate was once a member of a fringe party that calls for breaking away from the United States of America, I think you should suffer some more bad press.
And your thoughts about a Presidential candidate part of a racist Church for 20 years? Did the government create AIDS to kill the black man? Does this Presidential candidate believe that?
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
5
0
Nice thread title.

Let me think...
Obama belonged to Rev Wright's church for 20 years.
Thus I can make thread titles that have Wrights words, but make it seem like Obama was the one saying them...

Palin herself did not say the quote in the thread title, at least try to be a little honest in your attempts at trolling.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
61
91
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: loki8481
guilt by association, huh?
:confused:

Yes, if a VP candidate was once a member of a fringe party that calls for breaking away from the United States of America, I think you should suffer some more bad press.
And your thoughts about a Presidential candidate part of a racist Church for 20 years? Did the government create AIDS to kill the black man? Does this Presidential candidate believe that?
Those were not the expressed views of the church. The church was not, and is not, racist. This party expressly calls for withdrawal from the United States.
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: loki8481
guilt by association, huh?
:confused:

Yes, if a VP candidate was once a member of a fringe party that calls for breaking away from the United States of America, I think you should suffer some more bad press.
And your thoughts about a Presidential candidate part of a racist Church for 20 years? Did the government create AIDS to kill the black man? Does this Presidential candidate believe that?
Those were not the expressed views of the church. The church was not, and is not, racist. This party expressly calls for withdrawal from the United States.
and that's the difference between Obama's church and the AIP. The AIP has one goal, and one goal only, get a vote on whether Alaska should secede.


Anyway, I think the bigger overall issue how McCain must not have done any vetting of Palin and her selection was more because of a need of a game changer after it was clear the Dem convention was going very well.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: loki8481
guilt by association, huh?
:confused:

Yes, if a VP candidate was once a member of a fringe party that calls for breaking away from the United States of America, I think you should suffer some more bad press.
And your thoughts about a Presidential candidate part of a racist Church for 20 years? Did the government create AIDS to kill the black man? Does this Presidential candidate believe that?
Those were not the expressed views of the church. The church was not, and is not, racist. This party expressly calls for withdrawal from the United States.
Alright, let me correct myself. This Presidential candidate was friends and considered this controversial racist Reverend part of his family. And even considered him his spiritual leader.

That's even worse...
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
0
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: Pepsei
3 "scandals" in less than a week.... that's pretty bad
Have you heard of Barack Hussein Obama II?
you are correct, she stopped being part of the group this year so that's good enough for me.
her personal message to AIP convention

now, the AIP's motive is to infiltrate other parties to push their agenda. Palin said she'd only take the VP slot if it was 'good for Alaska'. it's probably just a coincidence.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
31,712
5,704
126
Originally posted by: SlingXShot
Topic Title: "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
Good for her. Unfortunately I cannot accept her saying those words seeing as she decided to accept a ticket on one of America's worst institutions - a major political party. If she truly believed she was an Alaskan she would have pressed for seceding from America?s corrupt institutions.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Vic just pointed out that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... or maybe that he who is without sin should cast the first stone...

That seems to have been forgotten in the rush to pelt Obama with the rocks of what other people said or did...

Palin's video clip was instructive, however- it's "States Rights", Alaskan style. Now she and the rest of the Alaskan establishment can go to Washington for more Federal money, to keep this "independence" movement form getting out of hand, to quell the grumbling... nice ploy for the state who already enjoys the greatest influx of federal money of any state, bar none...
Yup, Alaska has it goin' on. Unlicensed conceal and open carry of handguns, NEGATIVE state income taxes (you get a check from the state,) no sales taxes, AND tons of money from Uncle Sugar. I'd say she ran her state just fine. :)

Yeh- a great example of how those "social programs" and "pork" so much denounced on the rightwing work to keep their constituents fat, dumb, happy and loyal to the "Conservative" cause...

Nice of them and the rest of red state america to be sucking the rest of us dry while they rave against us...
You should stop giving us ingrates money then, and shrink the federal government to such an extent that it's no longer a problem then. If you want to make stupid government cheese giveaway programs part of your platform, then expect us to take take take until your program flounders as it should. That's the fastest way to get us back to a responsible means of governance.

Blame the victims, yeh, that's it...

So much for honest pride and self-reliance, huh?

What are those "Values" so cherished on the rightwing, other than greed and getting over on the rest of us?
We're willing to temporarily suspend honest pride and self reliance in order to provide for the general welfare of the country by breaking all the welfare programs. ;)
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
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Originally posted by: Hafen
Don't see the quote...

So why does she keep sending lobbyists to Washington to make Alaska the biggest leach in the union? Trying to just take us for all we're worth? Time to cut them off looks like.
You don't see the quote because she never said it. That quote is from Joe Vogler.

I've explained the reasoning for why Alaska gets back so much federal money. Obviously it's a big state with a very spread out and growing population. Highways, bridges and other infrastructure normally paid for by federal dollars in other states are expensive to build in Alaska. And that's if you want to look at the bridges and roads and pork. By far the greatest percentage of federal dollars sent to Alaska are paid out to individuals in the form of social security and medicare.

And for what it's worth, Alaska only got back about $5.4 billion more than it paid out in 2005. Per capita return it was #3. For some reason everyone wants to get their panties in a wad over .0016% of the federal budget. (Assuming a $3 trillion budget)

But digging a little deeper... as part of the Statehood Compact with the US, Alaska is supposed to get 90% of all the revenue it generates through natural resource development on federal lands and the Federal Govnt should get 10%. The Fed has never held up their end of the bargain, choosing to ignore the statehood agreement and split revenues 50/50. That's billions and billions and billions of dollars owed to Alaska over the last 50 years that were never paid out.

Some see what you call 'pork' as simply getting back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.

http://www.usembassy.at/en/dow...d/pdf/anwr_revenue.pdf 10th page

The manner is which royalties are split between other states and the federal government
differs. For all states except Alaska, direct royalties under the Mineral Leasing Act (MLA)
are divided equally (50-50) between the state in which the deposits are located and the
federal government. The MLA also provides that all states except Alaska also get back 40%
from the Reclamation Fund (established by the Reclamation Act of 1902), in effect giving
each state 90% of the royalties and the federal government 10%. Alaska does not receive
allocations from the Reclamation Fund, so to equalize royalty treatment among the states,
the Alaska Statehood Act and the Federal Land Policy and Management Act provide that
Alaska?s royalty share is 90% of the direct royalties (rather than 50%).
This is from an ANWR report. Alaska is routinely squeezed for a 50/50 split. If ANWR were opened, oil remained at its current levels and the Fed took 50% instead of 10%, Alaska would stand to lose around $70 billion over the life of that field. (About $3.5 billion per year) And that is just one field. That doesn't count Prudhoe (which is bigger than ANWR), Kuparuk, Alpine, Nikiski and all the other fields that they didn't get full value on over the last 20-30 years. And THAT'S just oil... Add in coal, gas, gold, copper, tin... It adds up.

So don't worry! The Fed is still ahead in the who-owes-who game by about $1-2 billion per year.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Excellent OP commentary from the usual suspects. Will read again!
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
1
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Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
Originally posted by: loki8481
guilt by association, huh?
I don't think the quote itself is the issue - this is a secessionist party that seeks to establish Alaska as an independent nation. Which kind of is an issue when you're seeking to become Vice President.

In other news, I read today that Sarah Palin never held a passport before she became governor of Alaska, meaning she had never left the United States until age 42, two years ago. And this is the person the Republican party thinks should be a heartbeat from the Presidency? I just don't get it, at all.
You could actually leave the US and visit several countries without a passport until recently. Also, I think that she would needed to have left the US to go to Alaska. At some point you're leaving US territory traveling between the mainland and the state. So technically she has probably left the US!
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
Originally posted by: TechAZ
non story.

NEXT
She was a member of a group whose primary goal is to call for a secession vote. From the website.

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:

1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: TechAZ
non story.

NEXT
She was a member of a group whose primary goal is to call for a secession vote. From the website.

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:

1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
Do you people believe everything that the left is throwing at the wall? Sheesh. Bunch of F'n fools.
She has been a Republican since she turned 18 according to voter registration documentation.


Next BS story.....
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: TechAZ
non story.

NEXT
She was a member of a group whose primary goal is to call for a secession vote. From the website.

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:

1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
Do you people believe everything that the left is throwing at the wall? Sheesh. Bunch of F'n fools.
She has been a Republican since she turned 18 according to voter registration documentation.


Next BS story.....
This isn't coming from the left, it is coming from the leadership of Alaska's third largest, and most right-wing, party (AIP vice chair George Clark and Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP)
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: TechAZ
non story.

NEXT
She was a member of a group whose primary goal is to call for a secession vote. From the website.

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:

1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
Do you people believe everything that the left is throwing at the wall? Sheesh. Bunch of F'n fools.
She has been a Republican since she turned 18 according to voter registration documentation.


Next BS story.....
This isn't coming from the left, it is coming from the leadership of Alaska's third largest, and most right-wing, party (AIP vice chair George Clark and Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP)
I know what they have stated, but the left and the media have done nothing but parrot and embellish the lie. None of them did their homework and just bought the lie hook line and sinker(why am I not surprised).
 

351Cleveland

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2001
1,381
6
81
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: TechAZ
non story.

NEXT
She was a member of a group whose primary goal is to call for a secession vote. From the website.

The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:

1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
Do you people believe everything that the left is throwing at the wall? Sheesh. Bunch of F'n fools.
She has been a Republican since she turned 18 according to voter registration documentation.


Next BS story.....
This isn't coming from the left, it is coming from the leadership of Alaska's third largest, and most right-wing, party (AIP vice chair George Clark and Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP)
This "show me your friends" fight is really not one that the Democrats want to have in an open and fair media. If you want to go that route, you bring up (again) all kinds of things on Biden and Obama that neither wants out there any more than humanly possible.

Personally, assuming this link to be genuine, I take it over Obama's links to his radical inner circle any day of the week. Last I checked, the AIP hadnt blown up any US goverment buildings.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
So we've got two counterarguments here:
1) Blame the messenger, despite the fact that the information is completely accurate and we have no reason to believe the direct quotes from party leadership were fabricated. This story isn't at all based on commentary from the news outlet, it is allegations coming from party leadership.
2) Change the topic to Ayers.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Farang
So we've got two counterarguments here:
1) Blame the messenger, despite the fact that the information is completely accurate and we have no reason to believe the direct quotes from party leadership were fabricated. This story isn't at all based on commentary from the news outlet, it is allegations coming from party leadership.
2) Change the topic to Ayers.
Uhhh... hello? The story is a complete fabrication - Palin's voter registration documents are out there - They show she's been an (R) since she was 18.

But yes, it is more than just the party official at play here. The left and the "media"(if it truly was independant) should have verified the facts before running with them. But once again, they showed their true colors - run with the "story" if it's "bad".
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Farang
So we've got two counterarguments here:
1) Blame the messenger, despite the fact that the information is completely accurate and we have no reason to believe the direct quotes from party leadership were fabricated. This story isn't at all based on commentary from the news outlet, it is allegations coming from party leadership.
2) Change the topic to Ayers.
Uhhh... hello? The story is a complete fabrication - Palin's voter registration documents are out there - They show she's been an (R) since she was 18.

But yes, it is more than just the party official at play here. The left and the "media"(if it truly was independant) should have verified the facts before running with them. But once again, they showed their true colors - run with the "story" if it's "bad".
Voter registration doesn't mean the story is dead. I can go be an active, participating member of the Democratic party for a short while and never change my registration. As far as I can tell from this website (http://ltgov.state.ak.us/elections/faqs.php#pgelec), a registered Republican can vote in AIP primaries but Republican primaries are closed so there is no incentive to switch registration.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Farang
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Farang
So we've got two counterarguments here:
1) Blame the messenger, despite the fact that the information is completely accurate and we have no reason to believe the direct quotes from party leadership were fabricated. This story isn't at all based on commentary from the news outlet, it is allegations coming from party leadership.
2) Change the topic to Ayers.
Uhhh... hello? The story is a complete fabrication - Palin's voter registration documents are out there - They show she's been an (R) since she was 18.

But yes, it is more than just the party official at play here. The left and the "media"(if it truly was independant) should have verified the facts before running with them. But once again, they showed their true colors - run with the "story" if it's "bad".
Voter registration doesn't mean the story is dead. I can go be an active, participating member of the Democratic party for a short while and never change my registration. As far as I can tell from this website (http://ltgov.state.ak.us/elections/faqs.php#pgelec), a registered Republican can vote in AIP primaries but Republican primaries are closed so there is no incentive to switch registration.
:roll: Sure.... ok... if you need to cling to that sliver of theoretical nonesense then fine - have at it. The people who live in this place called reality will accept this story for what it was - BS.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
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That wasn't even a response.. you basically just told me "Sure, whatever." Thanks for responding so eloquently to my (valid) point.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Farang
That wasn't even a response.. you basically just told me "Sure, whatever." Thanks for responding so eloquently to my (valid) point.
:roll: Do your own damn homework if you think this story is credible but there has been NOTHING shown that suggests it is true and voter registration documents that show it to be false.

From the OP's link -
"It never came up in conversation," Clark recalls. "But when she joined the party, our platform was right under her nose." Clark says that Palin left the party and became a Republican in 1996, when she first ran for mayor of Wasilla.
Uh... "joined the party"? Nope
"left the party and became a Republican in 1996"? Nope.


Going to try again there skippy? :roll:
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
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Again you're depending your argument entirely on voter registration documents (and I assume McCain's denial also), which as I've shown do not completely debunk the allegations as registering as an AIP is completely pointless so if she was only in a couple years it is plausible she would've never changed her registration. Hell I don't even know what my own registration is now, it isn't important.
 

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