Nope, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that most of them are not deported with criminal charges. Most of them are deported using Civil Hearings and by result of that they are not "criminals." And, yes, there is also a presumption of innoncence. Unless the government proves that they've committed a crime then people have no more right to say they are a criminal than their next door neighbor.
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that most of them are not deported with criminal charges. Most of them are deported using Civil Hearings and by result of that they are not "criminals." And, yes, there is also a presumption of innoncence. Unless the government proves that they've committed a crime then people have no more right to say they are a criminal than their next door neighbor.
Dave, you don't deserve my respect or my consideration. Especially after asking if I was "an illegal from South America" and then refusing to say why you asked that question.
I simply enjoy, respect, and appreciate other cultures and hardworkers. I don't mind if they are black, white, blue, yellow, or pink. The US has a very shoddy immigration policy and Mexico has been left out. Cubans can gain asylum by touching US soil. Puerto Ricans were given citizenship in 1917 to help out in the war effort and it remains that way today. Why do we treat Cubans and Puerto Ricans differently? Actually, I can understand Puerto Ricans to a degree. Secondly, why is it that the focus is on Mexican immigrants and ignores Eastern Europeans or Canadians that overstay their visas? What about Asians that do the same or come here without documentation? Mexicans cannot afford the money for the arduous process that it takes to become a legal immigrant, nor are there as many opportunities for them to do so. Our quota system is whacked out, and we offer more visas to countries that DO NOT have many immigrants than countries that have waiting immigrants. I sympathize with someone wanting to make a better life for themselves. It is why the colonists decided to come here uninvited and without visas, as I don't recall the Indians giving them permission. Finally, there are many legal Mexicans here that became citizens under the Gadsden Purchase and the Mexican Cession. Not only did this separate families, but it also gave citizenship to a lot of Mexicans. A lot of people act as if the bulk of Mexicans are illegal, but it is quite simply a fact that many Hispanics in the Southwest have been there for several generations. So, yes, I do see a bit of bigotry and racism.
Now, Dave, what's your response? That you still can't get a job?
Well any attempt at serious immigration reform isn't going to get off the ground unless we can stop with the double standards - a la the Wet foot/dry foot rule we have for Cubans. If they get on a raft and put their foot on the beach(or an old pier from a demolished bridge several hundred meters offshore) then they get the red carpet treatment here.
Then you will have no problem footing the bill yourself, huh? Let's start with the $7 billion it costs the states to educate illegals for a single year, and then you can write checks for the billions in free baby delivery and emergency medical care they leech off the states, when those of us that were born here have to PAY FOR THOSE SERVICES OURSELVES.
Thats mighty white of you, oh great bigot hunter.
Wow, so much hate and discrimination towards America and Americans of course I don't "deserve my respect or your consideration.
So much misinformation to respond to.
You don't seem to comprehend the difference between Puerto Rico and Cuba other than they are seperate Islands. Last I checked Puerto Rico is not in control by a fat greedy Dictator that will make you dissapear because he feels like it.
None of your sympathy explains your love for Mexicans to the point you do in total disregard for America and Americans. Hatred is the only thing that comes through clearly.
As far as my ability to get a job. I have been working since my Political run in with Georgia. In fact I worked with illegal Mexicans in Georgia for $5 hr mowing lawns.
You should be happy.
A real solution: Remove the word "born" from section 1 of the 14th amendment.
We are one of the few Countries in the world that has right of birth for citizenship.
Women are flying into the US just to have a child here inorder to gain entry early.
They hop the Southern boarder for the same reason. It's called an "anchor baby".
The States are going to have to take this Country back from the Feds & Corp.USA.
...Galvanized
We are one of the few Countries in the world that has right of birth for citizenship.
Women are flying into the US just to have a child here inorder to gain entry early.
They hop the Southern boarder for the same reason. It's called an "anchor baby".
The States are going to have to take this Country back from the Feds & Corp.USA.
...Galvanized
First, I'd like you to prove the costs instead of relying on the rhetoric of a uber-conservative think tank or a Congress Critter trying to get re-elected. So, just post a peer-reviewed study that shows they don't pay taxs and have such massive costs.
Anyway, I pay much more in taxes than you do, and I'm more than fine with helping them out.
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 14,552
- 9,927
- 136
Ever heard of taxes? Hmm, those are paid by most US Citizens, which then go to pay for social aidfor illegals, including health care. Also, hospitals giving out free health care to illegals is causing healthcare for everyone else to go up. (NO, not the only problem but it does add to it)
You know my Uncle paid his way through college working construction, but when I tried to do the samething I couldn't find a job that paid more than $6/hr because they would all just rather hire illegals.
I worked my way through college being a carny (amoung other things, but being a carny was my main thing) paid me really well. Now my boss has realized he can pay illegals half as much as I started out so he doesn't hire any more americans. Nice thing about my boss is he at least only hires ones that speak english a little bit.
Taking a play from the Bush playbook, Dave? Nowhere did I show any hatred toward my country or any discrimination. To overlook our immigration problems, or think we are always right, and fair is much more of a travesty than the tripe and feces you propose. Not only am I a proud American, but I'm proud that some of us are willing to stand up and fix what is broken instead of just whining like you do. Go make another thread claiming 8.00 gas prices because of one station that was gouging or had broken computers.
So, it is like a typical Dave post!
Right, yeah, I have no clue. You are the one, Dave, that is entirely ignorant of history and instead you rely on trolling to get your point across.
Uh, Puerto Rico has even better benefits than Cubans do because they were "ceded" to us by the Spanish in 1898. Fidel's rise to power was much later, and the current US policy toward Cuban asylum is the result of a very powerful and wealthy Cuban Lobby. Don't tell me I'm spouting information, because you are the one who absolutely has no idea about the politics in this situation.
Classic Dave trolling. Not only did I never disregard Americans or America, but I also explained myself clearly. I think Mexicans are getting a raw deal and our immigration situation is flawed. We should fix it instead of engaging in pipedream fantasies like deporting all aliens.
LOL. This is truly a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. If anyone "hates" on this forum it is you. I've got less than 20 posts in P&N in the past 6 months to a year, so I'm certainly not the one that preaches scorn. Not only do you advocate total economic collapse of our country, but you've approached "God Hates Fags" in your level of vitriol and invective that you spew against many Americans. Some of your targets: businesses, anyone making more than you, SUV drivers, American Troops, legal and illegal immigrants, etc. The list could go on and on. I think anyone reading P&N knows how much of a two-bit huckster and fraud you are.
Dave, I'm always amazed by the fact that you've done every job there is to do, can comment on every position with an insider's perspective, and seemingly dealing with constant tragedy.
The only way for you to make me happy is for you to finally grow a pair. Admit Donna left you because you are a nutcase. Admit that you couldn't find work because of your own inabilities instead of blaming it on George W. Bush or the fact that you got into legal trouble in Georgia. It gets old reading the same old "I'm the victim" crap from you while watching YOU spew hatred. Don't project your shortcoming onto me. I'd love to tell you what I really think about you, but I'd rather not get banned.
Why are you defending the illegal crossings and criminal acts? You know the ones that are illegal, just as well as I do. Why do you want to have to pay for everything they get for free, yet want us to do without?
You even call them aliens, why not illegals? This is what they are and it is people like you that will come them coming in droves. What kind of benefits are you receiving because they are here? You don't build houses or own a farm, do you?
Our country needs to quit playing games with these people and get our borders straight before we do become the North American Union. I am sure you are all for this though, right?
Don't be ridiculous. What do you want, a copy of Ladies Home Journal? Just use Google, the numbers are everywhere. If you don't like the ones I provided, then pick the ones you like best, and PAY ALL OF IT YOURSELF. I have a family of my own to support, and unlike illegal immigrants, I have to actually pay for their health care and education.
First you play the race card, then you ask for a "peer-reviewed study" as hard proof for numbers that are blared all over the news every night (you oughta watch it sometime), and then you make the statement that "I pay much more in taxes than you do" when you obviously have no idea if thats true or not. Sorry, but I will need to see your tax return as solid proof. :laugh:
I'm not defending anything. I'm saying that most of you have formed your opinions based on hysteria and most of you are willfully ignorant of the law.
1. Don't own a farm.
2. Don't build houses.
3. Don't own a business.
I call them aliens because people here are under the assumption that any Mexican is illegal. People are under the assumption that anyone that speaks Spanish is a Mexican. Don't say those two things are not true, because I see it with my own eyes all the time across this nation. There is also a strong myth that they don't pay taxes and that they abuse the welfare system. Illegal Immigrants are less likely to be on welfare than African Americans or a bulk of lowerclass US Citizens. They also pay taxes.
Ah, one of the OMG ZEE NO THE UN IS GOING TO TAKE OVER people, right? I am critical of NAFTA, CAFTA, and Free Trade Agreement of the Americas. Some of those treaties will lead to exploitative labor and lost jobs for Americans. There's not enough in them to prevent human rights violations and the advantage of not having to follow the regulations that workers do here. I am, however, for trade agreements and treaties. But not the kind that are solely there to exploit cheap labor in other countries, line the pockets of Corporate America, etc. But, there are plenty of GOOD things in those agreements as well, and globalizing certain aspects of our economy is beneficial to us all as a whole.
I really can't stand to be bitched at by people that shop at Wal-Mart. You yell about those "damn illegals" but then you shop at Wal-Mart daily. Please, get a clue. A vast majority of Wal-Mart's products are manufactured in China, and our expanding trade deficit with China is leading to a higher national debt, more interest to pay, and a loss of jobs. Who took those manufacturing jobs? Who is buying our debt? (China). So, no, I can't take people seriously who bitch about illegal immigration yet shop at Wal-Mart, because their own arguments are hypocritical.
You made the claim, so you have to back it up. That's how it works, partner.
Saying that don't pay taxes is nothing more than a complete and total fvcking lie. Again, if you want to make such claims then prove it. Prove they don't pay taxes.
Yeah, I never watch the news. Not only do I read the Economist, The Atlantica and others, but I also read my daily newspaper, CNN, Drudge, Financial Times, and Fark everyday. The problem is I *am* informed, so you emotional arguments and appeals to authority don't work on me. Finally, unless you paid 50k or more in Capital Gains last year then you didn't pay more in taxes. You say I don't know, but it isn't really that hard for me to tell. Weren't you just complaining about struggling to support your family? Obviously you've got money falling out of the cupboard!
So:
1. Provide proof of your numbers.
2. Provide proof that illegals don't pay taxes.
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 14,552
- 9,927
- 136
Well I have personally seen illegals working construction and in the carny business paid under the table many many times. I know for a fact, because they have told me, that none of the illegals I have worked with as a carny have ever paid taxes. Sure some illegals might pay taxes, but it is not the norm.
There is no question that illegal aliens are criminals. We are specifically talking about the illegal ones, as someone else has said-- that means that they broke laws entering this country illegally.
It's easy to understand this even if you don't know anything about the law. Illegal means "prohibited by law".
In the end, that whole argument is silly anyway; it stems from a quote in the article attributed to an illegal-immigrant halfwit. The question is not whether they are criminals (that stupid quote should never have found its way into the article), but whether they should be deported and/or charged.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the main impacts of kicking all the illegal immigrants out of the country (yes, those same criminal ones) would be:
1) Somewhat higher prices on some kinds of food that is still hand-picked. This is as it should be-- no grower should be allowed to pay less than the minimum wage, another crime.
2) Higher prices on some clothing made illegally in this country. This will impact only the owners of small labels running sweatshops, who are again criminals who should rightly be sent to jail.
3) Higher wages for household and lawn workers. Personally, I couldn't give less of a damn.
4) More job availability for construction workers (and carnies). My brother-in-law is a highly skilled construction worker who has been out of work twice in the past two years, so it's not like job demand is outstripping supply. Kicking criminals out of the country should not hobble construction.
Edit: Added number 4 to account for construction workers
It's easy to understand this even if you don't know anything about the law. Illegal means "prohibited by law".
In the end, that whole argument is silly anyway; it stems from a quote in the article attributed to an illegal-immigrant halfwit. The question is not whether they are criminals (that stupid quote should never have found its way into the article), but whether they should be deported and/or charged.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the main impacts of kicking all the illegal immigrants out of the country (yes, those same criminal ones) would be:
1) Somewhat higher prices on some kinds of food that is still hand-picked. This is as it should be-- no grower should be allowed to pay less than the minimum wage, another crime.
2) Higher prices on some clothing made illegally in this country. This will impact only the owners of small labels running sweatshops, who are again criminals who should rightly be sent to jail.
3) Higher wages for household and lawn workers. Personally, I couldn't give less of a damn.
4) More job availability for construction workers (and carnies). My brother-in-law is a highly skilled construction worker who has been out of work twice in the past two years, so it's not like job demand is outstripping supply. Kicking criminals out of the country should not hobble construction.
Edit: Added number 4 to account for construction workers
Someone's illegal status can be proven without needing to know the specifics of how they entered the country. If we have two billion dollars to spend on each Stealth aircraft, I submit that we can spare billions to solve major societal issues by finding and deporting the illegal aliens. We can also spare billions more to properly secure points of entry into the country, which is still not satisfactorily done.
I agree. I would vote for this-- but of course I won't get the chance, until the day in the distant future when we have national referenda in this country. An alternate solution (perhaps a better one) would be to add something to the effect that the birth has to be legally recognized, and define that to mean that the mother is not in this country illegally.
It has nothing to do with Nafta at all. It is not about free trade. it is about combining Canada, The United States and Mexico, hence North American Union. If it is not stopped it will take place in 2010.
There is a ton of difference shopping at Wal-mart than complaining about illegals. Chinese are not 11 million strong illegal in our country. We buy where the prices are lower, but since you are rich I assume you buy at the highest priced US only operated stores? If you shop at the Mall, do you think all that is Amercian made?
I would not have a problem with anyone being here, if they did it correctly. If they are illegal, they are criminals and need to be sent home. The problem is, since you think it is better to pay someone with cash, knowing they will not pay taxes just to keep more money in your pocket, you will never understand.
Good, the whole state should be raided, not just this one town.
Of course the resident Republicans said it wasn't true that the state is over run by Mexico when I was there.
9-15-2006 Immigration raid cripples Georgia Chicken town
STILLMORE, Ga. - Trailer parks lie abandoned. The poultry plant is scrambling to replace more than half its workforce. Business has dried up at stores where Mexican laborers once lined up to buy food, beer and cigarettes just weeks ago.
This Georgia community of about 1,000 people has become little more than a ghost town since Sept. 1, when federal agents began rounding up illegal immigrants.
The sweep has had the unintended effect of underscoring just how vital the illegal immigrants were to the local economy.
More than 120 illegal immigrants have been loaded onto buses bound for immigration courts in Atlanta, 189 miles away. Hundreds more fled Emanuel County. Residents say many scattered into the woods, camping out for days. They worry some are still hiding without food.
Last month, the federal government reported that Georgia had the fastest-growing illegal immigrant population in the country. The number more than doubled from an estimated 220,000 in 2000 to 470,000 last year. This year, state lawmakers passed some of the nation's toughest measures targeting illegal immigrants, and Republican Gov. Sonny Perdue last week vowed a statewide crackdown on document fraud.
The poultry plant has limped along with half its normal workforce. Crider increased its starting wages by $1 an hour to help recruit new workers.
Stacie Bell, 23, started work canning chicken at Crider a week ago. She said the pay, $7.75 an hour, led her to leave her $5.60-an-hour job as a Wal-Mart cashier in nearby Statesboro. Still, Bell said she felt bad about the raids.
"If they knew eventually that they were going to have to do that, they should have never let them come over here," she said.
Of course the resident Republicans said it wasn't true that the state is over run by Mexico when I was there.
9-15-2006 Immigration raid cripples Georgia Chicken town
STILLMORE, Ga. - Trailer parks lie abandoned. The poultry plant is scrambling to replace more than half its workforce. Business has dried up at stores where Mexican laborers once lined up to buy food, beer and cigarettes just weeks ago.
This Georgia community of about 1,000 people has become little more than a ghost town since Sept. 1, when federal agents began rounding up illegal immigrants.
The sweep has had the unintended effect of underscoring just how vital the illegal immigrants were to the local economy.
More than 120 illegal immigrants have been loaded onto buses bound for immigration courts in Atlanta, 189 miles away. Hundreds more fled Emanuel County. Residents say many scattered into the woods, camping out for days. They worry some are still hiding without food.
Last month, the federal government reported that Georgia had the fastest-growing illegal immigrant population in the country. The number more than doubled from an estimated 220,000 in 2000 to 470,000 last year. This year, state lawmakers passed some of the nation's toughest measures targeting illegal immigrants, and Republican Gov. Sonny Perdue last week vowed a statewide crackdown on document fraud.
The poultry plant has limped along with half its normal workforce. Crider increased its starting wages by $1 an hour to help recruit new workers.
Stacie Bell, 23, started work canning chicken at Crider a week ago. She said the pay, $7.75 an hour, led her to leave her $5.60-an-hour job as a Wal-Mart cashier in nearby Statesboro. Still, Bell said she felt bad about the raids.
"If they knew eventually that they were going to have to do that, they should have never let them come over here," she said.
who would have thought that enforcing the labor laws of this country would lead to companies actually increasing pay for their workers instead of relaying on an illegal/underground workforce. I thought these were jobs that no one wanted? The only terrible thing is that the government didn't also go after the companies and CEOs who are breaking the laws.
You make it sounds as if the poor are living like kings.
That didn't happen over night -- the economy has adjusted to the influx of illegals, and the lack of enforcement; slowly, more employers wised up to the situation, and figured out they can pocket more money by hiring illegals. The more they hired, the more illegals had a reason to sneak in. Needless to say, when you have so many people clamoring for work, your reduce the wage, which in turn, will drive away citizens; also, you probably won't feel any pressure to increase productivity, or modernize your operation, since you can simply hire more people.
If there wasn't such a pool of cheap labor, then the market would do its magic, where companies would be forced to offer a living wage, as well as make themselves more efficient. A living wage wouldn't necessarialy translate to way higher prices, since we need to factor in competition, which would undoubtly force increases in productivity/efficiency.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 10K
-
Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)- Started by Vattila
- Replies: 13K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 7K
Facebook
Twitter