Illegal Immigration Issue: Securing our borders

[thecoffeeguy]

We need to secure our borders now. The threat of illegal immigration, Al Qaeda agents getting into our country is a real threat. We must do something to protect our country.

You are ignorant if you think we are untouchable. We are seriously vunerable.

I am not a racisit at all. I have a pretty diverse family.

I am against illegal immigrants coming to this country "Illegally."

Someone tell me why it is ok for people to come this country Illegally? The truth is, it is not.

I have no problems with people wanting to come to this country "legally."

We need to do something and the time is now.
For anyoe of you who have kids, it is their future and their kids future that is in question.

Contact your local Represenative, contact congress, email, write, sign petitions, FAX whatever.

lets get something done...


http://www.numbersusa.com

http://www.alamoalliance.org

http://minutemanhq.com/hq/

http://www.minutemanproject.com/default.asp?contentID=83

 

[Todd33]

*Yawn*

Did Fox news get you all riled up lately or have you been working on this problem for years?

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Todd33
*Yawn*

Did Fox news get you all riled up lately or have you been working on this problem for years?

Glad to see you care.

Here are some more for you:

http://www.saveourstate.org

http://www.minutemanproject.com/default.asp?contentID=83

 

[Kwaipie]

OMFG the terra, the terra.

Meanwhile, cherries now cost twice as much as last year

 

[OutHouse]

what happend to the 8,000 NG troops Bush said he was going to send down to the border?

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Citrix
what happend to the 8,000 NG troops Bush said he was going to send down to the border?

check the links...tons of info...it is disturbing.

 

[Stunt]

A couple questions:

Why are you more deserving of a first world lifestyle than any other person in the world?
By supporting only legal immigrants, these people because of their skills are more likely to take jobs from americans.

What terrorists have come up through your border?
Most terrorists are bankrolled and enter straight into the US, they don't use el cheapo mexican smuggling channels.

a) Illegals have little to no impact on standards of living or wages
b) Excessive force for border security will hurt the economy far more than an inflow of labour

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt
A couple questions:

Why are you more deserving of a first world lifestyle than any other person in the world?
By supporting only legal immigrants, these people because of their skills are more likely to take jobs from americans.

What terrorists have come up through your border?
Most terrorists are bankrolled and enter straight into the US, they don't use el cheapo mexican smuggling channels.

a) Illegals have little to no impact on standards of living or wages
b) Excessive force for border security will hurt the economy far more than an inflow of labour

Why don't you go to some of those links and see what the repercussions would be. There is plenty of information on those sites that will fully answer all of your questions.

So let me ask you something then.

Why is it ok to enter this country illegally? If you want to come to this country, fine, just do it the right way.


I said by having weak borders, terrorists are more likely to be able to get into this country.


A) Very wrong in deed. They have HUGE ramifications on our infrastructure, including medical and education.
B) How would it hurt the economy?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Stunt
A couple questions:

Why are you more deserving of a first world lifestyle than any other person in the world?
By supporting only legal immigrants, these people because of their skills are more likely to take jobs from americans.

What terrorists have come up through your border?
Most terrorists are bankrolled and enter straight into the US, they don't use el cheapo mexican smuggling channels.

a) Illegals have little to no impact on standards of living or wages
b) Excessive force for border security will hurt the economy far more than an inflow of labour

You obviously havent read AT ALL the real numbers impact of illegal immigration. I'll forgive your ignorance, but I have a question for you-

If someone flies in from another country and doesnt havea visa, would you support just letting them in?

and

should we have an "open border" policy in regards to Mexico and Canada? Would you support just freely passing back and forth?

And if your answers are yes, which I suspect they are, how do you propose the United States maintains its sovereignty?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Stunt
A couple questions:

Why are you more deserving of a first world lifestyle than any other person in the world?
By supporting only legal immigrants, these people because of their skills are more likely to take jobs from americans.

What terrorists have come up through your border?
Most terrorists are bankrolled and enter straight into the US, they don't use el cheapo mexican smuggling channels.

a) Illegals have little to no impact on standards of living or wages
b) Excessive force for border security will hurt the economy far more than an inflow of labour

1. he is not saying that nobody is less deserving of a first world lifestyle. what he is saying is that the people who come here should do it legally.

2. dunno. we have NO IDEA who has crossed the border and with what.

3. Yes illegals have a direct impact on standard and living wages. The monfort meat packing plant in Greely Colorado used to be a good place to work for many people, the wages were $15.00 and up. but in the past 5 years Monfort has hired nothing but illegals and the wages have dropped to $8.00 an hour.
a. The city of denver had a job posted that only spanish speakers would be considered. WTF??? doenst anybody see whats wrong with that?

4. how much is our economy hurt now by our government services hemorraging money to pay for free health care, education, jail cost, welfare, WIC, government forms printed in spanish...

 

[thecoffeeguy]

To those who are do not know the seriousness of this issue, I'll just provide a lot of links with tons of info:

http://www.alipac.us/

http://www.steinreport.com/

http://www.saveourstate.org/links.html

http://www.americanpatrol.com/

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/coa/memdisp...ea08cbd838825717200738864?OpenDocument

http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/

http://grades.betterimmigration.com/

http://www.answerla.org/

http://www.aztlan.net/

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/thousand_words/baldwin_park_2005may14.html

http://borderfenceproject.com/

http://www.borderguardians.org/index.php

http://www.ccir.net/

http://unitedstates.fm/campo.htm

http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/LatinoCaucus/

http://chicago.indymedia.org/feature/display/70264/index.php

http://minutemanhq.com/b2/index.php/simcox/2005/10/13/p52#comments

http://www.ctcitizensforimmigrationcontrol.com/

http://danielisright.blogspot.com/

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/

http://www.elconcilio.org/programs/programs.htm

http://www.wildmanharrold.com/labor_lib...Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act.htm

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer

http://www.firecoalition.com/

http://www.forthecause.us/

http://www.friendsoftheborderpatrol.com/

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL32735.pdf

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/

http://www.wehirealiens.com/

http://www.heritage.org/

I don't know how many of you have children or whom may be getting grandchildren soon, but the future of this country hangs in the balance.

If you care for your country and the future of the country, the time to be heard is now. It is time for the people to make noise and be heard.

I encourage anyone who cares to step up and make a difference on this issue.

Maybe we can get the mods to make this a sticky so we can update links daily.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Stunt
A couple questions:

Why are you more deserving of a first world lifestyle than any other person in the world?
By supporting only legal immigrants, these people because of their skills are more likely to take jobs from americans.

What terrorists have come up through your border?
Most terrorists are bankrolled and enter straight into the US, they don't use el cheapo mexican smuggling channels.

a) Illegals have little to no impact on standards of living or wages
b) Excessive force for border security will hurt the economy far more than an inflow of labour

You obviously havent read AT ALL the real numbers impact of illegal immigration. I'll forgive your ignorance, but I have a question for you-

If someone flies in from another country and doesnt havea visa, would you support just letting them in?

and

should we have an "open border" policy in regards to Mexico and Canada? Would you support just freely passing back and forth?

And if your answers are yes, which I suspect they are, how do you propose the United States maintains its sovereignty?

They dont. the people behind this want one north america. hence the amero and the super highway from Mexico to Canada.

 

[Stunt]

Your links are propoganda and heavily biased. I do not go to sites deticated to a common goal/purpose.

What is legal and illegal is a temporal rule or lack of a rule based on history with different ways of life and views. Sure it's illegal, but so is driving over the speed limit and a bunch of other little wacky bilaws. Don't let laws form your opinions.

All classes are required for an economy to do well; just because people enter "illegally" doesn't mean they do not contribute to productivity and economic growth.

"I said by having weak borders, terrorists are more likely to be able to get into this country."
And standing outside with a golf club is going to make me more likely to be hit by lightning...so what? Fact of the matter is; if your goal is reduced terrorism, a heavily deffended border is probably the worst use of money. Spending the money on intelligence and routes terrorists actually use is far more productive.

a) Infrastructure, medical, education are costs for Americans already...you must look at the increased productivity and growth as well. They go hand in hand; you cannot assume it is a straight up loss, nobody is that stupid.

b) Increased government spending with nothing to show for it. At least in a war and with military you get some manufacturing jobs, some R&D...but with border security you are getting nothing in return but more public servants and a huge drain on the economy; have you seen the deficit lately? The money wasted on border patrol far outweighs the supposed costs of illegals once you take into accout the productivity and consumption of these people.

All you've shown the forum is you have a long list of propoganda sites and no opinons or proof justifying your views. This issue is far more complex than you and your crappy sites are going to show.

 

[Stunt]

The mods will never sticky such a worthless thread lined with propoganda.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Your links are propoganda and heavily biased. I do not go to sites deticated to a common goal/purpose.

What is legal and illegal is a temporal rule or lack of a rule based on history with different ways of life and views. Sure it's illegal, but so is driving over the speed limit and a bunch of other little wacky bilaws. Don't let laws form your opinions.

All classes are required for an economy to do well; just because people enter "illegally" doesn't mean they do not contribute to productivity and economic growth.

"I said by having weak borders, terrorists are more likely to be able to get into this country."
And standing outside with a golf club is going to make me more likely to be hit by lightning...so what? Fact of the matter is; if your goal is reduced terrorism, a heavily deffended border is probably the worst use of money. Spending the money on intelligence and routes terrorists actually use is far more productive.

a) Infrastructure, medical, education are costs for Americans already...you must look at the increased productivity and growth as well. They go hand in hand; you cannot assume it is a straight up loss, nobody is that stupid.

b) Increased government spending with nothing to show for it. At least in a war and with military you get some manufacturing jobs, some R&D...but with border security you are getting nothing in return but more public servants and a huge drain on the economy; have you seen the deficit lately? The money wasted on border patrol far outweighs the supposed costs of illegals once you take into accout the productivity and consumption of these people.

All you've shown the forum is you have a long list of propoganda sites and no opinons or proof justifying your views. This issue is far more complex than you and your crappy sites are going to show.

wow you really are blind and have no desire for the United States of America to retain its sovereignty.

 

[Stunt]

The Economist and other reputable economic think tanks have pointed out studies like this in this New York Times

A study published earlier this year by three economists ? David H. Autor of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Mr. Katz of Harvard and Melissa S. Kearney of the Brookings Institution ? observed that income inequality in the bottom half of the wage scale has not grown since around the mid-1980's.

Even economists striving hardest to find evidence of immigration's effect on domestic workers are finding that, at most, the surge of illegal immigrants probably had only a small impact on wages of the least-educated Americans ? an effect that was likely swamped by all the other things that hit the economy, from the revolution in technology to the erosion of the minimum wage's buying power.

When Mr. Borjas and Mr. Katz assumed that businesses reacted to the extra workers with a corresponding increase in investment ? as has happened in Nebraska ? their estimate of the decline in wages of high school dropouts attributed to illegal immigrants was shaved to 4.8 percent. And they have since downgraded that number, acknowledging that the original analysis used some statistically flimsy data.

Assuming a jump in capital investment, they found that the surge in illegal immigration reduced the wages of high school dropouts by just 3.6 percent. Across the entire labor force, the effect of illegal immigrants was zero, because the presence of uneducated immigrants actually increased the earnings of more educated workers, including high school graduates. For instance, higher-skilled workers could hire foreigners at low wages to mow their lawns and care for their children, freeing time for these workers to earn more. And businesses that exist because of the availability of cheap labor might also need to employ managers.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Stunt
Your links are propoganda and heavily biased. I do not go to sites deticated to a common goal/purpose.

What is legal and illegal is a temporal rule or lack of a rule based on history with different ways of life and views. Sure it's illegal, but so is driving over the speed limit and a bunch of other little wacky bilaws. Don't let laws form your opinions.

All classes are required for an economy to do well; just because people enter "illegally" doesn't mean they do not contribute to productivity and economic growth.

"I said by having weak borders, terrorists are more likely to be able to get into this country."
And standing outside with a golf club is going to make me more likely to be hit by lightning...so what? Fact of the matter is; if your goal is reduced terrorism, a heavily deffended border is probably the worst use of money. Spending the money on intelligence and routes terrorists actually use is far more productive.

a) Infrastructure, medical, education are costs for Americans already...you must look at the increased productivity and growth as well. They go hand in hand; you cannot assume it is a straight up loss, nobody is that stupid.

b) Increased government spending with nothing to show for it. At least in a war and with military you get some manufacturing jobs, some R&D...but with border security you are getting nothing in return but more public servants and a huge drain on the economy; have you seen the deficit lately? The money wasted on border patrol far outweighs the supposed costs of illegals once you take into accout the productivity and consumption of these people.

All you've shown the forum is you have a long list of propoganda sites and no opinons or proof justifying your views. This issue is far more complex than you and your crappy sites are going to show.

wow you really are blind and have no desire for the United States of America to retain its sovereignty.

he is canadian and the issue doesnt concern him, at least not yet anyway. im through talking to him since he has no idea of the problem.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
wow you really are blind and have no desire for the United States of America to retain its sovereignty.

Illegal immigrants will be the primary factor for the US maintaining super-power status through the future. These people come to the US to become consumers and lead productive hard-working lives. outlined in this thread

This is something I've noticed throughout my stay here at ATPN; everyone complains about how illegals are ruining the economy and the american way of life.

This is absolute crap and people need to understand that illegals are not ruining your country but in fact helping it progress. If europe has taught us anything, its minimum wage and low population growth leads to economic stagnation.

One of the first things you learn in macroeconomics is that unemployment is proportional to minimum wage. Even though the US has a minimum wage, illegals fill that otherwise impossible scenario of having no minimum wage.

Another aspect to consider is the American population; predictions these days estimate the population will be over 450m by 2050, most of that growth coming from immigration and the higher birth rate of illegals and other immigrants. The sheer amount of growth needed to bring all these people to the standard of living inherent in the American Society itself will create much more growth than anyone can imagine.

The taxation issue is a moot point considering the red southern states have reduced the income tax component and the next generation of mexican-americans are registering to have access to the same services and opportunities as every other american citizen.

That's my take on the illegal situation in the US, I am willing to have a full on debate on this as people seem to be quite passionate about this subject. Hopefully people will start to understand that these people indeed are consumers as well, will help grow the economy and make the workforce larger.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Stunt
The mods will never sticky such a worthless thread lined with propoganda.

Had this guy posted a worthless thread supporting your views ,along with links .would you not have called that thread the most accurate portayal of this subject you have read in years?? rofl

You have no clue whatsoever!

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Your links are propoganda and heavily biased. I do not go to sites deticated to a common goal/purpose.

So websites that provide credible information is propoganda?

What is legal and illegal is a temporal rule or lack of a rule based on history with different ways of life and views. Sure it's illegal, but so is driving over the speed limit and a bunch of other little wacky bilaws. Don't let laws form your opinions.

Did you just compare speeding to illegal immigration? Those two are so completely different, it is assinine to even compare them in the same sentence!

All classes are required for an economy to do well; just because people enter "illegally" doesn't mean they do not contribute to productivity and economic growth.

Again, why is it ok to enter this country illegally?

"I said by having weak borders, terrorists are more likely to be able to get into this country."
And standing outside with a golf club is going to make me more likely to be hit by lightning...so what? Fact of the matter is; if your goal is reduced terrorism, a heavily deffended border is probably the worst use of money. Spending the money on intelligence and routes terrorists actually use is far more productive.

The borders are a huge liability for terrorsits to infiltrate into this company. You can literally walk into this country without a hitch. Tell me, if you wanted to get into this country as a terrorist, wouldn't it be a lot easier to go the border route?

a) Infrastructure, medical, education are costs for Americans already...you must look at the increased productivity and growth as well. They go hand in hand; you cannot assume it is a straight up loss, nobody is that stupid.

Cost for legal Americans, not illegal's, whom can receive the same medical and education benefits, if not better than what we can get. Plus, they don't have to pay a dime. The tax payers pay for it.

b) Increased government spending with nothing to show for it. At least in a war and with military you get some manufacturing jobs, some R&D...but with border security you are getting nothing in return but more public servants and a huge drain on the economy; have you seen the deficit lately? The money wasted on border patrol far outweighs the supposed costs of illegals once you take into accout the productivity and consumption of these people.

So a open border is your solution? Brilliant.

All you've shown the forum is you have a long list of propoganda sites and no opinons or proof justifying your views. This issue is far more complex than you and your crappy sites are going to show.

I've shown plenty.
You've pretty much shown that ignorance is bliss.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Stunt
Your links are propoganda and heavily biased. I do not go to sites deticated to a common goal/purpose.

What is legal and illegal is a temporal rule or lack of a rule based on history with different ways of life and views. Sure it's illegal, but so is driving over the speed limit and a bunch of other little wacky bilaws. Don't let laws form your opinions.

All classes are required for an economy to do well; just because people enter "illegally" doesn't mean they do not contribute to productivity and economic growth.

"I said by having weak borders, terrorists are more likely to be able to get into this country."
And standing outside with a golf club is going to make me more likely to be hit by lightning...so what? Fact of the matter is; if your goal is reduced terrorism, a heavily deffended border is probably the worst use of money. Spending the money on intelligence and routes terrorists actually use is far more productive.

a) Infrastructure, medical, education are costs for Americans already...you must look at the increased productivity and growth as well. They go hand in hand; you cannot assume it is a straight up loss, nobody is that stupid.

b) Increased government spending with nothing to show for it. At least in a war and with military you get some manufacturing jobs, some R&D...but with border security you are getting nothing in return but more public servants and a huge drain on the economy; have you seen the deficit lately? The money wasted on border patrol far outweighs the supposed costs of illegals once you take into accout the productivity and consumption of these people.

All you've shown the forum is you have a long list of propoganda sites and no opinons or proof justifying your views. This issue is far more complex than you and your crappy sites are going to show.

wow you really are blind and have no desire for the United States of America to retain its sovereignty.

he is canadian and the issue doesnt concern him, at least not yet anyway. im through talking to him since he has no idea of the problem.

Actually we have tons of illegals up here.
Most of your illegals are from temp works who just stay. Canada has a very large farming industry and we have many illegals who stay; and to be honest I don't care. I am very much aware of the "problem"; brushing me off for my nationality is small-minded and irrelevant.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Most of your illegals are from temp works who just stay. Canada has a very large farming industry and we have many illegals who stay; and to be honest I don't care. I am very much aware of the "problem"; brushing me off for my nationality is small-minded and irrelevant.

Fortunately for most Americans, we do care.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Stunt
The mods will never sticky such a worthless thread lined with propoganda.

Had this guy posted a worthless thread supporting your views ,along with links .would you not have called that thread the most accurate portayal of this subject you have read in years?? rofl

You have no clue whatsoever!

The thread is useless...
It's full of biased websites with obvious motives and offered little for opinion other than a bunch of crap about terrorists and denying hes racist :roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt
A couple questions:

Why are you more deserving of a first world lifestyle than any other person in the world?
By supporting only legal immigrants, these people because of their skills are more likely to take jobs from americans.

What terrorists have come up through your border?
Most terrorists are bankrolled and enter straight into the US, they don't use el cheapo mexican smuggling channels.

a) Illegals have little to no impact on standards of living or wages
b) Excessive force for border security will hurt the economy far more than an inflow of labour

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Stunt
Your links are propoganda and heavily biased. I do not go to sites deticated to a common goal/purpose.

What is legal and illegal is a temporal rule or lack of a rule based on history with different ways of life and views. Sure it's illegal, but so is driving over the speed limit and a bunch of other little wacky bilaws. Don't let laws form your opinions.

All classes are required for an economy to do well; just because people enter "illegally" doesn't mean they do not contribute to productivity and economic growth.

"I said by having weak borders, terrorists are more likely to be able to get into this country."
And standing outside with a golf club is going to make me more likely to be hit by lightning...so what? Fact of the matter is; if your goal is reduced terrorism, a heavily deffended border is probably the worst use of money. Spending the money on intelligence and routes terrorists actually use is far more productive.

a) Infrastructure, medical, education are costs for Americans already...you must look at the increased productivity and growth as well. They go hand in hand; you cannot assume it is a straight up loss, nobody is that stupid.

b) Increased government spending with nothing to show for it. At least in a war and with military you get some manufacturing jobs, some R&D...but with border security you are getting nothing in return but more public servants and a huge drain on the economy; have you seen the deficit lately? The money wasted on border patrol far outweighs the supposed costs of illegals once you take into accout the productivity and consumption of these people.

All you've shown the forum is you have a long list of propoganda sites and no opinons or proof justifying your views. This issue is far more complex than you and your crappy sites are going to show.

Wow, you really are blind and have no desire for the United States of America to retain its sovereignty.

He is canadian and the issue doesnt concern him, at least not yet anyway.

I'm through talking to him since he has no idea of the problem.

His continual commenting on U.S. issues is 110% slanted in favor of the Bush Regime.

I believe he must be paid for his spewage in some way since it is so rabid.

It's the only reasonable explanation.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

Originally posted by: Stunt

The thread is useless...
It's full of biased websites with obvious motives and offered little for opinion other than a bunch of crap about terrorists and denying hes racist :roll:

And why am I a racist? Where did that come from? Because im concerned for my country?

You obviously don't know tit for tat because there are many many Hispanic-Americans who support this same issue.

But, you are from Canada and don't care.