"The first illegal immigrants in America were Pilgrims"
what ya think about that?
Quote from Pbs video "race is the place"
what ya think about that?
Quote from Pbs video "race is the place"
illegal immigrants
- Thread starter lyssword
- Start date
its a video made to educate people about race/ism in US and that quote wasn't made by pbs, but by a native american, I don't know exactly who it was, but it reflects the view of native americans/hawaiians. Yes native americans probably didn't have a sovereign nation, it was millions of "indians" (which bythe way is probably insulting cuz they were confused with "real indians" as in asian india which has elephants and such 
) living in tribes, which were killed off of course by the immigrants
) living in tribes, which were killed off of course by the immigrants
Not a Sovereign nation, I would imagine we invaded over 100 sovereign nations. Most don't exist anymore. The Navaho and western Nations have survived only because they occupied undesired land at the time. How many treaties did we violate with those sovereign nations after taking their land? The Sioux Nation to this day still claims their holiest ground, the black hills, which was stolen from them after Custer violated their Sovereign nation even though the treaty from a few years earlier recognized the Sioux's claim to the black hills. The Cherokee nation tried to integrate and became successfull farmers and traders and were evicted under force of arms from their land in Georgia. So yes, in fact the Pilgrims did invade and conquer sovereign nations, many of them. That was a point of colonialism afterall.
Genocide? I don't think colonizing = genocide. I'd like to see your sources that say that American settlers set out to exterminate the Native American population of America.
And if you're talking about wars, don't bother. The Native American groups fought amongst each other all of the time. It wasn't exactly peaceful on the plains.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
- 19,216
- 1
- 61
That's a whole different argument from the OP.
Fact: The pilgrims weren't illegal immigrants. They broke no law concerning immigration to come over here.
Now you can argue as to the morality of their actions once they got here. You can argue that their offspring stole land from other people and claimed it as their own. You can argue that this country was built on genocide and slavery. But what is not for debate is the status of the first white settlers being "illegal immigrants". They were not.
Are you an expert on each tibes laws? You don't think that the tribes had laws saying that the land between two landmarks was for the exclusive use of the tribe?
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
- Jun 27, 2005
- 19,216
- 1
- 61
Actually I am.
With respect to the specific tribe in question their immigration code (sec. 12, paragraph 4, line 6) does indeed make reference to specific lands and defines those lands as being in the collective posession of said tribe. It goes on further (sec 12, paragraph 5) to specifically state that any other native tribe entering such lands will have a valid passport or other type of approved visa. It further states that if a member of another native tribe does not have said identification then application can be made via the statute contained in sec. 13, paragraph 1.
While the immigration laws were specific toward other native populations they did not mention anything as to the status of evil, marauding, genocidial, white-devil europeans seeking assylum from religious persecution. Therefore... the pilgrims were not, in fact, in violation of any specific immigration law.
I hope we can now put this issue to rest.
yep a technicality (since they were not originally aware of the white peoples they made no law for them)
ok /endtopic
ok /endtopic
before you rest your case, would u indulge me and other interested parties as to your reasoning for describing all the european settlers as evil, marauding, and genocidal. it would seem from my prior knowledge of the subject that most of the land obtained by the early colonists was done so through legitimate purchase. i don't doubt that evil men arrived on the shores of America, but i imagine they were the ones seeking land and money, not religious freedom.
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