Illegal Immigrants Demand Federal Money for Education!

[Kadarin]

The Devil's Advocate argument in this case is a weak one: Improved access to college-level education can't help illegal aliens be better citizens, because by definition they aren't citizens to begin with. They do not pay taxes, they do not vote. It does, however, help them become better parasites. The problem is that in the southwestern US, there's a large hispanic constituency who will be likely to support this..

Now, Devil's Advocate, please explain why illegal aliens are more deserving of college funding than are US citizens...

 

[BiggieC]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The Devil's Advocate argument in this case is a weak one: Improved access to college-level education can't help illegal aliens be better citizens, because by definition they aren't citizens to begin with. They do not pay taxes, they do not vote. It does, however, help them become better parasites. The problem is that in the southwestern US, there's a large hispanic constituency who will be likely to support this..

Now, Devil's Advocate, please explain why illegal aliens are more deserving of college funding than are US citizens...

Exactly, their are many AMERICAN citizens that are qualified to go to college but can't afford it. Why, in what world, does it make sense for the government to pay for non citizen, illegal mexicans, to go to college while there are so many hardworking U.S. parents that cant afford to send their kids to college. Help them out first. This whole idea makes me angry.

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: NetworkDad
Originally posted by: athithi

Wasn't the West Coast Mexico's to begin with?

No.

To be more specific, California, if I remember correctly, was a Mexican province before it was annexed by the U.S - I'm not debating who it should've belonged to - just stating what I remember as fact.

And there are plenty of xenophobes and closet-xenophobes in this board. I don't usually let them get to me, but in the guise of being candid these people keep pushing the envelope with regards to how offensive they can be and get away with it. Ridicule 'Political Correctness' and call the foreigners names and it will be acceptable

But I've met too many nice Americans to let a few rotten apples form any negative opinion in my mind 🙂 - thank heavens for that!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BiggieC

The premise is all wrong IMO. The borders should be wide open to any one who can get here that's what made this country it's freedom and freedom of movement, and you can always move to Agora Hills, Dana Point or some similar all white place if you don't like being around hispanics.

Wow, you are a nut. As if we dont have enough problems with drug smuggling, terrorism, health care, public education, welfare...

Lets just let everyone come in. Im afraid you fail to realize, if we did this, the very thing these immigrants are coming here for would fail to exist.

What does this have to do with illegal immigrants let alone ones from down south? I may be wrong but I think the terrrorists were wealthy legal students here from Saudi arabia.
And Welfare- Show me one study which tell a story of immigrants taking more welfare than US born citizens., You won't cause it not there.

They come here for the freedoms we enjoy like a job and property ownership and civil rights how will this fail to exist if more people come here? I just think you and folks like you have forgotten what it takes to get what your parents have and want it for free without competition. Or worse you're just a plain biggot. I don't here any bitchin' about european immigrants ... oooooo no.

 

[rgwalt]

Carbonyl-

I'm all for people securing a better life for themselves, but my tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for it. It isn't the government's job to help people that aren't citizens of this country.

Ryan

 

[BiggieC]

I may be wrong but I think the terrrorists were wealthy legal students here from Saudi arabia.

Yup, your wrong.

And Welfare- Show me one study which tell a story of immigrants taking more welfare than US born citizens., You won't cause it not there.

Of course U.S. citizens take more welfare than illegals, there are millions more U.S. citizens here in the States than there are illegals, at least for the time being. Percentage wise, illegal immigrants are far more likely to be on welfare or some sort of federal funding than is the average legal U.S. resident.

I don't here any bitchin' about european immigrants ... oooooo no.

European immigrants for the most part contribute more than they take, and they aren't abusive of immigration policies as a whole.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: rgwalt
Carbonyl-

I'm all for people securing a better life for themselves, but my tax dollars shouldn't have to pay for it. It isn't the government's job to help people that aren't citizens of this country.

Ryan

Well Id rather pay for that then sending it out to some dictator in some hope he'll use it wisely. But for the most part I'm not for the feds paying for university education for your "average" student. Sure if your in the top 5% of HS class and testing, but then you get scholarships.

 

[GoodToGo]

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: NetworkDad
Originally posted by: athithi

Wasn't the West Coast Mexico's to begin with?

No.

To be more specific, California, if I remember correctly, was a Mexican province before it was annexed by the U.S - I'm not debating who it should've belonged to - just stating what I remember as fact.

And there are plenty of xenophobes and closet-xenophobes in this board. I don't usually let them get to me, but in the guise of being candid these people keep pushing the envelope with regards to how offensive they can be and get away with it. Ridicule 'Political Correctness' and call the foreigners names and it will be acceptable

But I've met too many nice Americans to let a few rotten apples form any negative opinion in my mind 🙂 - thank heavens for that!

Will you please get off your high horse? Life is not as rosy as you think it is.

First of all about California being a Mexican province, there are many countries which were "provinces" of foreign powers. Consider India which was under British rule. Lets kick all the Indians OUT of India

First of all I am not an American. I am a starry eyed Indian who came to the land of opportunity. My Father payed my way through college and right now Grad school is taking care of my income. Do I deserve to become an immigrant of this country? For legally coming to this country, for being a skilled person in my field, for having an open mind(yes I do have an open mind but this issue pisses me off) and for loving America, I think I deserve a chance. Do I have a problem if citizens of other countries immigrate? Of course not, why should I as I am an immigrant myself! However I hate the fact people from other countries who have no skills, who consider Americans "gringos" and break the laws left and right get welfare, funds allotted to fund their children and what not. Maybe the whole idea of coming into America legally was dumb. I should become a Mexican citizen and cross the border. Finito, all my problems are solved:disgust:

 

[Peetoeng]

I believe Texas already allows children of illegals to attend public colleges with in-state tuition. It's part politic and part pragmatic.
If this to be seen simply in black and white ala Javert from Les Miserables, then nothing more is worth discussing, especially during
current economic downturn.

 

[bolido2000]

The scary thought is looking at how hispanics reproduce in 30 years they will have enough political power to rule the country. Don't they know that the chances of getting out of poverty decreases if you are having 5 kids when you are only 23? :frown:
Then they'll complain that society denies them opportunity

 

[Yomicron]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
won't someone please think of the child^H^H^H^H^H hispanics!

😉

LOL....Funniest thing I've read all day.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: BiggieC

The premise is all wrong IMO. The borders should be wide open to any one who can get here that's what made this country it's freedom and freedom of movement, and you can always move to Agora Hills, Dana Point or some similar all white place if you don't like being around hispanics.

Wow, you are a nut. As if we dont have enough problems with drug smuggling, terrorism, health care, public education, welfare...

Lets just let everyone come in. Im afraid you fail to realize, if we did this, the very thing these immigrants are coming here for would fail to exist.

What does this have to do with illegal immigrants let alone ones from down south? I may be wrong but I think the terrrorists were wealthy legal students here from Saudi arabia.
And Welfare- Show me one study which tell a story of immigrants taking more welfare than US born citizens., You won't cause it not there.

They come here for the freedoms we enjoy like a job and property ownership and civil rights how will this fail to exist if more people come here? I just think you and folks like you have forgotten what it takes to get what your parents have and want it for free without competition. Or worse you're just a plain biggot. I don't here any bitchin' about european immigrants ... oooooo no.

The reason you didn't hear many complaints about illegal european immigrants (or any other race) is because their number pale in comparison to the latinos. There're also a lower proportion of illegals among those overall class of immigrants compared to those of the latinos. Personally, I don't care if you're some fat latinos, or some fat italians, or some fat chinese. I'll treat you the same and chew you the same as well.

Once these illegal immigrants contribute to the system with their hard earned cash, then they can bitch and complaint about not getting the benefit that's granted by the federal government, which is funded by the someone else money. Before that, they're nothing but a bunch of people that simply trying to get a freebie out of someone else contribution, without contributing themselves.

And before you complaint and say that these people did contribute to the US society with their hard work, so does a lot of US citizen, and on top of it they still have to pay the gazilion taxes as to support the government nor does they enjoy a free pass in life, doing the same class of work that these immigrants do. Now welfare leech are a different matters, for which I'll gladly take any hard working illegal immigrants, instead of those parasites any day.

 

[Tallgeese]

nope
nada
zip
zilch
zero
nah-uh
no way
step off
bite me

and a hearty...

HELL FVCKING NO!!!!

 

[gleong]

Unbelievable. It's like an article I read over the summer about a family suing the INS when their relatives died in the desert trying to come into the country illegally. Apparently, they got lost along the way, and it's obviously not their fault they died, the INS should have installed more water dispensers! :disgust:

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: GoodToGo

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: NetworkDad
Originally posted by: athithi

Wasn't the West Coast Mexico's to begin with?

No.

To be more specific, California, if I remember correctly, was a Mexican province before it was annexed by the U.S - I'm not debating who it should've belonged to - just stating what I remember as fact.

And there are plenty of xenophobes and closet-xenophobes in this board. I don't usually let them get to me, but in the guise of being candid these people keep pushing the envelope with regards to how offensive they can be and get away with it. Ridicule 'Political Correctness' and call the foreigners names and it will be acceptable

But I've met too many nice Americans to let a few rotten apples form any negative opinion in my mind 🙂 - thank heavens for that!

Will you please get off your high horse? Life is not as rosy as you think it is.

First of all about California being a Mexican province, there are many countries which were "provinces" of foreign powers. Consider India which was under British rule. Lets kick all the Indians OUT of India

First of all I am not an American. I am a starry eyed Indian who came to the land of opportunity. My Father payed my way through college and right now Grad school is taking care of my income. Do I deserve to become an immigrant of this country? For legally coming to this country, for being a skilled person in my field, for having an open mind(yes I do have an open mind but this issue pisses me off) and for loving America, I think I deserve a chance. Do I have a problem if citizens of other countries immigrate? Of course not, why should I as I am an immigrant myself! However I hate the fact people from other countries who have no skills, who consider Americans "gringos" and break the laws left and right get welfare, funds allotted to fund their children and what not. Maybe the whole idea of coming into America legally was dumb. I should become a Mexican citizen and cross the border. Finito, all my problems are solved:disgust:

Your post completely lacks coherence. I would just ignore it, but since you've made it in response to my post I am intrigued. What exactly are you talking about? I get the general idea that you are disagreeing with something I said. But what was that about kicking Indians out of India and your father paying for your college education and grad school taking care of your income? How the heck did you manage to compare California as a former Mexican province to India as a former British colony?!!! I'd love to see you explain your post and in what remote manner it formed a response to mine! Thanks in advance!

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: NetworkDad
Originally posted by: athithi

Wasn't the West Coast Mexico's to begin with?

No.

To be more specific, California, if I remember correctly, was a Mexican province before it was annexed by the U.S - I'm not debating who it should've belonged to - just stating what I remember as fact.

And there are plenty of xenophobes and closet-xenophobes in this board. I don't usually let them get to me, but in the guise of being candid these people keep pushing the envelope with regards to how offensive they can be and get away with it. Ridicule 'Political Correctness' and call the foreigners names and it will be acceptable

But I've met too many nice Americans to let a few rotten apples form any negative opinion in my mind 🙂 - thank heavens for that!

What's so hard to understand that some people do get upset if they're being taken advantage of by some other group of people ? These illegal immigrants doesn't pay taxes that is used partly to pay for those educational funds, so why do they have any right for it ? And yes, I do agree that undeserving welfare recipient that doesn't contribute to the general population, should not receive a single penny as well.

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: athithi
What's so hard to understand that some people do get upset if they're being taken advantage of by some other group of people ? These illegal immigrants doesn't pay taxes that is used partly to pay for those educational funds, so why do they have any right for it ? And yes, I do agree that undeserving welfare recipient that doesn't contribute to the general population, should not receive a single penny as well.

Not hard to understand at all - their anger is perfectly justified. They are precisely behaving like angry people. I am not saying anything different. They get angry (justifiably), they curse and they insult (but they rarely do anything constructive about it). They let this anger cloud their thoughts and influence their opinions to the extent that they begin to direct their anger at all foreigners in general. Somehow, I find that offensive and wrong and am voicing my opinions against it. If you haven't noticed it already, I voted 'No' at the poll. I actually agree with the basic issue at hand. I, however, disagree with the comments that go overboard - and there are plenty of those right here in this thread 🙁

 

[BiggieC]

Q]

I, however, disagree with the comments that go overboard - and there are plenty of those right here in this thread 🙁[/quote]

Who are you to say what is going overboard, and why should it be of any concern to anyone not to offend you. No one is using rascist slurs or comments. People are concerned about illegal immigration, and much of that immigration is coming from a specific race. You, like many others, are too afraid of hurting anyones feelings or saying something that may offend someone, even if it is how you feel. Unfortunately there are a lot of people like you who can't sack up and take tough stances on tough issues. You are too concerned with wording and pleasing everyone. There are people that get offended in every arguement, so the hell what.

 

[sancho]

<<---- Made in USA by illegal aliens

The fact of the matter is that in most cases, the argument cannot be made that illegal aliens are "sapping" the US economy by leeching off welfare and demanding freebies from the feds. Most places that hire illegals do so quite knowingly, yet at the same time require some kind of social security/ID, whether fake or real to keep it all looking legit on paper. They do collect taxes from these people, and since the illegal worker tries to stay under the radar, he/she does not usually file taxes at the end of the year. Now before you use this as another reason to ship them all out of here in boxcars, think about it... these people are not making six-figure incomes where they would end up owing taxes at the end of the year. Quite the contrary, they would most likely receive a refund, but since they don't file, guess what: Uncle Sam keeps the cash.
Most people that come here illegally come to work and make a better life for themselves and their family. I can't remember the last time I saw a Mexican illegal panhandling for some spare change, but I can tell you of many streets around here where seemingly able-bodied legal residents are holding up "Will work for food" signs and yet won't make an effort to get a real job. I can almost bet you that if you offered them a job cutting grass and trimming trees, they'd flat out turn you down, you see it's a much easier way to earn a living if all you do is sit on some intersection. You've got to admit, the jobs the illegal immigrant will take are far from dream jobs, and would most likely go unfilled or cost a hell of a lot more to get done were it not for them.

I think I'll end my rant now, get off my soapbox, etc... I just wanted to inject a little reason into the argument. Take it as you will.

 

[GoodToGo]

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: GoodToGo

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: NetworkDad Originally posted by: athithi

Wasn't the West Coast Mexico's to begin with?

No.

To be more specific, California, if I remember correctly, was a Mexican province before it was annexed by the U.S - I'm not debating who it should've belonged to - just stating what I remember as fact. And there are plenty of xenophobes and closet-xenophobes in this board. I don't usually let them get to me, but in the guise of being candid these people keep pushing the envelope with regards to how offensive they can be and get away with it. Ridicule 'Political Correctness' and call the foreigners names and it will be acceptable

But I've met too many nice Americans to let a few rotten apples form any negative opinion in my mind 🙂 - thank heavens for that!

Will you please get off your high horse? Life is not as rosy as you think it is. First of all about California being a Mexican province, there are many countries which were "provinces" of foreign powers. Consider India which was under British rule. Lets kick all the Indians OUT of India

First of all I am not an American. I am a starry eyed Indian who came to the land of opportunity. My Father payed my way through college and right now Grad school is taking care of my income. Do I deserve to become an immigrant of this country? For legally coming to this country, for being a skilled person in my field, for having an open mind(yes I do have an open mind but this issue pisses me off) and for loving America, I think I deserve a chance. Do I have a problem if citizens of other countries immigrate? Of course not, why should I as I am an immigrant myself! However I hate the fact people from other countries who have no skills, who consider Americans "gringos" and break the laws left and right get welfare, funds allotted to fund their children and what not. Maybe the whole idea of coming into America legally was dumb. I should become a Mexican citizen and cross the border. Finito, all my problems are solved:disgust:

Your post completely lacks coherence. I would just ignore it, but since you've made it in response to my post I am intrigued. What exactly are you talking about? I get the general idea that you are disagreeing with something I said. But what was that about kicking Indians out of India and your father paying for your college education and grad school taking care of your income? How the heck did you manage to compare California as a former Mexican province to India as a former British colony?!!! I'd love to see you explain your post and in what remote manner it formed a response to mine! Thanks in advance!

Normally a person with "holier than thou" attitude deserves to flamed. But for now I will play along. Make sure you have some paper and a pencil to "comprehend" my posts.

I am trying to compare myself with the average mexican immigrant. Heck why only me, you could compare the average Indian immigrant and still arrive to the same conclusion. I came into the US on a F1 visa. So that makes me a legal alien. In any case, I did my undergrad education over here and am continuing on to my grad education. My father paid for the undergrad and the college takes care of the grad education. How does that matter? We contributed to the American system by paying 18 grand a year for my education. Then I, as an engineer, worked for my university in order to use my knowledge for the better of the university and myself. I am a law abiding citizen who hasnt gotten into any trouble other than a few speeding tickets. Allright, now this is my picture. Many Indians are the same place as I am and are working their @sses off. Now lets move on to the illegal immigrant picture. He is not educated. He is not law abiding(goto places like Miami and you will know what I am talking about). He doesnt contribute to the economy by spending or investing money here. Are you getting the trend here? Now you would ask what has this got to do with anything? After two years, I will get a job(I hope!) and get a H1 visa. Then after 5 years probably I will get a permanent residence and then hopefully onto the citizenship. The whole process takes me 11 years to complete after working, worrying that I dont get thrown off my job and lose my visa status etc etc. Now the illegal immigrant. It takes an illegal immigrant probably 3-4 days tops to get into USA and then for him, life is all rosy thanks to ACLU supporters like you. He is guaranteed funds to school education or what not even though he hasnt even spend a single penny in the US to deserve anything. Now do you see what I am saying? For the illegal guy, things are easy and for me, I have to give up 11 years of my life. Why should I do that? I am going to mexico, and then taking a trek to become a citizen.

Do you see how easy it is to abuse the system? We have two potential candidates with absolutely unequal qualifications and still the undeserving one gets the easy way out. I have absolutely no problems with people who have higher or better education or other needed skills taking my spot. But to have person like the illegal immigrant take my place? What happens if the US government grants him citizenship and tells me to get the f*ck out of the country? Thats justice right? I am sure you would think so

Now does it have any coherence? Or do you want me to explain each sentence and what it has to do with the next sentence?

Edit: for "coherence"

 

[BiggieC]

Originally posted by: sancho
<<---- Made in USA by illegal aliens

The fact of the matter is that in most cases, the argument cannot be made that illegal aliens are "sapping" the US economy by leeching off welfare and demanding freebies from the feds. Most places that hire illegals do so quite knowingly, yet at the same time require some kind of social security/ID, whether fake or real to keep it all looking legit on paper. They do collect taxes from these people, and since the illegal worker tries to stay under the radar, he/she does not usually file taxes at the end of the year. Now before you use this as another reason to ship them all out of here in boxcars, think about it... these people are not making six-figure incomes where they would end up owing taxes at the end of the year. Quite the contrary, they would most likely receive a refund, but since they don't file, guess what: Uncle Sam keeps the cash.
Most people that come here illegally come to work and make a better life for themselves and their family. I can't remember the last time I saw a Mexican illegal panhandling for some spare change, but I can tell you of many streets around here where seemingly able-bodied legal residents are holding up "Will work for food" signs and yet won't make an effort to get a real job. I can almost bet you that if you offered them a job cutting grass and trimming trees, they'd flat out turn you down, you see it's a much easier way to earn a living if all you do is sit on some intersection. You've got to admit, the jobs the illegal immigrant will take are far from dream jobs, and would most likely go unfilled or cost a hell of a lot more to get done were it not for them.

I think I'll end my rant now, get off my soapbox, etc... I just wanted to inject a little reason into the argument. Take it as you will.

Of course they take the low skilled jobs no one else wants, that is all they are qualified to do. What makes you think there is an endless supply of housekeeping and lettuce picking jobs? No one doubts there is a need for cheape labor (Mexicans), but in moderation.

 

[calbear2000]

Originally posted by: sancho
<<---- Made in USA by illegal aliens

The fact of the matter is that in most cases, the argument cannot be made that illegal aliens are "sapping" the US economy by leeching off welfare and demanding freebies from the feds. Most places that hire illegals do so quite knowingly, yet at the same time require some kind of social security/ID, whether fake or real to keep it all looking legit on paper. They do collect taxes from these people, and since the illegal worker tries to stay under the radar, he/she does not usually file taxes at the end of the year. Now before you use this as another reason to ship them all out of here in boxcars, think about it... these people are not making six-figure incomes where they would end up owing taxes at the end of the year. Quite the contrary, they would most likely receive a refund, but since they don't file, guess what: Uncle Sam keeps the cash.
Most people that come here illegally come to work and make a better life for themselves and their family. I can't remember the last time I saw a Mexican illegal panhandling for some spare change, but I can tell you of many streets around here where seemingly able-bodied legal residents are holding up "Will work for food" signs and yet won't make an effort to get a real job. I can almost bet you that if you offered them a job cutting grass and trimming trees, they'd flat out turn you down, you see it's a much easier way to earn a living if all you do is sit on some intersection. You've got to admit, the jobs the illegal immigrant will take are far from dream jobs, and would most likely go unfilled or cost a hell of a lot more to get done were it not for them.

I think I'll end my rant now, get off my soapbox, etc... I just wanted to inject a little reason into the argument. Take it as you will.

Good post.

One of the only rational ones in this thread that asks a seemingly innocent question, and deserves an equally simple answer:

No, the illegal immigrants should not be given free college education at the expense of American taxpayers. Yet people seem to have the need to spew their incoherent ignorance.

Whenever I need to see how evolutionary backwards some of my fellow Americans are, I just need to do a search for "Mexicans" on an internet forum.

 

[Zebo]

I don't know where you guys are getting the notion these illegals arnt paying any taxes thus arnt entitled to educational grants. Every illegal I know has to post thier social security number on thier employment forms and must partake of state, fed, medicare and ss withholding because thier employer withholds it each month. Plus thier employer matches SS. Sure they use a fake number, change jobs every year before it catches them, but all must pay. Heck they overpay compared to me and other legals because they never file a return so the treasury simlpy keeps thier monies in excess. So in short they are paying thier fair share and are not going to recieve anything like legals are.

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: BiggieC
Q]

I, however, disagree with the comments that go overboard - and there are plenty of those right here in this thread 🙁

Who are you to say what is going overboard, and why should it be of any concern to anyone not to offend you.
I am to say it - I don't expect anyone else to say it on my behalf. If it offends me, I make it known. If you don't want to hear about it, ignore it. Anyone can willingly choose to offend me if that's what makes their day. I could offend them right back, tell them that they are offending me, cry over it or plain ignore it. I chose the second option, which seemed reasonable enough to me. Was there a particular way in which you expected me to respond?

No one is using rascist slurs or comments. People are concerned about illegal immigration, and much of that immigration is coming from a specific race.

I didn't accuse anyone of being racist - just xenophobic. And that inference was made from posts that made claims like "imagrants are becoming moochers".

You, like many others, are too afraid of hurting anyones feelings or saying something that may offend someone, even if it is how you feel. Unfortunately there are a lot of people like you who can't sack up and take tough stances on tough issues. You too concerned with wording and pleasing everyone. There are people that get offended in every arguement, so the hell what.

Not really. For one, I don't think it could hurt to be a little more diplomatic, especially if it will lend credibility to your genuine expression of grievances. Secondly, it is extremely discouraging to people who rise above the ordinary when insenstive people club them right back with the rest of the pack. Sure you can crib about what irks you - I do that all the time. But to let it become an outlet for pent-up frustrations is plain wrong. Some of the posts in this thread were doing just that - talking about what percentage of latinos population was there in school, how immigrants stop in the middle of an intersection - what the heck was that? :Q A tough stance on a tough issue? BS.

 

[BiggieC]

And that inference was made from posts that made claims like "imagrants are becoming moochers".
.

I didnt make that post, but how about ""many"imagrants are becoming moochers". Hopefully the technicality of "many" makes that post a little more "diplomatic" to you, regardless, it is the truth.